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what would you do to get to state?


WrestlingMan2

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Pretty sure I know my wrestling techniques and RULES quite well.  Ive been in a lot of rooms and i Don't think I've ever seen a cross faced cradle get taught that way.  Maybe you should start reffing matches since you know so much more than the officials.  Once again, explain to me what this has to do with luginbill.  It was the trainers decision.

 

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For you that don't want to search through all that footage,  the move is about 35 min. in that video Y2 posted.  That being said anyone who watches wrestling see's that position about a dozen times in a full day,  or who has wrestled has been put in that position.  It was a crosface craddle that he got a little extended on.  There was nothing illegal about that move... it was potentially dangerious but not illegal.  If I was running a half and tried to stack it and the kids neck got tweaked should I get DQ's for it?  There should be a rule if someone cant continue after an injury and it results in a win,  they shouldnt be able to wrestle the rest of the day.  Not to keep people from laying down but just to keep kids safe, especially a back or neck injury.  If the injury was severe enough where the kid couldnt wrestle the rest of that match then he shouldnt of been able to wrestle an hour later.  I don't know about you but if I got hurt during a match and couldnt finish it,  it usually resulted in me leaving the tournment and going to the hospital and my season ending...  but hey maybe I'm old school being 28

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Let's take a step back to 1999.  Does anybody remember what happened to Andrew Wolf of East Central in the round to go at the seymour semi state.  #1 in the state.  I'm a head coach now and I would never let what happened to him, come from any of my wrestlers.

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We did not ask if he wanted the win or wanted to wrestle.

I told him the match was over no matter what. That was decided by the trainer when the ref said decide now.

I asked him if he wanted to default or win the match.

He said he wanted to win.

The kid is a competitor, how am I to tell my kid that the other wrestler is better than you and you don't deserve to win.

The match was 2-1 in the first period.

I know how to set up a cross face cradle. It is not by taking the ankle against the back toward the head. The ref called an illegal move immediately.

As I said before, this situation was unfortunate all the way around.

At no point were we trying to take a dive or take the easy way out.

Same situation happened to us last year at conference. AC slammed a kid and we were DQ. The kid wrestled the rest of the day as well.

I didn't see Joe, who is in our conference, on here saying that the kid didn't deserve the win.

Tony Currie

Adams Central

 

 

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We did not ask if he wanted the win or wanted to wrestle.

I told him the match was over no matter what. That was decided by the trainer when the ref said decide now.

I asked him if he wanted to default or win the match.

He said he wanted to win.

The kid is a competitor, how am I to tell my kid that the other wrestler is better than you and you don't deserve to win.

The match was 2-1 in the first period.

I know how to set up a cross face cradle. It is not by taking the ankle against the back toward the head. The ref called an illegal move immediately.

As I said before, this situation was unfortunate all the way around.

At no point were we trying to take a dive or take the easy way out.

Same situation happened to us last year at conference. AC slammed a kid and we were DQ. The kid wrestled the rest of the day as well.

I didn't see Joe, who is in our conference, on here saying that the kid didn't deserve the win.

Tony Currie

Adams Central

 

 

Well said coach... so keep on rambling and ranting y2 jelly your getting nowhere...
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I feel if you are to hurt to finish the match you should probably go to the hospital to make sure your ok. What's the old saying either your hurt or injuried hurt you can still go injuried your done.

He wanted to wrestle.... what dont you get about, it was the trainers call... get your facts straight before you decide to put ignorant posts ;)

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He wanted to wrestle.... what dont you get about, it was the trainers call... get your facts straight before you decide to put ignorant posts ;)

The fact is I wasn't there and I'm talking in a general sense not just this match. I understand how you are defensive about anypost on here right now taking it As a personal shot. I'm saying the Ihsaa should change the rule and this problem couldn't happen again. I feel bad for the Adams kid and the Carroll kid

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The fact is I wasn't there and I'm talking in a general sense not just this match. I understand how you are defensive about anypost on here right now taking it As a personal shot. I'm saying the Ihsaa should change the rule and this problem couldn't happen again. I feel bad for the Adams kid and the Carroll kid

Agreed .

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To call it an illegal move is wrong.  He was trying to run a cross face cradle and Ludinbill was fighting not to go with it.  In my opinion this should have been stopped for potentially dangerous and not an illegal move.  This should have never came down to the trainer making the decision.  Just another reason in my opinion to have wrestle backs to 4th.

 

In the 15 years that I have been coaching I have not seen this called this way.

 

I really just think it was a bad call.

 

I also agree with this!!!! In that position it is the refs JOB & DUTY to stop anything that is potentially dangerous to the wrestlers health. And for a cross face cradle to turn into a bow and arrow means that the kid to turn his chest up toward Malcolm. The ref should have just called P D in my opinion. Too bad

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Even if the trainer says he can't continue the coaches and/or the kid can decide to not accept a disqualification.  See the Heritage Hills coaches and their 220lber from last year at state in the quarter-finals for reference.

