Fabio Jr. Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 So thats the only rebuttal? Because every kid doesnt want to win the olyimpics, wrestling is worthless and shouldn't be around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestler60160 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Shoot me! My child is heading to Lock Haven in Pennsylvania to compete this weekend . Is there great competition for him in Indiana this weekend? Most likely! We just like to go somewhere else every once in a while. And by the way, there will be 16 teams there......its a Folkstyle tournament in Pennsylvania in the middle of FS/Gr season. So if its an Indiana problem, it looks like the rest of the country might be having the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 i really don't see why you're all arguing about wrestling in state or out....i say go where you can when you can.....there is no doubt that it's nice to get some new competition once in awhile but wrestling local is also "mat time" which is really what it's all about....and as far as folkstyle versus "the other two".....of course folkstyle will always be more popular because it is what this country does......besides the fact that it's much easier for the casual fan to pick up......and i have to agree with what someone said about folkstyle showing who is in most cases the better wrestler and being much more accurate with scoring.......freestyle is so tuff to score when the action is moving quick with both guys tied up.......who has control?......alot of times it's pretty difficult to determine.....it's got that "flippy floppy" factor going......i wouldn't want to be a freestyle ref.......that's gotta be tuff.......i also feel that if a kid spends his whole off season wrestling folkstyle, he will be just as far ahead as if he would have been doing some freestyle and greco.......quality mat time is really what it's all about......not that freestyle and greco would hurt (more knowledge is always good), but i don't see it being a big contributor to their success in high school...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 So thats the only rebuttal? Because every kid doesnt want to win the olyimpics, wrestling is worthless and shouldn't be around? Because your reasoning for not doing freestyle and greco is because kids won't do it past high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 No my reasoning for not doing it is we can get just as much from an out of state folkstyle tournament than we can from an instate freestyle tournament. We get more kids willing to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I would argue that a majority of kids after high school (college if they are lucky) dont have the desire to compete in freestyle or greco. They want to get a job, start a family, pay back their ridiculously high student loans, etc. So why follow it? Probably doesnt help either that they only show the olyimpics to through main stream media outlets and even then its like 4 matches. USAW should try to get replays of the big international tournaments on espn 2 or something. Either way the interest in freestyle is dying. The big names will want to compete in the FILA Nationals and Fargo. But like AJ said I would argue that to a majority of kids winning/placing at the NCAA's is the major goal. EDIT: Curious I checked the Pennsylvania Site and noticed that their numbers for freestyle state are not great as well maybe worst than us...didnt count each individual wrestler. http://usapawf.com/results/states_fs_detail.pdf - 2012 Freestyle State PAWF Please explain the bolded part then where you state that you shouldn't do freestyle is because after graduation no one does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I think the in/out of state has progressed onto Free/greco vs Folk. Consensus seems to be that Merica does folk so it's the best and we are too, so if we are the best and folk is the best then Merican Folksytle wrestling must be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I think the in/out of state has progressed onto Free/greco vs Folk. Consensus seems to be that Merica does folk so it's the best and we are too, so if we are the best and folk is the best then Merican Folksytle wrestling must be the best. So I'm guessing you jumped back on this one when your "Spidey Senses" begin to tingle after Y2 said baking contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I am friends with a young man (young compared to me) named Chris who is 45 years old. He has two boys. Chris is financially successful. Chris only played high school football two seasons. As long as I’ve known Chris (about a decade) he has been crazy about football. Chris is the most convinced and determined parent I have ever met who believes his boys will be professional football players. Despite his lack of knowledge or relatively marginal experience with personally playing football, Chris believes he knows exactly how to build his two sons into football par excellence. He takes his sons all over the country, all year long, to attend ‘professional’ football camps like this one run by the Dallas Cowboys: https://www.footballcamps.com/default.asp?page=00 His boys probably don’t go more than 2-3 weeks without attending some kind of camp put on by some former Pro-Bowl person. Chris takes them to special academies for special training consistently. He home schools them which allows great freedom. Here is one academy they have attended: http://www.testfootballacademy.com/hs_youth_football_training.html Nothing like training a 13 year old for the NFL combine. Having watched his sons for years, I would be willing to bet a very large sum they will not be pro football players. Ever. Not even if the XFL was resurrected. My point: wrestling has now reached the same point that tennis and several other sports have. Without money, you might be screwed. And with money, a person can do plenty of damage to the sporty by inadvertently existing under false pretenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 So I'm guessing you jumped back on this one when your "Spidey Senses" begin to tingle after Y2 said baking contest. I was back in before that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I think many of us who have been and will be involved with wrestling our entire life look at the good of the sport overall. The suggestions we make are based on the overall good of the wrestling community. The problem is we consistently have wrestling short timers with extraordinarily loud voices. These are many overzealous parents masquerading as coaches. They come into the sport of wrestling for ten years while their kid is involved and then leave. They have no interest in the overall sport of wrestling. They only want personal glory for their kid… the rest of the wrestling world be damned. Who cares about that local tourney, right? Screw those local people, my kid needs National attention!!!! It is a level of narcissism that most wrestling lifers are unaccustomed to dealing with because it is the antithesis of the unselfish nature of so many wrestling lifers who are coaches, officials and volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I