Highest placer per ihswca class?

[AC Computer]

once again I will ask... is the number of wrestlers 1A schools enter into the tournament and the amount of placers proportional to the numbers that 2A and 3A enter and place....

I don't have all of the spreadsheets, but here are some numbers for the FW Semi-State (Note a wrestler with < 10 matches before sectional who did not advance is counted as NONE so the entries are a little low):

 

[table]

Class# Schools# Entries# NONEQualifier U/S/TPlacers U/S/T% Qualified U/S/T% Placed U/S/T

3A19234325/20/253/10/1310.75.6

2A273225613/12/256/5/117.83.4

1A272671112/4/60/0/02.20

[/table]

 

Some things jump out. There are a lot more NONE values in class 1A. Seniors are mor likely to advance in 1A and 3A, but 2A was about even this year.

[maddoxrs]

Take our single class state champions, and I'd say most state champions from the smaller classes in other states beat us. They must be doing something right with their "regional qualifiers".

 

I completely disagree with your statement and your overall argument. You think the main reason that Indiana is not as good as Pennsylvania is they have class wrestling? By that crazy logic we would never be as good as Pennsylvania anyways because our Population is 6 million to their 12 million. When you throw in a state like Iowa which only has 3 million it makes the argument look even more ridiculous.

When no other factors are involved you will statistically have more talented wrestlers from a big school. When you add in all the factors that actually matter like coaching, culture, and wrestling knowledge that is when you see differences. Look at Indianapolis North Central (No offense to any who goes or went there). They are one of the largest schools in the state. How many wrestlers have they had at state in the past 10 years?

You guys think there is a quick easy answer to solving the problem as why people are better than us. I will tell you that the same thing that made wrestling great in every other state is coaches that put time in with wrestlers, getting lots of young kids to come out and stick with it, building a wrestling culture, and hard work.

 

 

[KarlHungus]

involved you will statistically have more talented wrestlers from a big school. When you add in all the factors that actually matter like coaching, culture, and wrestling knowledge that is when you see differences. Look at Indianapolis North Central (No offense to any who goes or went there). They are one of the largest schools in the state. How many wrestlers have they had at state in the past 10 years?

 

17 qualifiers and 10 placers at NC since 2004

22 qualifiers and 4 placers from Adams Central since 2004

[fearless fly]

AC and OTR, your stats are for the hypothetical 3 class system... I read more about the hypothetical 2 class lately and wondered if you had those numbers

[kevinl]

I believe that Heritage is a 2A school.

 

If so Lovejoy placed higher than Campbell from Yorktown.

[maligned]

once again I will ask... is the number of wrestlers 1A schools enter into the tournament and the amount of placers proportional to the numbers that 2A and 3A enter and place....

 

I posted this when you originally asked the question.  The answer is, no, it is not proportional.  The rate of success for entrants is progressively much lower as you go down the classes.  Not sure if you saw this:

 

Quote from: AJ on February 21, 2014, 08:10:19 AM

 

    My question after looking at this data is if the data is proportional to the number of kids wrestling.

 

    The majority of 3A schools fill their lineup... In 2A there are les teams with a full lineup... And in 1A there is even more teams that do not have a full lineup...

 

    So if there are less wrestlers in 1A then shouldn't they have less state qualifiers than 3A or 2A?

 

    1A and 2A teams that consistently have full lineups tend to perform well and have some state qualifiers and placers on a regular basis ( Adams Central, Yorktown, South Adams, Jay County, Garrett, etc..)

 

    Is it all proportional ?

 

Total sectional participants per class (not including a handful of participants with less than 10 matches wrestled and not placing top 6 at sectional):

 

3A: 1301 (21% of these advance to 2nd round of semi-state)

104 schools; 12.5 per lineup

 

2A: 1160 (12% of these to 2nd round of semi-state)

104 schools; 11.2 per lineup

 

1A: 945  (4% of these to 2nd round of semi-state)

105 schools; 9.0 per lineup

(late addition of Madison Shawe)

[littlevito]

I completely disagree with your statement and your overall argument. You think the main reason that Indiana is not as good as Pennsylvania is they have class wrestling? By that crazy logic we would never be as good as Pennsylvania anyways because our Population is 6 million to their 12 million. When you throw in a state like Iowa which only has 3 million it makes the argument look even more ridiculous.

