Y2CJ41 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I vote Jason too, mainly because of how he handled Caldwell last year. Pretty impressive. Jason will definitely get a few D1 titles under his name. People were saying very similar things about his brother at Iowa. No one is a guaranteed NCAA champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwrestler Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 People were saying very similar things about his brother at Iowa. No one is a guaranteed NCAA champion. This is true, but did Alex have the resume that Jason does at this point in his career? Jason just gave the national champ a heck of a match at the Midlands last season, losing 7-5. Of course if he struggles with injury everything changes, but if he stays healthy I don't see how he won't get at least one national title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Didnt alex lose to nate gallick as a true frosh. ..the score was close if i recall and that had the iowa faithful salivating over what the future held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 FYI... 3xer's Jake O’Brien, Franklin Central: 2001, 215; 2002 ,125; 2003, 215. http://www.ihsaa.org/Sports/Boys/Wrestling/StateFinalsRecords/tabid/321/Default.aspx Killer cut for Jake his junior year. I don't blame him for going back up his senior year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob 77 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Indiana's greatest high school wrestler by definition would without doubt would be Lance Ellis! IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob 77 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Killer cut for Jake his junior year. I don't blame him for going back up his senior year. Not to rain on your parade or to take anything from Jake who was one of Indiana's best, but a 189lbs beat Jake a 215lbs both his junior and senior year, and that was Nate Moore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Big Bob his weight comment was in reference to this typo: FYI... 3xer's Jake O’Brien, Franklin Central: 2001, 215; [glow=red,2,300]2002 ,125[/glow]; 2003, 215. I'm not sure today's weight management plan would approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob 77 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Big Bob his weight comment was in reference to this typo: I'm not sure today's weight management plan would approve. [/quote I was only referring to Jake being nominated by the subject manner, I thought Jake was being mentioned as a candidate and I was just pointing out why I didn't think he was worthy of that title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpetty24 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tough question but as far as just in high school folkstyle wrestling...its got to be Lance Ellis. He pinned 85% of his opponents. Angel is the only wrestler with more falls by 5 and he wrestled 50 more matches then Lance did. Which means Lance would of had 180+ pins in his career. And yes I know Alex didnt have the college resume that most thought he would but I cant believe no one has mentioned his name. 236 wins in a row? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYSKY Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 LANCE ELLIS L A N C E E L L I S LLLLLAAAAAANNNNNNCCCCCEEEE EEEELLLLLLLLLIIIISSSSSS LANCE ELLIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Riley McClurg's Mustache gets my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenHeavyHandz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Lance was not the first, but, actually the 4th. Estil Ritter, Bloomington: 1924, 175; 1925, 175; 1926, Hwt.; 1927, Hwt. Willard Duffy, Muncie Central: 1930, l00; 1931, 108; 1932, 115; 1933, 115. Howard Fisher, South Bend Central: 1949, 95; 1950, 112; 1951, 127; 1952, 133. Lance Ellis, Indianapolis Cathedral: 1986, 98; 1987, 105*; 1988, 112; 1989, 119. Blake Maurer, Evansville Mater Dei: 2001, 130; 2002, 145; 2003, 171; 2004, 171. Alex Tsirtsis, Griffith: 2001, 119; 2002, 130; 2003, 135; 2004, 145. Angel Escobedo, Griffith: 2002, 112; 2003, 125; 2004, 130; 2005, 135. Jason Tsirtsis, Crown Point: 2009, 125; 2010, 130; 2011, 140; 2012, 145. http://www.ihsaa.org/Sports/Boys/Wrestling/StateFinalsRecords/tabid/321/Default.aspx I stand corrected. first 4x undefeated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Didnt alex lose to nate gallick as a true frosh. ..the score was close if i recall and that had the iowa faithful salivating over what the future held. If Alex stays healthy his college carrer would have been very different. Not only the injuries, but the timing of those injuries as well. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 My post was in response to remarks made that jason would be a multi time champ and that his result against maple reinforced that....i simply just mentioned a very similar match by his bro. Believe me i hope jason is a national champ....i am impressed by him so much i used a fantasy pick on him last year knowing that he was rs and that my only points would come from midlands....hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Then you can throw in what the accomplishment looked like on paper vs. what the actual circumstances/level of competition was. In some cases studs end up taking out young studs which take a little away from their total accomplishments on paper, but not from the great talent they matured into. Angel beats out Reece to prevent him from being a 4 time state champ, then Reece's beats Andrew (yes Howe was that small once) to prevent him from being a 4 time state champ. From that perspectice its hard not to at least mention guys like Reece or Andrew in a list of top guys even if they were only 3 time champs. Too many variables betweeb generations, competition level, high school season or all styles, in-state vs national accomplishments, lifetime accomplishments vs. in a certain time frame vs one year, to ever narrow it down. Better just to list some big names and how they have contributed to IN national recognition in wrestling. I believe that it is stretching it to say that Reece would have won State at 112, if not for Angel. More likely, he would have won it if not for his own teammate at 103. