Jayruss Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Only one's we have is Roach and Molloy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 because they arnt a very good program.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayruss Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Just don't see why we can't turn it into one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and sprawl Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 because they arnt a very good program.... What milestones would they have to achieve to be a good program in your opinion? I mean, what does a team have to accomplish during a season in order to be considered a good team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guru Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Coaching. No fan support. No excitement. Fans have to demand a better program. first, you have to have fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Only one's we have is Roach and Molloy Raley has some skills as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and sprawl Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Coaching. No fan support. No excitement. Fans have to demand a better program. first, you have to have fans. pretty vague answer...why do you feel there aren't those things? The duals I have been to in Bloomington have been as well attended as any other college dual I've been to with the exception of Iowa, PSU, Minnesota, or OK St. And the Hoosier crowd has been pretty into it, even in lopsided duals. I.U. might not be on those elite teams levels, but I wouldn't say they aren't a good program as was said above. This past season, they did qualify 5 of their 10 starters to the NCAA's. That is certainly better than most Division 1 programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and sprawl Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Here's some stats to think about with regard to the original question: 2013 NCAA Division I Championships State: All-American by state (finalist)/Champions Pennsylvania (PA): 13 (6)/3 Ohio: 11 (3)/1 California: 7 (2)/1 Illinois: 6 (1) Missouri: 4 Utah: 3 (2) Iowa: 3 (1)/1 Minnesota: 3 (1)/1 Kansas: 3 (1)/1 New York: 2 (1)/1 New Jersey: 2 Florida: 2 Oklahoma: 2 (1)/1 South Dakota: 2 Colorado: 2 Michigan: 2 Vermont: 1 (1) Wisconsin: 1 Washington: 1 Idaho: 1 Louisiana: 1 Delaware: 1 Montana: 1 North Dakota: 1 Georgia: 1 Oregon: 1 Russia: 1 Mongolia: 1 Indiana: 0 Here's stats for 1961-2011 http://mwolverine.com/Top_Wrestling_States.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob 77 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Just don't see why we can't turn it into one Jayruss, Check your PM mailbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I think Goldman wore out his welcome about 10 years ago. Never spoken to anyone in the program who would rant and rave about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Winning 1 Conference Dual in the past 3 seasons in most cases doesnt make you a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and sprawl Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 So now what people say is what makes you a good program??? I though it was results that mattered, which is why Fabio Jr.'s comment initially appears valid. Winning 1 Conference Dual in the past 3 seasons in most cases doesnt make you a good team. What it fails to mention, however, is that I.U. is in the toughest conference in the nation, but perhaps that's what he meant by "in most cases". (Don't get me wrong, I.U. needs to start winning some Big 10 duals, but they still qualified half their starters to the NCAA's and that makes them better than most division 1 teams.) Apparently, no one wants to address the All American stats. So, lets look at some other ways of measuring Indiana high school wrestling. Intermat ranks the top 20 high school wrestler in each weight class for a total of 280 ranked wrestlers. Their current rankings include 9 boys from Indiana. (Though 1 has committed to play football in college.) So Indiana high school wrestlers make up 3% of the ranked wrestlers. I.U. has one of them (Malloy) on his way to Bloomington. Purdue has another. Every question assumes things....it seems to me the question that started this thread makes a pretty big assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGenerealsDad Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 They don't want to - as alluded to by the all-american list above. Unless you are placing in Fargo or other national tournaments, they will value other state's studs over Indiana. Purdue seems to be interested in IN kids but as much as I hope that works out for them, I can't say it really looks promising. Neither IU or Purdue has a good enough coach to get them out of the cellar of the Big 10. My college coach was an Indiana state champ and wrestled at Indiana State and basically laughed when I tried to tell him Indiana had some kids who could help the team. He would rather have kids who were regional placers from PA. I still think he was wrong, but what's stopping Indiana kids from walking on at IU and proving them wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and sprawl Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 .... what's stopping Indiana kids from walking on at IU and proving them wrong? NOTHING and that is the attitude we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 On average teams in the Big 10 should qualify 7 wrestlers for the NCAA tournament. This past year they were given 74 automatic qualifiers and 8 at large bids. That is just under 70% of the starters in the Big 10 getting bids to the NCAA tournament. IU also had to rely on two at large bids for Sheridan and Walsh to make the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Frame it however you like they are not a good program at the moment and recruits are not going to bank on being the "savior" of that program...3 AA's in the last 3 seasons is depressing...until they get some improvement with some lower level recruits the premiere athletes will go to the more recently successful programs and they are going to have to fork out some $$ for those kids because the D2 and D3 programs will find ways to grab those kids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and sprawl Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 On average teams in the Big 10 should qualify 7 wrestlers for the NCAA tournament. This past year they were given 74 automatic qualifiers and 8 at large bids. That is just under 70% of the starters in the Big 10 getting bids to the NCAA tournament. IU also had to rely on two at large bids for Sheridan and Walsh to make the tournament. Which proves that they are a below average Big 10 team, but doesn't prove anything about how they compare nationally or whether they are a "good program". ( and your 7 number is inflated ....74 divided by 12 teams is 6.1....even if you count the 8 at large making it 82 divided by 12 it's 6.8 which you can round to 7 but then it isn't really fair to bash that they had to "rely on the at large bids".