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Kayla's draw is what it is. Last year as a fourth place finisher out of the Regional she received a great draw. This year she gets a not so great draw. It could have been worse. She could have drawn into Hughes who has given Garcia his only lose. Kayla will go out and give her very best. If her best is good enough then so be it. If it is not good enough then she will shake hands and walk off of the mat with her head held high. Her identity goes much deeper than just that of being a high school wrestler. She works extremely hard. She balances wrestling (and all the pressures that come with it for her), making weight, a tough academic curriculum at one of the toughest academic institutions in the state, and is the President of Culver's Youth Group. She does all of this on her own at boarding school without her family at her side to support her. She has chosen this path because of the academics and leadership curriculum that Culver provides. She does not attend Culver for the wrestling. I am extremely proud of Kayla and the young lady that she is turning into. At the end of the day.....we have to remember that she wrestles during the winter to prepare for the summer. Kayla and the rest of the Miracle family are extremely grateful for all of the support that is given to her.

 

Her freshman year she went to Semistate, lost to Micic who eventually placed 3rd at State losing only to the eventual state champion Boston in a great 5-3 semifinals match. Her sophomore year she went to State and lost to Hayden Lee who eventually placed third losing only to eventual state champion Micic in the semifinals. If history repeats itself, when or if Kayla gets eliminated from the post season that person that eliminated her will go on to do very well.

 

 

The system is far from perfect in Indiana. People can say that you can put your fate in your own hands and let that be their argument for keeping things the way they are but, at the end of the day that person would be ignorant of the system and it's nuances. There are so many variables that come into play that cannot be controlled by a wrestler. Where does your family live? What school do you go to? What Sectional/Regional/Semistate do you go through? How many ranked wrestlers are in your Sectional/Regional/Semistate? What draw do you get? The styles of wrestlers that you will face and how they match up with yours. Snow days that give extra weight for a Sectional/Regional/Semistate may help or hurt you depending on your unique situation. Etc, Etc, Etc. The only real way that you can come close to fully controlling your fate is if you are the very best in your weight class by a long shot. Even then......control is an illusion.

 

So how do we improve the system? There are two ways that I can think of without totally overhauling the current system.

 

1. Wrestlebacks The main reason I am a fan of wrestlebacks is simply because the kids have earned them. We are talking about the hardest sport that requires the most dedication and sacrifice. We as the adults should provide the most thorough way possible to ensure that the kids that deserve to go on to the next level do. Yes it may take a little more time. Yes it may cost a little more money. At the end of the day it is our responsibility. If you don't agree with that then perhaps you would like to change positions with the wrestler and be the one working your tail off day in and day out in the wrestling room, cutting weight, doing the extra runs, etc. Expecting that the adults have your back and are going to do what is right for you. That they care more about you than they do their own agendas. Our job as the adults in the wrestling community is to make sure that the kids, the sanctity/wholesomeness of the sport, and competition series is held in the highest regard. The kids job is to train and compete. When either side is not doing its job we are degrading the greatest sport on earth.

 

2. Improve the draw system When we have the random draw to decide which Regional you will be bracketed with at Semistate there are controls that we could put into place that would improve the current system greatly. A computer program could easily make the random draw happen with implemented controls that have been built into the software that would greatly maximize the odds that the best wrestlers are going to move on to State. One tweak that would improve the whole current draw system would be to implement a control that considers the ranking of the individuals and places them accordingly after the random draw criteria. In simple terms you would have another level of criteria after the random draw. You would need multiple levels or tie breaker controls built into the software to handle the "what ifs". This would improve the system but, would create some other problems that would need resolving. The rankings would now be important. They would no longer be just for fun. Criteria for rankings would have to be implemented and the rankings would have to be governed. On a positive note schools that wrestle weak schedules would have to attempt to strengthen their schedule so that their deserving kids could face ranked kids and become ranked themselves. I know that this idea would be tough to swallow for many because it involves computers, software, and possibly algorithms that most people (including me) don't fully understand. If you want to make things better though you have to start thinking outside the box and not be buried in the past. The mantra of “This is how we have always done it” is the worst mantra in history. It breeds complacency, encourages laziness, and leads greatness to mediocrity. We have the technology.....we just have not chosen to use it yet.

 

Great post from someone who appears to be very grounded.  Coach Miracle obviously isn't trying to raise great wrestlers, he is raising great people.  More should try this approach.

