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Seed This


BrokenTowelRack

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I completely disagree with you. You seed all three at once, against the same criteria until you have the one seed. The only wrestler w a head to head win gets the 1 seed, because it is the most important criterion.

 

That eliminates A from the argument due to C's win over A, but I'm still not understanding how you are eliminated B from the discussion.  C has no head to head with B just as B has no head to head with C.  So how can you eliminate one wrestler from the other.  In my vies, the answer should be continuing through the rest of the criteria.  Then after the seed it determined start over from the beginning for the next seed.

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Once again, common opponents is the second criterion. If you can't beat any of the 20 kids that he lost to, then you have no claim.

 

But the answer you provided completely skilled common opponents and any other criteria after and just went completely off the head to head answer to say C was over A and then somehow threw out B in the process.  So I'm still not following.

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There is a reason the criteria are in that order.

 

Head to head carries more weight than Win PCT

 

A ticket rounder has earned the right to a seed.

 

Win % is the weakest criterion because it is so meaningless.

 

Through your interpretation , way too much importance is placed on win percentage.

 

Winning percentage is used only if none of the previous criteria were meet, which in the case of B and C (after A was eliminated from discussion) seems to not have been meet.  If any of the other previous criteria shows how to separate B and C then that criteria is used.

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That eliminates A from the argument due to C's win over A, but I'm still not understanding how you are eliminated B from the discussion.  C has no head to head with B just as B has no head to head with C.  So how can you eliminate one wrestler from the other.  In my vies, the answer should be continuing through the rest of the criteria.  Then after the seed it determined start over from the beginning for the next seed.

 

Seeding three wrestlers at once, you give the one seed to the person w highest criterion. Just because not everyone has a h2h doesn't mean you can just skip it.

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Exactly. Beating quality wrestlers is more important than wrestling a weak schedule and going 27-0

 

How can you determine is a weak schedule though based on just the record.  And none of the criteria references strength of schedule to make that determination.  It's only after all the other criteria have been used and as I said in your example B and C have yet to be clearly separated by the earlier criteria so if it falls to win percentage then that is what is needed to determine the seed.

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Winning percentage is used only if none of the previous criteria were meet, which in the case of B and C (after A was eliminated from discussion) seems to not have been meet.  If any of the other previous criteria shows how to separate B and C then that criteria is used.

 

You are eliminating someone before the 1 seed is given. You consider all three wrestlers at once, giving the 1 seed to wrestlers who has most important criteria.

 

You have to reward head to head victories over often inflated, easily manipulated win percentages

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Exactly. Beating quality wrestlers is more important than wrestling a weak schedule and going 27-0

i agree but why is B being tossed aside. They have no common opponents other than the 1h2h.    What if B did have the toughest schedule and was 27-0 and it was A & C that had the cupcake schedules and that's why they had no common opponents yet since A & C had a head 2 head old B gets the shaft. Makes sense to me.
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Seeding three wrestlers at once, you give the one seed to the person w highest criterion. Just because not everyone has a h2h doesn't mean you can just skip it.

 

It's not skipped.  It is used first which eliminated A.  But has no effect on B and C. So after eliminating one wrestler you are down to seeding just two wrestlers.  The first criteria does not fit so you must continue on with the rest of the criteria in order after that to determine their position.

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This logic is so flawed.  Decbell, by your logic, Wrestler C in the below example would be the 1 seed.

 

Wrestler A: 30-1 loss to Wrestler C

Wrestler B: 31-0 has not wrestled A or C or anyone who beat A or C

Wrestler C: 1-30 win over Wrestler A

 

You are ignoring the common opponent criterion which will assuredly come into play in geographically based sectionals.

 

 

If Wrestler C has 30 losses to good wrestlers, and wrestler B has 15 forfeits wins and 15 wins over 15 wins over sub .500 wrestlers, does C not deserve what he earned?

 

You are obviously using an extreme example

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It's not skipped.  It is used first which eliminated A.  But has no effect on B and C. So after eliminating one wrestler you are down to seeding just two wrestlers.  The first criteria does not fit so you must continue on with the rest of the criteria in order after that to determine their position.

