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headlock83

Glad I Didn't Have To Make The Call

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This has probably already been mentioned on other threads but man I am glad I wasn't the ref in the match between Molloy and Walker last night.  It was a crappy dirty rotten shame that either boy had to lose that match.  I replayed the last 5 seconds over and over in my head and dang it seemed too close to tell.  I would love to see a video replay with the clock.  From where I sat, that call could have gone either way.  I don't have a horse in this race, but darn I felt bad for the Yorktown boy, who handled the situation with class and grace.  His parents should be proud.  Not sure I would have been so understanding if it were me.  To go from thinking you just won a state title to sorry we changed our minds is a bitter pill to swallow.  I know that using video replay in wrestling at the high school level would never be implemented and in my opinion should never be implemented on a regular basis.  However, maybe in the state championships at the semi final and final rounds it could be used.  I know the intent of high school sports is to build character and to teach sportsmanship and to respect the decision of the officials.  But man, we want to get it right too.  From an outsider's perspective I think the officials did a fantastic job.  I just wouldn't have wanted to make that call.  Try to be positive about the officials, but what do you guys think about that call.  Did they get it right?  Sorry in advance if I just repeated a thread that someone else has already started.

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I think they got the call right and did a good job reffing all night. However I don’t think you should raise a kids hand until all of the discussion is complete. To me, when the hand is raised it’s done, especially in a State Finals Match.

Great Sportsmanship by both kids

 

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yes its a tough call but they got it right. The time was out and he had no control his head was burried and he only had 1 leg, he would have needed atleast another 5 seconds to score it. But regardless great match. Isn't that what we go to the State finals to  watch?

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I watched the video.  It was not a takedown yet.  I love the firemans.  And it is never a takedown until you pop your head out.  Great firemans though I would suggest grabbing lower on the leg and throwing the opponent more away from you so that the head doesn't get stuck.

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This has probably already been mentioned on other threads but man I am glad I wasn't the ref in the match between Molloy and Walker last night.  It was a crappy dirty rotten shame that either boy had to lose that match.  I replayed the last 5 seconds over and over in my head and dang it seemed too close to tell.  I would love to see a video replay with the clock.  From where I sat, that call could have gone either way.  I don't have a horse in this race, but darn I felt bad for the Yorktown boy, who handled the situation with class and grace.  His parents should be proud.  Not sure I would have been so understanding if it were me.  To go from thinking you just won a state title to sorry we changed our minds is a bitter pill to swallow.  I know that using video replay in wrestling at the high school level would never be implemented and in my opinion should never be implemented on a regular basis.  However, maybe in the state championships at the semi final and final rounds it could be used.  I know the intent of high school sports is to build character and to teach sportsmanship and to respect the decision of the officials.  But man, we want to get it right too.  From an outsider's perspective I think the officials did a fantastic job.  I just wouldn't have wanted to make that call.  Try to be positive about the officials, but what do you guys think about that call.  Did they get it right?  Sorry in advance if I just repeated a thread that someone else has already started.

 

I agree the ref got the call right but to raise his hand then take the points way was horrible.  To tell a young man he just won state and take it away?  Cruel...good call from what I seen.

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I agree the ref got the call right but to raise his hand then take the points way was horrible.  To tell a young man he just won state and take it away?  Cruel...good call from what I seen.

 

I can agree with that.  Absolutely heart breaking.

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To clarify, control was not the issue and never came up. It was ruled no takedown because time had run out.

 

Hmmm... I thought control was always the issue when it comes to takedowns. 

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That was a great fireman by Walker, but it was ABSOLUTELY NOT a takedown.  The official got caught up in the moment when he signaled 2.  It wasn't a takedown strictly because it was right at the buzzer and his arm was still caught in between Molloy's legs and his head wasn't out yet.

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This has probably already been mentioned on other threads but man I am glad I wasn't the ref in the match between Molloy and Walker last night.  It was a crappy dirty rotten shame that either boy had to lose that match.  I replayed the last 5 seconds over and over in my head and dang it seemed too close to tell.  I would love to see a video replay with the clock.  From where I sat, that call could have gone either way.  I don't have a horse in this race, but darn I felt bad for the Yorktown boy, who handled the situation with class and grace.  His parents should be proud.  Not sure I would have been so understanding if it were me.  To go from thinking you just won a state title to sorry we changed our minds is a bitter pill to swallow.  I know that using video replay in wrestling at the high school level would never be implemented and in my opinion should never be implemented on a regular basis.  However, maybe in the state championships at the semi final and final rounds it could be used.  I know the intent of high school sports is to build character and to teach sportsmanship and to respect the decision of the officials.  But man, we want to get it right too.  From an outsider's perspective I think the officials did a fantastic job.  I just wouldn't have wanted to make that call.  Try to be positive about the officials, but what do you guys think about that call.  Did they get it right?  Sorry in advance if I just repeated a thread that someone else has already started.

 

I absolutely agree, Walker handled it with the utmost class. That's something that shows the character of this young man, just terrific. Isaiah Bradley also handled losing in OT to a questionable call very well, only accepting the situation and congratulating both Corsaro and Farrell.

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I just watched replay,  and very tough call but I could see control right at the buzzer.  I think walker had the takedown.