think many of us who have been and will be involved with wrestling our entire life look at the good of the sport overall. The suggestions we make are based on the overall good of the wrestling community. The problem is we consistently have wrestling short timers with extraordinarily loud voices. These are many overzealous parents masquerading as coaches. They come into the sport of wrestling for ten years while their kid is involved and then leave. They have no interest in the overall sport of wrestling. They only want personal glory for their kid… the rest of the wrestling world be damned. Who cares about that local tourney, right? Screw those local people, my kid needs National attention!!!! It is a level of narcissism that most wrestling lifers are unaccustomed to dealing with because it is the antithesis of the unselfish nature of so many wrestling lifers who are coaches, officials and volunteers. +1...A Wahoo....Thumbs Up...Like...Re-tweet....Favorite'd....Agreed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Please explain the bolded part then where you state that you shouldn't do freestyle is because after graduation no one does it. I find my self agreeing with Fabio on this one. And the post you quoted speaks to why the kids don't follow freestyle/greco, not why they don't participate. And that is why they are not interested in doing it, because they do not follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 After their careers are wrapped up very few follow wrestling at all unless they coach or have a younger relative involved. Some might hear of things through social media or the newspaper, but that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestler60160 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 They usually return about 8 years later with their own 5 year old.... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 And then I get to not only deal with them, I get to deal with their bratty kid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 After their careers are wrapped up very few follow wrestling at all unless they coach or have a younger relative involved. Some might hear of things through social media or the newspaper, but that is it. Right. So we agree, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Right. So we agree, then. What am I agreeing on? That we should be teaching proper lawn mowing techniques and baking skills over wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 MattM: What is our guage for the improvement of depth? Is it competition at Fargo? We can't compete in the big Highschool Tournements. Whats the guage? I think depth best fits into the old saying: I'm not sure how to describe it, but I know what it is when I see it. In my view depth of wrestling talent is not measured by one single factor, but a combination of different items. Every state will have its elite wrestlers, above average wrestlers, medium range wrestlers, and run of the mill wrestlers. I see depth as how well our version of above-average and medium range wrestlers stack up against other states wrestle who they call above-average and medium range. We can look at who is getting wins (not AAing) from national tournaments and Dual meets (most freestyle/greco related due to IHSAA restrictions), who is getting recruited (not just DI), or other such methods. While its not a clear cut thing I believe we can agree that while our elite wrestlers can compete against the top talent in the nations our wrestling depth is lagging somewhat behind several of the other major wrestling states. Now I don't expect to quickly catch up to some of the top states, but I believe we can improve this depth in a lot of ways including providing enough off-season competition for them to sharpen these skills. When the competition is not readily promoted or available these medium range and above-average guys don't always get the time in they need where the elite guys are at a level where they have the drive and money to search farther for the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 I re read said bolded part multpile number of times and i must be missing something because no where does it say you shouldn't do it. I would argue that a majority of kids after high school (college if they are lucky) dont have the desire to compete in freestyle or greco. They want to get a job, start a family, pay back their ridiculously high student loans, etc. So why follow it? I said kids dont have the desire to wrestle it. They would rather get better at folkstyle. So they say why would I wrestle at a Local Freestyle tournament when i can go to this folkstyle tournament in Illinois. You can argue it contends against burnout but we dont work on any international styles and we still have 30-40 kids (2 returning semi-state qualifers and 2 regional qualifiers) showing up 2-3 times a week and wrestling at the folkstyle portions of Ironmen tournments. Mind you we were told how none of these kids would show up in the offseason regardless by the previous coaching staff yet here we are 2 weeks before the last "major" ISWA event and we are still pulling in great numbers. These local vs out of state argument didnt come in during the folkstyle season yet its freestyle time and numbers die. It's not a secret what the common denominator is kids dont want to wrestle freestyle so they go to other avenues to get that competition (Acadamies, Out-of-State tournamnets, etc..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 What am I agreeing on? That we should be teaching proper lawn mowing techniques and baking skills over wrestling? Oh, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestlingfan182 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I think you should go where your wrestler wants to go, wherever they feel comfortable .To be the best you have to wrestle top competition and most the time the toughest competition happens to be in one of our surrounding states.Still support local tournaments state ect. but I always liked the tournaments in Ohio. ,Illinois , Michigan . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachi123 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Just to throw some numbers out there..... At the Connersville RTC tonite we had 26 wrestlers from 5 area schools. 8 of them will be going with me to Center Grove. 4 will be going to Columbus East. The other kids who did the Folkstyle portion of the ISWA season have decided to only wrestle at the local RTC. I asked those 14 kids what made them choose to not do the freestyle tourneys. 1. They liked practicing the freestyle but did not want to pay or possible waste anyone's time(parents,coaches) with double dipping. Folkstyle only 2. Other sports or plans So will those kids not wrestling make or break indiana wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 So maybe by RTC's showing folkstyle....that is having a negative effect on freestyle in Indiana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Sure why not, so continuing training in the main style of wrestling in the country we are killing wrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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