 

3 wrestlers for one seed.

 

Whoever has the 1st criteria listed, if he's the only one, gets the 1 seed. It's that simple.

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You are ignoring the common opponent criterion which will assuredly come into play in geographically based sectionals.

 

 

If Wrestler C has 30 losses to good wrestlers, and wrestler B has 15 forfeits wins and 15 wins over 15 wins over sub .500 wrestlers, does C not deserve what he earned?

 

You are obviously using an extreme example

 

You stated he said if all three were going for the one seed H2H dictates C as #1 but if you have a loss to another team in your sectionals you would not be in the hunt for the #1 seed so then it comes down to who is the #1 seed between B and C?  So in determining that then B has edge and then C over A.

 

 

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You stated he said if all three were going for the one seed H2H dictates C as #1 but if you have a loss to another team in your sectionals you would not be in the hunt for the #1 seed so then it comes down to who is the #1 seed between B and C?  So in determining that then B has edge and then C over A.

 

The situation in the original post states that three wrestlers are up for a number one seed. If you only have two wrestlers up for a one, then thr situation simplifies.

 

As BTR stated, the problem lies with schools who wrestle weak schedules with no commons or even no head to heads in their own sectionals

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if it's truly that unknown as to which is actually # 1 then all coaches flip a coin.......odd man is # 1......the remaining two flip, one calls, winner gets 2, loser is 3......friday night lights......it was something like that......lol

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You are ignoring the common opponent criterion which will assuredly come into play in geographically based sectionals.

 

 

If Wrestler C has 30 losses to good wrestlers, and wrestler B has 15 forfeits wins and 15 wins over 15 wins over sub .500 wrestlers, does C not deserve what he earned?

 

You are obviously using an extreme example

 

This may be an extreme example, but I think this makes the situation clearer.  It has to be B, C, A - just by using the the criteria.

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Yes I agree and find it hard to believe not one common opponent is there.  The way I came up with seeds is the way our sectionals and conference and any other tourney i have ever been involved in that seeded have done it. 

 

If all three had arguments for a 1 seed then yes I would go to % but with a loss to another team I think that takes them out of argument unless all three had losses to someone in a H2H.

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The situation in the original post states that three wrestlers are up for a number one seed. If you only have two wrestlers up for a one, then thr situation simplifies.

 

As BTR stated, the problem lies with schools who wrestle weak schedules with no commons or even no head to heads in their own sectionals

 

But, again despite what we may want to happen the criteria does not specify determining strength of schedule.  And in the case of no head to head or common opponents additional criteria are provided.  Wrestlers should not be eliminated just because they don't fit into the first criteria. 

 

The wording of seeding criteria also explains "Coaches should strive to keep open minds when seedings are being decided. The main objective of seeding is to have outstanding wrestlers separated in the brackets so that they will not meet each other until the finals. Seeding shall be based upon the wrestler's proven ability and not upon the desire for unwarranted advantage."  If you have an issue with a weak schedule or dodging head to head matchups to gain an advantage in the seeding then that is the part of the criteria that would be the only thing you could use to address that issue.  And if the majority of the voting coaches in the meeting agree with this determination then something must be determined to solve the dispute between C or B receiving the #1 spot.

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Yes I agree and find it hard to believe not one common opponent is there.  The way I came up with seeds is the way our sectionals and conference and any other tourney i have ever been involved in that seeded have done it. 

 

If all three had arguments for a 1 seed then yes I would go to % but with a loss to another team I think that takes them out of argument unless all three had losses to someone in a H2H.

 

It might be interesting to find out why a wrestler w a loss to a fellow sectional entry was being considered for the 1 seed in the first place....

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So just for clarification Decbell:

 

Wrestler A: 15-15, loss to Wrestler C

Wrestler B: 30-0, has not wrestled Wrestler A or C, or anyone who beat A or C.

Wrestler C: 1-29, win over Wrestler A

 

Wrestler C is the 1 seed?

 

Why would wrestler A be under consideration in the first place?

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