 

That was one of the classiest things ive ever seen in this sport!!!

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This is a bow and arrow, what Spencer did was not a bow and arrow

 

 

Learn your wrestling techniques.

 

A lot of wrestling technique is whatever you want to call it. What you call a bow and arrow, I've heard referred to as a Gable Turk. When I hear bow and arrow, I think head in the ribs attempting to lock up an inside cradle(poor technique IMO).  What I saw in the video was simply poor technique. He had about 3 things going on top and not doing any of them well. I saw no resemblance of a cross face cradle other than the fact that he did have a cross face. If anything, maybe attempting some sort of butcher?(or whatever you want to call it). When he reached back for the toe, it did nothing to improve his chances of turning his opponent other than inflicting pain.

 

When it comes to back and/or head injuries, the trainer is always going to error on the side of caution. They don't want to get sued and they aren't doctors. Unfortunate way to win or lose.

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Again, why reward somebody who used an illegal move?

 

NO kid should be rewarded for an illegal move, but to say that he should know better is a little dramatic.  I wasn't there, but experienced wrestlers can mistakenly hit an illegal move.  It doesn't have to be intentional.  I may be misinterpreting, but it seems like some think this kid was cheating from the get go on an illegal move. 

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We did not ask if he wanted the win or wanted to wrestle.

I told him the match was over no matter what. That was decided by the trainer when the ref said decide now.

I asked him if he wanted to default or win the match.

He said he wanted to win.

The kid is a competitor, how am I to tell my kid that the other wrestler is better than you and you don't deserve to win.

The match was 2-1 in the first period.

I know how to set up a cross face cradle. It is not by taking the ankle against the back toward the head. The ref called an illegal move immediately.

As I said before, this situation was unfortunate all the way around.

At no point were we trying to take a dive or take the easy way out.

 

Same situation happened to us last year at conference. AC slammed a kid and we were DQ. The kid wrestled the rest of the day as well.

I didn't see Joe, who is in our conference, on here saying that the kid didn't deserve the win.

Tony Currie

Adams Central

 

I was not there, nor do I know either kid, but I once saw the Zionsville coach not accept a DQ because he knew his kid could not go on anyway.  He did not want to end another kid's wrestling career.  It was, also an illegal move.  We all know that an illegal move doesn't have to be intentional.  Experienced wrestlers make mistakes in the heat of the moment, when they are trying something new, etc.  As a coach I think you need to consider several things before an athlete's career.  1.  Did your athlete have a chance at beating this kid-Only you can answer that honestly. 2.  Does the opponent routinely use illegal moves and try to manipulate the system or was this a mistake? No one should be able to move ahead if they have cheated their way to the top.  State is a big stake in a kid's life.  Not wanting to hurt your athletes feelings is not a good enough reason to end another kids career.  It is YOUR job to guide your athletes to make good decisions.

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Mr. Caprino  you seem to think you know all about something in which you know very little.  Last I checked I thought referees made the decisions about what was legal and what wasn't.  I don't know how a ref can blow a call on what you say is a cross faced cradle.  The bow and arrow and cross faced cradle seem to be very different moves.  Also for a little clarification.  Luginbill was telling the trainer he wanted to finish to match, but the trainer told him he was not wrestling.  So put yourself in his shoes.  You work your butt off all year for this match to have someone put you in an illegal move and be told you can't finish the match even though you know you can.  It was not up to the kid.  It was 100% up to the trainer.  Why should Luginbill throw his season down the drain for something that was 0% his fault.  It's unfortunate what happened but Luginbill is not to blame.  The entire crowd was booing him the rest of the day and the crowd doesn't even know the real story.  He's a 16 year old kid and I'm pretty sure he handled it well and appeared to apologize to Malcomb.  It's sad how all the "Mature" adults handled the situation.  Booing a sixteen year old kid should make you feel really good.  If anyones wants to be mad at someone, blame the trainer.  Luginbill had no part in "faking" his way into state.       

Would you like to release any more facts about any incidents this week since you are so factual?

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What would I do to make it to state? I'd sacrifice a lamb.

 

 

All joking aside, ref made a bad call. If it was actually illegal then sure, but it sounds like it was not. When I was wrestling,at the al smith one year I was I  a close match where I was slammed hard late in the match, there was probably like 15 sec left And I was down by one (after the point for the illegal slam) my coach asked me if I wanted to continue. I knew I could take the easy win, guaranteeing that I would place. I went out and continued, hit a nice switch and won. I wouldn't of been happy with the win givin to me. Earning it is so much better.

 

Things like this are why we need wrestlebacks

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