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 How is it not fair? ITS A FACT. I dont know what dream world you are living in....Losses to South Dakota State, Northern Illiniois last year not to mention the one Big 10 win against equally mediocre MSU in the 2010-2011 season. Their CLOSEST big 10 Duals this past year were a 17 pt deficit to unranked Michigan and a 16pt deficit to unranked Purdue (those are below average big 10 programs). Any time they wrestled a top 25 team they got SMOKED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Which proves that they are a below average Big 10 team, but doesn't prove anything about how they compare nationally or whether they are a "good program". ( and your 7 number is inflated ....74 divided by 12 teams is 6.1....even if you count the 8 at large making it 82 divided by 12 it's 6.8 which you can round to 7 but then it isn't really fair to bash that they had to "rely on the at large bids".) What are you expectations for the team? What do you think are reasonable and attainable expectations for a school such as Indiana University that is in the heart of the hotbed of wrestling in the country and also offers a great education? Why aren't top recruits from all over the country knocking down the door to come wrestle at IU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julio Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 They need a coach that can recruit and teach the wrestlers, just not worked them into the ground. Angel went there because of Mena and Joey D, 2 great practice partners and people to learn from, as well as Andrae, Jose, and Matt C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 They need a change and it has to start with the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I know people are on here beating themselves up over whether or not IU is a good program or not, but I think you/we all fail to look at the big picture. Does the university really care? Fact is that wrestling is a non-revenue sport. I don't have Goldman's salary in front of me and I'm not going to put a lot of time into looking it up, but I'd bet that it, just like the wrestling team is near the bottom of the Big10. My point being, if those running the university don't care enough about the program, or putting money into improving it, they'll always be a basement dweller. Look, the basketball team has had 3 different coaches, 4 if you count Dan Dakich in the past 10 years because the university and it's alumni found loosing to be unacceptable. I think Indiana as a state has a lot of talented high school wrestlers and those at the top do no consider IU or Purdue, which says a lot(Angel being the exception). I'm not sure that beyond putting money into the program and getting the university to care about the results that you are going to see a change at IU or Purdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwrestler Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Which proves that they are a below average Big 10 team, but doesn't prove anything about how they compare nationally or whether they are a "good program". ( and your 7 number is inflated ....74 divided by 12 teams is 6.1....even if you count the 8 at large making it 82 divided by 12 it's 6.8 which you can round to 7 but then it isn't really fair to bash that they had to "rely on the at large bids".) So you admit that IU is a below average Big 10 team (putting it nicely), but argue that they compare favorably to "mid-major" DI programs. However, the Big 10 comparison is the only one that matters. The only schools that the best of the best Indiana wrestlers are considering are Big 10 schools or other schools on the same competitive level (Big 12, etc.), and the fact remains that in comparison to those schools, IU is not a good program. As an IU student, I don't have any inside information and only follow the team casually, but I will say that I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have heard a positive statement about the head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerHornet Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Indiana University is a basketball hotbed. Its recent history is that of a program in shambles but the name Indiana University is a lot like Alabama football or Michigan football they may have down years but eventually they will consistently be among the nations best. The verdict on Michigan's head coach is still out; however, we have seen what a great coach can do with athletes at Alabama. Nick Saban's the nations best. Most universities just don't care about their wrestling programs; even if they have great success. The reality of it is there are only two revenue generating sports in college athletics at the Division 1 level... Those being mens football and basketball. Even within Division 1 football and basketball only a % of those schools profit. On a micro level only 7 BCS football teams profited. One of which profited heavily due to its contract with NBC. I work for a university that's athletic department is $9,000,000.00 in debt from simply having a Division 1 football team. We have a sub-par basketball team that fortunately breaks even. Bottom line, the only reason many universities keep sports teams around is due to developing a "brand" and has nothing to due with generating revenue from the auxiliary unit of athletics. Wrestling, Baseball, Soccer, Track, and women's sports receive little backing from the universities. That is typical. As far as fan support that doesn't matter either. Ultimately, if you want a better coach at a university the goal is alumni dollars. Its a sad reality. If IU had wealthy alumni that made their donations contingent on updating the wrestling room, increasing the coaches salary, and increase recruiting expenditures then IU would make great strides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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