 

Why is it every year people complain like this is just starting to happen?  I drew the #2 ranked kid in 93  Ft Wayne SS in the ticket round.  I fortunatley got the victory, but it was because we didn't whine about that draw. We workedc hard that week to prepare to win. Same thing happened when my brother drew Eric Kieth 1st round of state in 99.  his quote was, "Eric Kieth got a bad draw".  Relish the challenge.  Embrace the obstacle, and strive for victory.  If you lose, so what.  Wrestling has shaped many of our lives, but we are not defined by our losses, and not every experience is a "win".  Ask any of the kids at 120 coming from the PM Regional.  My bet is 1-3 make it to state.

 

Difficulties are only a sign of normalcy.  Pain is to be expected.  Mostly, we survive.

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Why is it every year people complain like this is just starting to happen?  I drew the #2 ranked kid in 93  Ft Wayne SS in the ticket round.  I fortunatley got the victory, but it was because we didn't whine about that draw. We workedc hard that week to prepare to win. Same thing happened when my brother drew Eric Kieth 1st round of state in 99.  his quote was, "Eric Kieth got a bad draw".  Relish the challenge.  Embrace the obstacle, and strive for victory.  If you lose, so what.  Wrestling has shaped many of our lives, but we are not defined by our losses, and not every experience is a "win".  Ask any of the kids at 120 coming from the PM Regional.  My bet is 1-3 make it to state.

 

Difficulties are only a sign of normalcy.  Pain is to be expected.  Mostly, we survive.

 

From what I gather, you don't support wrestlebacks? Pretty sure everyone that has to prepare a kid (coaches, teammates, parents) that gets a less than favorable draw at SS is not wringing their hands and telling the kid "ya got screwed Johnny, there should be wrestlebacks, good luck."  Of course everyone is pumping that kid up and doing their best to get him over the hump.  However, it's on a forum like this where these issues need to get discussed.  Funny how everyone that's not behind wrestlebacks is a guy who overcame the bad draw and won.  I haven't seen a guy who got screwed by a bad draw and lost get on here and say how much better a person he is after the loss and thank God there are no wrestlebacks.  And no, I'm not a guy who got screwed by a bad draw because I wrestled in a state with wrestlebacks.  And no, none of my kids has been screwed by a bad draw.

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That is a valid point, and I am not saying either of those things.  I am fully for wrestlebacks.  I lost Friday night twice, and certainly felt I was better than many that placed. I am now also much older, and I know I am not defined by those losses.  The older we get, the better we were right? ;D  That said, the system is what it is, and the IHSAA does not seem to have intentions of negotiation.  I actually hope they change it, but it's been this way for a long time.

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That is a valid point, and I am not saying either of those things.  I am fully for wrestlebacks.  I lost Friday night twice, and certainly felt I was better than many that placed. I am now also much older, and I know I am not defined by those losses.  The older we get, the better we were right? ;D  That said, the system is what it is, and the IHSAA does not seem to have intentions of negotiation.  I actually hope they change it, but it's been this way for a long time.

 

Got it.

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However, it's on a forum like this where these issues need to get discussed. 

 

That is very wrong.  The people who make the decision aren't on here or part of this "discussion".  The coaches' association has had this discussion with the IHSAA many, many times.  Unfortunately, the coaches, wrestlers, parents, and fans do not get a vote.  Even if the coaches' association came in with a proposal that over 90% of coaches agree with, the IHSAA can still vote no based on their own opinions of what is possible, acceptable, and fair.

 

My hope is that the IHSAA is going to use their new "wrestlebacks to 5th" as a test to see how it goes and if full wrestlebacks to 3rd are possible.  I was worried that many wrestlers would pack it in and not give their best (if any) effort.  Fortunately, the regional I was at didn't have any issues with that.  I witnessed guys (and a girl) competing hard in those matches for a chance to be the alternate and to score points for their team.  We'll see how semi state goes and how much time it adds to the tournament.

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That is very wrong.  The people who make the decision aren't on here or part of this "discussion".  The coaches' association has had this discussion with the IHSAA many, many times.  Unfortunately, the coaches, wrestlers, parents, and fans do not get a vote.  Even if the coaches' association came in with a proposal that over 90% of coaches agree with, the IHSAA can still vote no based on their own opinions of what is possible, acceptable, and fair.

 

My hope is that the IHSAA is going to use their new "wrestlebacks to 5th" as a test to see how it goes and if full wrestlebacks to 3rd are possible.  I was worried that many wrestlers would pack it in and not give their best (if any) effort.  Fortunately, the regional I was at didn't have any issues with that.  I witnessed guys (and a girl) competing hard in those matches for a chance to be the alternate and to score points for their team.  We'll see how semi state goes and how much time it adds to the tournament.

 

 

I agree with you on everything exept terminology.  I would call it "consolaton to 5th  place".    Wrestlebacks by definition require a wrestler to wrestle back from the championhips side of bracket via cross bracketing to wrestle a wrestler in the losers side.  I say we don't call this format a "wrestle back" but a consolation bracket.

