fearless fly Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 first off, I can understand both sides of the argument. all I know is this has been the subject of debate for eons and it wasn't that long ago there were wrestlebacks at regionals and there was a lot A LOT of complaining about how long the tournament was...so here we are...again sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Not possible, smiley lost to the 2nd place kid. That kid will wrestle the person who beat Johnson in the 2nd round. Very slight chance...Smiley didn't lose to the first place kid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICfan Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Very slight chance...Smiley didn't lose to the first place kid! No but Johnson did. The 2nd place kid from smileys sectional goes against the first place kid in Johnsons sectional in the semifinals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICfan Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 That being said, I agree there should be wrestle backs in regionals. One bad match should not end a kids season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 No but Johnson did. The 2nd place kid from smileys sectional goes against the first place kid in Johnsons sectional in the semifinals Johnson lost to first place kid. Smiley lost to second place kid (different sectional) but not the first place kid in his sectional. Slight chance...lol You and maligned are probably right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 That being said, I agree there should be wrestle backs in regionals. One bad match should not end a kids season. And the fact is, it's the only way to insure the 4 best wrestler move on and any argument debating that is weak. All because a bunch of crybabies want to complain that it takes a little longer. Boohoo. Go get some cheese with that wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICfan Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Again no chance, because those two wrestle in the semifinals, but I still agree that there should be wrestle backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Again no chance, because those two wrestle in the semifinals, but I still agree that there should be wrestle backs. I agree there should always be wrestle backs anyone can have one little mistake and end it all with no chance to redeem themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenTheory Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 This is why Indiana is so far behind all the other top notch states. Wrestle-backs are very overlooked. They ensure that the best kids advance, not some 4 that loses to a 1. Wrestle-backs to 5th are pointless, wrestle-backs to 3rd after losing in the first round aren't. Last year there were State Qualifiers that didn't get out of Regionals due to the pointless 5th place wrestle-back. The solution is simple and it wouldn't take much longer than it already does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 This is why Indiana is so far behind all the other top notch states. Wrestle-backs are very overlooked. They ensure that the best kids advance, not some 4 that loses to a 1. Wrestle-backs to 5th are pointless, wrestle-backs to 3rd after losing in the first round aren't. Last year there were State Qualifiers that didn't get out of Regionals due to the pointless 5th place wrestle-back. The solution is simple and it wouldn't take much longer than it already does. Listen, I'm all for wrestlebacks in a general sense. I'm needling you guys a little bit because I think there's an overemphasis by people on the need for wrestlebacks at the regional level. I'm not sure how you're not seeing that two kids that collectively finished behind THREE people aren't wrestling to show who the 4th and 5th best wrestlers are; but whatever the case, I would be happy with wrestlebacks being added at any level of the tournament. The real need by far, in my opinion, is for wrestlebacks at the semi-state level. At regional, ALL first round matches put two guys against each other that collectively finished behind 3 other guys the week before. The loser of any of those matches doesn't have a mathematical justification for saying "i didn't even get a chance to prove I should advance." However, at semi-state, in almost 60% of the weight classes, we do NOT end up with the best 4 kids having a chance to advance without running into each other first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyho Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 At crown point @160 Escobedo vs Dax jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donniebaker Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hey just win, or for some don't lose. I hate that we are in a time where everybody "is a winner". No no no your not there are winners and losers. Sometimes you need to realize your not as good and need to get better. The Regional draw is not a secret so you know what you are in for. Quit making a case for "more" chances to move on. It's 29-0 are the Broncos better than what they are playing, yes, but they only get one chance!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ds Dad Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Okay I know I'll catch some stuff here, but sit back and think about this for a minute. When these kids grow up and are in real life situations how often do they get a wrestle back? If they are in sales and go on a sales call, do they get a wrestle back if they blow their presentation? If they work on a factory floor and make a bad run of product does the company get a wrestle back when they are sued because their product hurt people? If a doctor or a nurse kills a patient by giving them a medicine they are allergic to do they get a wrestle back to bring that patient back to life? If a soldier calls in the wrong coordinates for an airstrike that kills not only themselves, but also takes the lives of his squad, do they get a wrestle back so that no one is dead in the end? These could all be an example of a small mistake made with huge consequences, I know these examples are extreme, but this sport teaches kids how to not only compete, but how to live life, to compete in life and how to succeed. Losses and failure are lessons in life that we all need. That make us better people by learning through these failures. If we take those lessons away from kids we make a weaker next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Okay I know I'll catch some stuff here, but sit back and think about this for a minute. When these kids grow up and are in real life situations how often do they get a wrestle back? If they are in sales and go on a sales call, do they get a wrestle back if they blow their presentation? If they work on a factory floor and make a bad run of product does the company get a wrestle back when they are sued because their product hurt people? If a doctor or a nurse kills a patient by giving them a medicine they are allergic to do they get a wrestle back to bring that patient back to life? If a soldier calls in the wrong coordinates for an airstrike that kills not only themselves, but also takes the lives of his squad, do they get a wrestle back so that no one is dead in the end? These could all be an example of a small mistake