When no other factors are involved you will statistically have more talented wrestlers from a big school. When you add in all the factors that actually matter like coaching, culture, and wrestling knowledge that is when you see differences. Look at Indianapolis North Central (No offense to any who goes or went there). They are one of the largest schools in the state. How many wrestlers have they had at state in the past 10 years?

You guys think there is a quick easy answer to solving the problem as why people are better than us. I will tell you that the same thing that made wrestling great in every other state is coaches that put time in with wrestlers, getting lots of young kids to come out and stick with it, building a wrestling culture, and hard work.

 

 

 

Did I say that the only answer is class wrestling? I don't think so.

[bonehead63]

As much as some of us may not like to admit it, this thread is pretty good evidence for class wrestling. kids from 1A schools are having very little success at the state tournament.

 

Let me get this straight. This is evidence that we should have class wrestling? Because schools with a very small enrollment are not well represented in the state finals? To me, if this is fact...... That wrestlers from small schools make up a smaller percentage of competitors in the state finals tournament, simply because they attend schools that have a smaller student population............if that is fact.... then this whole arguement is absolutely redundant. Because, simply, since they make up such a small portion of the state athlete body, as compared to their counterparts (or larger schools) that take up a much higher percentage of the state student population....... then of course there will be less athletes from the smaller schools competiting. This is one sport where the playing field is level. If your school is smaller, and you feel at a disadvantage, then we will make it a little easier for you Johnny! heck NO! That is the exact attitude that erodes character in perseverance and would make a mockery of wrestling as a sport! I just do not see how anyone, especially a coach, that would support class individual wrestling in Indiana. To me , a coach who supports class wrestling, truely does not have the best interest of the athletes at heart. Maybe we should have another championship too.... for all the kids from the big schools that may heve 2, 3 maybe even 4 wrestlers ahead of them and cannot crack the lineup because their school has 2000 boys. Some kids may go to small schools, but at least they have a spot in the lineup!

[Fabio Jr.]

Let me get this straight. This is evidence that we should have class wrestling? Because schools with a very small enrollment are not well represented in the state finals? To me, if this is fact...... That wrestlers from small schools make up a smaller percentage of competitors in the state finals tournament, simply because they attend schools that have a smaller student population............if that is fact.... then this whole arguement is absolutely redundant. Because, simply, since they make up such a small portion of the state athlete body, as compared to their counterparts (or larger schools) that take up a much higher percentage of the state student population....... then of course there will be less athletes from the smaller schools competiting. This is one sport where the playing field is level. If your school is smaller, and you feel at a disadvantage, then we will make it a little easier for you Johnny! heck NO! That is the exact attitude that erodes character in perseverance and would make a mockery of wrestling as a sport! I just do not see how anyone, especially a coach, that would support class individual wrestling in Indiana. To me , a coach who supports class wrestling, truely does not have the best interest of the athletes at heart. Maybe we should have another championship too.... for all the kids from the big schools that may heve 2, 3 maybe even 4 wrestlers ahead of them and cannot crack the lineup because their school has 2000 boys. Some kids may go to small schools, but at least they have a spot in the lineup!

 

So all the Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illiniois, Michigan, New York, Wisconsin State Champs have "eroded character in perseverance and made a mockery of wrestling as a sport." Because based off their performance at the next level they are much better than us at the moment.

[bonehead63]

So all the Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illiniois, Michigan, New York, Wisconsin State Champs have "eroded character in perseverance and made a mockery of wrestling as a sport." Because based off their performance at the next level they are much better than us at the moment.

 

You should be a politician! Statistical convo, immediately feeding crow. The population of all those states, except wiscosin, are way larger than indiana. new york 19million, illinois and pennsylvania 12 million, ohio and michigan 9 million. ok, Indiana. do we really need class wrestling? I believe it would lower the bar, and ruin the best event tha IHSAA has going. 