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i agree that wrestle backs are needed in order to get the best 8 in the finals and i think they should implement it.......but......in the end it's really about who is number one, and regardless of the good or bad draws along the way, that kid is the best and beat the best to get there.......and i'm not saying that it isn't important to those other 7 kids that made it on the podium, because it is and it should be.....they deserve the recognition for being the in the top 8 in the state....

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i agree that wrestle backs are needed in order to get the best 8 in the finals and i think they should implement it.......but......in the end it's really about who is number one, and regardless of the good or bad draws along the way, that kid is the best and beat the best to get there.......and i'm not saying that it isn't important to those other 7 kids that made it on the podium, because it is and it should be.....they deserve the recognition for being the in the top 8 in the state....

 

I think the importance of getting the correct top 8, is that this is our version of recognizing kids for all state recognition.  In most other sports its voted on and they take the work of the whole season.  In wrestling, its what you do at the state tournament, so I think we ought to do to get the right kids the right placement.  I think its discouraging for a kid who has beaten another kid, but that weaker wrestler gets all state because he has a better draw.

 

 

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Another point to examine is that since the team state champion is determined by the points accrued by individuals at the state tournament, it is important for the integrity of that outcome to have the best 4 for each weight class advance from the semi states to the state meet.

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That is very wrong.  The people who make the decision aren't on here or part of this "discussion".  The coaches' association has had this discussion with the IHSAA many, many times.  Unfortunately, the coaches, wrestlers, parents, and fans do not get a vote.  Even if the coaches' association came in with a proposal that over 90% of coaches agree with, the IHSAA can still vote no based on their own opinions of what is possible, acceptable, and fair.

 

My hope is that the IHSAA is going to use their new "wrestlebacks to 5th" as a test to see how it goes and if full wrestlebacks to 3rd are possible.  I was worried that many wrestlers would pack it in and not give their best (if any) effort.  Fortunately, the regional I was at didn't have any issues with that.  I witnessed guys (and a girl) competing hard in those matches for a chance to be the alternate and to score points for their team.  We'll see how semi state goes and how much time it adds to the tournament.

 

I hear what you are saying.  My choice of words probably wasn't optimal.  Instead of "needs to be disscussed" I should have typed "can be discussed."  From what I understand, the biggest obstacle the H.S. wrestling world faces with the IHSAA is that there really isn't a "wrestler" on the board or within the organization that can explain the importance of issues facing H.S. wrestling. 

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I think the importance of getting the correct top 8, is that this is our version of recognizing kids for all state recognition.  In most other sports its voted on and they take the work of the whole season.  In wrestling, its what you do at the state tournament, so I think we ought to do to get the right kids the right placement.  I think its discouraging for a kid who has beaten another kid, but that weaker wrestler gets all state because he has a better draw.

 

i agree, but in the same breath......my youngest son was beaten in the 1st round at regionals this past weekend.....he got the "bad draw".....his goal for this year was to at least get to semi state.....didn't make it and bows out with a respectable 33-6 record as a sophomore......after the match he came up to me and very dejectedly discussed what went wrong and what he needs to work on and said ya know i just have to get better....he sees kids from other regionals moving on that he has beat before, but instead of complaining about it, we were in the basement sunday morning starting work on next season (and the off season tournaments).....he will wrestle all spring and summer, go to as many tournaments and open rooms as he can and work on his weak points......he knows that it's not a perfect system and the only way he can move on is to be better......i'm very proud of him and his mindset.......all kids need to be taught/told this because it's the way it is, at least for the time being......

 

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Well done sir!

 

Kayla's draw is what it is. Last year as a fourth place finisher out of the Regional she received a great draw. This year she gets a not so great draw. It could have been worse. She could have drawn into Hughes who has given Garcia his only lose. Kayla will go out and give her very best. If her best is good enough then so be it. If it is not good enough then she will shake hands and walk off of the mat with her head held high. Her identity goes much deeper than just that of being a high school wrestler. She works extremely hard. She balances wrestling (and all the pressures that come with it for her), making weight, a tough academic curriculum at one of the toughest academic institutions in the state, and is the President of Culver's Youth Group. She does all of this on her own at boarding school without her family at her side to support her. She has chosen this path because of the academics and leadership curriculum that Culver provides. She does not attend Culver for the wrestling. I am extremely proud of Kayla and the young lady that she is turning into. At the end of the day.....we have to remember that she wrestles during the winter to prepare for the summer. Kayla and the rest of the Miracle family are extremely grateful for all of the support that is given to her.