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 so is the question greatest "high school" wrestler or greatest "overall" wrestler?........if you're going just high school then you about have to roll the 4 timers together and pick from that....... I disagree with this argument. This would be true if we were determining who had the best high school career. It is certainly conceivable that someone could be say Third, Runner up, Champ, Champ and at the end of that last season have been noticeably better than someone who won four championships. Thus the first lad would be the better wrestler, while the second would have had the better career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIME Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Gotta go with Ellis, pretty simple math, he pinned out 85% of the time. The next comment should read who is second, ...Once you set the bar, every swinging person once to go higher...Its Ellis, good luck on the rest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBW2009 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 name a few really good wrestlers that lance ellis beat back in the day and he could be considered. jason has the most remarkable resume due to the fact he has wrestled the best and beat the best! he went after competition didnt avoid it. i was their to see lance win 3 titles, he didnt wrestle anyone great and certainly couldnt compete at the national level. cant expect to beat the best with a headlock or lateral drop! jason is the full package and will win at least 2 national championships if healthy. reece gets my second vote!!! micic a close third!! this kids just gettin started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 name a few really good wrestlers that lance ellis beat back in the day and he could be considered. jason has the most remarkable resume due to the fact he has wrestled the best and beat the best! he went after competition didnt avoid it. i was their to see lance win 3 titles, he didnt wrestle anyone great and certainly couldnt compete at the national level. cant expect to beat the best with a headlock or lateral drop! jason is the full package and will win at least 2 national championships if healthy. reece gets my second vote!!! micic a close third!! this kids just gettin started Very sound reasoning. Lance was one of the greats. During his HS career did he have equal success at the national level? I'll second all three of your choices and your order. I might have to put Sliga up there ahead of LE based on his national performances while in HS. Would a 4xer that hadn't cracked say the top 8 in the national rankings based on his national performances be considered ahead of another that had 2-3 state titles but was consistently top 3 nationally? Being a 4xer is a great feat. But it's not how ya start it's how ya finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Blake Maurer was a 4x who never really had cakewalks. Matt coughin was a very good 2xer, only lost 4 times in high school and won senior nationals and Fargo his senior yr. I'd put both them up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 name a few really good wrestlers that lance ellis beat back in the day and he could be considered. jason has the most remarkable resume due to the fact he has wrestled the best and beat the best! he went after competition didnt avoid it. i was their to see lance win 3 titles, he didnt wrestle anyone great and certainly couldnt compete at the national level. cant expect to beat the best with a headlock or lateral drop! jason is the full package and will win at least 2 national championships if healthy. reece gets my second vote!!! micic a close third!! this kids just gettin started To me, this is like saying that Babe Ruth wasn't as good as today's sluggers because the modern pitchers are more specialized and throw faster. Or that Jim Brown isn't as good of a runner as today's RBs cause the defensive players weren't as big or fast. WITHIN the period that he wrestled, Ellis was dominant like no other. I can't think of a sport where old generation athletes are "better" than modern athletes. I don't, however, think that takes away from their accomplishments. If that were the case, you would have seen many other wrestlers from the 80s with 80% pinning percentages, but to my knowledge they don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 To me, this is like saying that Babe Ruth wasn't as good as today's sluggers because the modern pitchers are more specialized and throw faster. Or that Jim Brown isn't as good of a runner as today's RBs cause the defensive players weren't as big or fast. WITHIN the period that he wrestled, Ellis was dominant like no other. I can't think of a sport where old generation athletes are "better" than modern athletes. I don't, however, think that takes away from their accomplishments. If that were the case, you would have seen many other wrestlers from the 80s with 80% pinning percentages, but to my knowledge they don't exist. I believe that if you were great in one era, you will be great an any other era. If Lance Ellis were given the same training, nutrition and conditioning methods available to today's athlete, he would be dominant still. That being said, my vote still goes to Jason Tsirtsis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenHeavyHandz Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 To me, this is like saying that Babe Ruth wasn't as good as today's sluggers because the modern pitchers are more specialized and throw faster. Or that Jim Brown isn't as good of a runner as today's RBs cause the defensive players weren't as big or fast. WITHIN the period that he wrestled, Ellis was dominant like no other. I can't think of a sport where old generation athletes are "better" than modern athletes. I don't, however, think that takes away from their accomplishments. If that were the case, you would have seen many other wrestlers from the 80s with 80% pinning percentages, but to my knowledge they don't exist. You articulated that point better than I ever could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIME Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 To much short term memory lost for you B. Should of said "no" more often. I Don't see that way B., I am pretty sure Ellis never ran from s***. Your mind is little to foggy, nothing against Jason, or his brother Alex. I bet if you ask those boys, Lance would be on top too, B. Like I said, He set the bar, everyone else had a Goal to shoot for, you know what I mean, B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerline Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Tough question but as far as just in high school folkstyle wrestling...its got to be Lance Ellis. He pinned 85% of his opponents. Angel is the only wrestler with more falls by 5 and he wrestled 50 more matches then Lance did. Which means Lance would of had 180+ pins in his career. And yes I know Alex didnt have the college resume that most thought he would but I cant believe no one has mentioned his name. 236 wins in a row? Got to respectfully disagree. Angel Escobedo would be by far tops due to both his high school and collegiate career and it's not even close. Ellis had an incredible high school feat, and was tough as nails, but Angel had a bit more athleticism. Angel Escobedo - State record holder for Most Pins, 156, Career Record of 223 wins, 4x State Champion College - Angel Escobedo 4x All-American, NCAA finishes of 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 3x Big 10 Champion And he wasn't a little hot-head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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