Since when is having one leg control, one arm and your head buried control?

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Since when is having one leg control, one arm and your head buried control?

 

I reffed 8 years, so I'm not a novice on this one.    Its a fireman, not a double so you don't need both legs.  He stopped his motion and used the one leg to keep him in position thus demonstrating control.  His head was buried in chest  and was used to control Malloy from moving and putting him on his back, thus demonstrating control.  Control of the arm, what more could you ask for.    He had this right before the buzzer so  the only argument would have been would have Malloy with his reaction maybe  would of scrambled/rolled/scooted to a point to not demonstrate control.  If he would of framed the postition they ended in for two more seconds, I think most refs would of called that a TD.

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I reffed 8 years, so I'm not a novice on this one.    Its a fireman, not a double so you don't need both legs.  He stopped his motion and used the one leg to keep him in position thus demonstrating control.  His head was buried in chest  and was used to control Malloy from moving and putting him on his back, thus demonstrating control.  Control of the arm, what more could you ask for.    He had this right before the buzzer so  the only argument would have been would have Malloy with his reaction maybe  would of scrambled/rolled/scooted to a point to not demonstrate control.  If he would of framed the postition they ended in for two more seconds, I think most refs would of called that a TD.

Couple things:

1. Don't go off the clock on the screen, go by the clock that is mat side. The clock on the screen is about a second to two seconds off at some points. 

Here is a picture of the action with .1 second left on the clock.  A lot would have had to happen in that tenth of a second for it to become a takedown.

Molloy.1.JPG

 

2. Are you trying to tell me that since this was a "single leg" move that he only has to demonstrate control with one leg? Does that mean if I do any other type of single leg move I only have to control one leg to get a takedown?

 

3. His head was buried and would have needed to come to either side for a takedown to be called.

 

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Couple things:

1. Don't go off the clock on the screen, go by the clock that is mat side. The clock on the screen is about a second to two seconds off at some points. 

Here is a picture of the action with .1 second left on the clock.  A lot would have had to happen in that tenth of a second for it to become a takedown.

Molloy.1.JPG

 

2. Are you trying to tell me that since this was a "single leg" move that he only has to demonstrate control with one leg? Does that mean if I do any other type of single leg move I only have to control one leg to get a takedown?

 

3. His head was buried and would have needed to come to either side for a takedown to be called.

 

 

 

I photo shopped a picture from the Flowrestling broadcast of the match where I can see a takedown.

 

1.  Yea, maybe Joe is right on timing of the screen vs the on mat score clock.    But this is what I was basing my  opinion on Note my picture did not have the mat scoreboard view in it due to angle.  Pictures look pretty close to me.

 

2.  See the clock, it has 1 second left.

 

3.  Walker ends up on top of Molloy of firemans with Molloy on his back.  Walker has overhook on left arm (control).

 

4.  Walker's left leg has covered Molloy's legs.  You can't see Walkers right arm from this angle,  but probably between legs  controlling hips.    Not his legs have covered both of Molloy's legs. 

 

5.  In the position he landed,  he's directly on top.  He's staying tight to Molloy and  using his head to keep Molloy's back on the mat and from scrambling.  I've never heard it's imperative that the head has to come out.  I'm saying both legs are in control, and this has nothing to do with a single leg.  Are you saying on a double leg, you have to pull your head out to get out to get a two. 

 

6.  This is a close call and timing is suspect, but I could see this going either way.

 

 

 

width=500 height=399http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz89/mathisman/Untitled.jpg[/img]

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Here is a great link to pictures of the wrestling rules including takedown/control

 

http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/NFHS_Rules_Photos.pdf

 

None of the pictures show a takedown with one leg and/or the head buried in the chest.

 

Also if you look closely which picture do you think came first? Natural progression would seem that my picture was first and my educate guess would be that it took longer than .1 seconds to get to the second picture.

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Here is a great link to pictures of the wrestling rules including takedown/control

 

http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/NFHS_Rules_Photos.pdf

 

None of the pictures show a takedown with one leg and/or the head buried in the chest.

 

Also if you look closely which picture do you think came first? Natural progression would seem that my picture was first and my educate guess would be that it took longer than .1 seconds to get to the second picture.

 

 

Joe,

 

Come on.  There's about 9 pictures of takedowns in your reference and of which most aren't even close to the situation were talking about.  The only roughly relevant picture with the double with the head on the side under arm pit.  This is useless to our debate.  And like you're saying the head has to pop out.  Show me that.

 

And on the timing of the camera.  You may be right on a time lag with mat clock and tv clock, but keep in mind Walker was moving and didn't have that far to go.

 

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Joe,

 

Come on.  There's about 9 pictures of takedowns in your reference and of which most aren't even close to the situation were talking about.  The only roughly relevant picture with the double with the head on the side under arm pit.  This is useless to our debate.  And like you're saying the head has to pop out.  Show me that.

 

And on the timing of the camera.  You may be right on a time lag with mat clock and tv clock, but keep in mind Walker was moving and didn't have that far to go.

 

None of the pictures show a head buried in the middle of the chest.

 

None of the pictures show someone with one leg as control.

 

Show me where it says you only have to control one leg for a takedown.  Show me where it says your head can be buried in your opponent's chest for a takedown.

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