made with huge consequences, I know these examples are extreme, but this sport teaches kids how to not only compete, but how to live life, to compete in life and how to succeed. Losses and failure are lessons in life that we all need. That make us better people by learning through these failures. If we take those lessons away from kids we make a weaker next generation. Wrong thread! Were talking about wrestling. Donnie, I just typed that right to his face. I swear to god I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICfan Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Okay I know I'll catch some stuff here, but sit back and think about this for a minute. When these kids grow up and are in real life situations how often do they get a wrestle back? If they are in sales and go on a sales call, do they get a wrestle back if they blow their presentation? If they work on a factory floor and make a bad run of product does the company get a wrestle back when they are sued because their product hurt people? If a doctor or a nurse kills a patient by giving them a medicine they are allergic to do they get a wrestle back to bring that patient back to life? If a soldier calls in the wrong coordinates for an airstrike that kills not only themselves, but also takes the lives of his squad, do they get a wrestle back so that no one is dead in the end? These could all be an example of a small mistake made with huge consequences, I know these examples are extreme, but this sport teaches kids how to not only compete, but how to live life, to compete in life and how to succeed. Losses and failure are lessons in life that we all need. That make us better people by learning through these failures. If we take those lessons away from kids we make a weaker next generation. With that logic, we should just get rid of wrestle backs from all levels. At sectionals if you don't make it to the semi-finals you should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ds Dad Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Wrong thread! Were talking about wrestling. Donnie, I just typed that right to his face. I swear to god I did. LOL glad you're in my face, but the sports that the kids play are played to teach life lessons to kids so that they are prepared for the decisions that they have to make in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 LOL glad you're in my face, but the sports that the kids play are played to teach life lessons to kids so that they are prepared for the decisions that they have to make in real life. I'm not sure how. Since I graduated and been in the real world, I have never cross faced or spladled anyone at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Spires Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm not sure how. Since I graduated and been in the real world, I have never cross faced or spladled anyone at work. Clearly you didn't pick the right place of employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm not sure how. Since I graduated and been in the real world, I have never cross faced or spladled anyone at work. I did that one time during "team building". Nobody liked Tobey anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinl Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 With that logic, we should just get rid of wrestle backs from all levels. At sectionals if you don't make it to the semi-finals you should be done. It is not quite the same situation. At Sectionals the seeding is not an exact science. Because one kid was misseeded, the whole bracket is off. However at Regionals you have four kids who proved their order the week prior facing four kids who proved their order. So it is a totally different situation. I can see it both ways but not at Regionals, sectionals definitely, and semi-state maybe. But my boys have been on both side of that. The oldest was in the ticket round three times and lost to kids that he should have beaten and watched as kids that he "could have" beaten were advanced. I have also had one that beat kids he should not have but was on that day and might not have made it if there were wrestle backs. One was a spoiler for a ranked senior while another was spoiled by an unranked wrestler his senior year. It just happens sometimes and you get stronger from the experience. When his younger brothers went to State he was the one in the stands at Banker's Life cheering the loudest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I did that one time during "team building". Nobody liked Tobey anyway yea but all HR guys are soul sucking jerks anyway. he deserved it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ds Dad Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm not sure how. Since I graduated and been in the real world, I have never cross faced or spladled anyone at work. I understand that you are trying to have fun with this and so accept it for that. I also believe you understand what I am saying. With that said I think we all know that of all the sports offered to high school students, wrestling is the best to prepare our young men and women who participate in the sport for the real life experiences that they will face in the future. As parents, coaches and fans we are helping prepare young athletes to become more productive members of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICfan Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I've hit Super ducks on Co workers outside of work, does that count? And life can be "misseeded" or unfair, if we are teaching kids lessons, how about strive to overcome the nonfairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Imagine if every playoff had some sort of "wrestle backs", where does it end? Champship matches go best 2 out of 3, oops no wrong kid won let's make it 3 out of 5, oops wrong wrestler still won let's make it 4 out of 7! That's why you learn to rise to the occasion and the thrill of the upsets! Most people enjoy rooting for the underdog! Where does the insanity end!! Apparently at some regionals and at semi state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Imagine if every playoff had some sort of "wrestle backs", where does it end? Champship matches go best 2 out of 3, oops no wrong kid won let's make it 3 out of 5, oops wrong wrestler still won let's make it 4 out of 7! That's why you learn to rise to the occasion and the thrill of the upsets! Most people enjoy rooting for the underdog! Where does the insanity end!! Apparently at some regionals and at semi state! FYI, wrestlebacks have nothing to do with best 2 out of 3. It's a process for placement and, in the case of all other states, for the advancement of the correct group of participants rather than a random group. We're not discussing the best way to determine a champion. We're discussing the best way to slot wrestlers in their appropriate ranking below the champion. This process of needing an appropriate slotting procedure (wrestlebacks) to eliminate randomness in placement is needed at sectional, semi-state, and state. It is not needed to determine the top 4 at regional, except in the previously discussed case of an injury at sectional causing inappropriate seeding for regional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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