[littlevito]

You should be a politician! Statistical convo, immediately feeding crow. The population of all those states, except wiscosin, are way larger than indiana. new york 19million, illinois and pennsylvania 12 million, ohio and michigan 9 million. ok, Indiana. do we really need class wrestling? I believe it would lower the bar, and ruin the best event tha IHSAA has going.

 

Is the only reason it is the best event because of a parade and spotlight?

[mtv2112]

Is the only reason it is the best event because of a parade and spotlight?

 

Of course,  I think the video below says it all.  It's a slow build up so be patient.

 

[KarlHungus]

You should be a politician! Statistical convo, immediately feeding crow. The population of all those states, except wiscosin, are way larger than indiana. new york 19million, illinois and pennsylvania 12 million, ohio and michigan 9 million. ok, Indiana. do we really need class wrestling? I believe it would lower the bar, and ruin the best event tha IHSAA has going. 

 

As long as the population of the state is greater than Indiana, it does not make a mockery to class, Indiana size or smaller = mockery.  Is that what we are to gather.

[Fabio Jr.]

WE ARE LOOKING AT YOU MARYLAND YOU DIRTY CHARACTER DESTROYING JERK!

[jchas]

  My kids go to a big school.  Here is what I think the single biggest difference between sports at big school and a

small school.  The  completion to make a team at a big school makes it very difficult to play multiple sports.

I would say kids at large schools participle in one sport year round at a much higher rate than smaller schools.

Kids at smaller schools probably participle in multiple sports during the season.  I even know of kids that can do

multiple sports during the same season.  That would never happen at a large school.

 

[kevinl]

  My kids go to a big school.  Here is what I think the single biggest difference between sports at big school and a small school.  The  completion to make a team at a big school makes it very difficult to play multiple sports.

I would say kids at large schools participle in one sport year round at a much higher rate than smaller schools.

Kids at smaller schools probably participle in multiple sports during the season.  I even know of kids that can do multiple sports during the same season.  That would never happen at a large school.

Jchas,

Great point.  Sam has only wrestled two tournaments off season since 6th grade due to other sports (although his IS committing himself to put in more effort for his senior year) in part due to other sports.

 

However I think there is an even bigger difference, also tied to competition, and that is wrestling partners.

 

I love Sam's teammates.  They work hard and have a ton of heart (most of the time) and I would be hard pressed to find a better group of guys for him to be with, but when it comes to wrestling partners in practice it is really tough to find someone to push him.

 

I think, at least for Sam, that his best competition SHOULD BE from one weight up, one weight down, then two weights up for a good combination of speed and strength.

 

For Example, Jack had great partners over all.  Based on the finals of sectionals your 120, 132, and 138 had a combined record of 48-16.  Based on the kids that actually wrestled 126, 138, and 145 Sam's equivalents had a combined record of 15-68 (there were also some forfeits in there both wins and losses.)

 

We had one reserve that bounced between weights to take matches when their were forfeits or kids who did not make weight.  His only wins were those forfeits.  So Sam wrestled with coaches (old guys  ) or the 152 pounder.  None of them matched the speed that he saw in matches.

 

But honestly that is what we (Sam and Tony before him) love about a single class individual tournament.  You can overcome many things if you have the right kid and the right coaches (in the past even if you did not have the right coaches) and you can still make a name for yourself at Banker's Life.

[BlackshirtD]

The small state class at Fargo was intense last year.. Those Rhode Island kids brought it and dominated 1A last year there..Just stinks that Indiana has 500,000 more people than Missouri We could have really contended for that 2A title... then we would have shown the country that we have arrived...I mean we can't compete with Illinois, Penns., Ohio and Michigan..They have waay more kids. So if we can drop to 2A nationally and win it ...then that will in turn grow the sport in Indiana even more because now more kids in rural Indiana who can barely support the cost of purchasing a mat and the stipend for the wrestling coach that never wrestled and wears cowboy boots to practice..man they will flock to the wrestling rooms that there schools don't even have yet..and totally change the culture of the town..Folks that won't drive the 15 miles to a Friday night football game or basketball game will suddenly find themselves getting in their cars and driving to see this new sport of wrestling that they were just introduced to by the wild popularity of Indiana being the best 2A wrestling state in the Nation.