 

Her freshman year she went to Semistate, lost to Micic who eventually placed 3rd at State losing only to the eventual state champion Boston in a great 5-3 semifinals match. Her sophomore year she went to State and lost to Hayden Lee who eventually placed third losing only to eventual state champion Micic in the semifinals. If history repeats itself, when or if Kayla gets eliminated from the post season that person that eliminated her will go on to do very well.

 

 

The system is far from perfect in Indiana. People can say that you can put your fate in your own hands and let that be their argument for keeping things the way they are but, at the end of the day that person would be ignorant of the system and it's nuances. There are so many variables that come into play that cannot be controlled by a wrestler. Where does your family live? What school do you go to? What Sectional/Regional/Semistate do you go through? How many ranked wrestlers are in your Sectional/Regional/Semistate? What draw do you get? The styles of wrestlers that you will face and how they match up with yours. Snow days that give extra weight for a Sectional/Regional/Semistate may help or hurt you depending on your unique situation. Etc, Etc, Etc. The only real way that you can come close to fully controlling your fate is if you are the very best in your weight class by a long shot. Even then......control is an illusion.

 

So how do we improve the system? There are two ways that I can think of without totally overhauling the current system.

 

1. Wrestlebacks The main reason I am a fan of wrestlebacks is simply because the kids have earned them. We are talking about the hardest sport that requires the most dedication and sacrifice. We as the adults should provide the most thorough way possible to ensure that the kids that deserve to go on to the next level do. Yes it may take a little more time. Yes it may cost a little more money. At the end of the day it is our responsibility. If you don't agree with that then perhaps you would like to change positions with the wrestler and be the one working your tail off day in and day out in the wrestling room, cutting weight, doing the extra runs, etc. Expecting that the adults have your back and are going to do what is right for you. That they care more about you than they do their own agendas. Our job as the adults in the wrestling community is to make sure that the kids, the sanctity/wholesomeness of the sport, and competition series is held in the highest regard. The kids job is to train and compete. When either side is not doing its job we are degrading the greatest sport on earth.

 

2. Improve the draw system When we have the random draw to decide which Regional you will be bracketed with at Semistate there are controls that we could put into place that would improve the current system greatly. A computer program could easily make the random draw happen with implemented controls that have been built into the software that would greatly maximize the odds that the best wrestlers are going to move on to State. One tweak that would improve the whole current draw system would be to implement a control that considers the ranking of the individuals and places them accordingly after the random draw criteria. In simple terms you would have another level of criteria after the random draw. You would need multiple levels or tie breaker controls built into the software to handle the "what ifs". This would improve the system but, would create some other problems that would need resolving. The rankings would now be important. They would no longer be just for fun. Criteria for rankings would have to be implemented and the rankings would have to be governed. On a positive note schools that wrestle weak schedules would have to attempt to strengthen their schedule so that their deserving kids could face ranked kids and become ranked themselves. I know that this idea would be tough to swallow for many because it involves computers, software, and possibly algorithms that most people (including me) don't fully understand. If you want to make things better though you have to start thinking outside the box and not be buried in the past. The mantra of “This is how we have always done it” is the worst mantra in history. It breeds complacency, encourages laziness, and leads greatness to mediocrity. We have the technology.....we just have not chosen to use it yet.

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It really isn't rocket science.  How is every good wrestling tournament ran?  They have wrestle backs to 3rd.  So why is the one tournament that the kids train for set up that way?  What is that teaching the kid?  Nothing, other than politics suck and sometimes you can't get anything done.  But honestly they don't need to learn that from wrestling they can just turn on the news. 

 

We obviously have to change the mindset of the IHSAA which for some reason is impossible.

1.  We have to show them why it is important to get the top 16 kids to state.

2.  Convince them that they should not compare all sports to each other.  (IE Basketball)  Good luck with this one.

 

I just read a huge article on ESPN about Indiana and basketball.  You tell me why we get compared to that sport.

 

Yes I am one of those people that got screwed 2 years in a row over political bull crap.  And I would love to see it not happen to any other kids especially my own when they get older.  Like Coach Miracle said there is enough other variables that come into play.  Why not try to fix the ones we can. 

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Not arguing against wrestle backs at all, but someone said that wrestle backs are the way to ensure the best 8 are the state placers.  I would like to counter that with as long as we take 4, and only 4 from each Semistate, that we will rarely, if ever, see the 8 best wrestlers placer.  Honestly, the only way to ensure that, would be if we took 8 from each Semistate.  I know that I have seen years where you could make a strong argument that a couple kids from a given Semistate, in the same class, got left behind, and not just because of draws.  They were just the 5th and 6th best kids in that weight class at that Semistate.  They also might have been the 6th and 7th kids in that State in that weight class.

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In any (bracket or playoff) scenario, there is always a formula, basketball (march maddness), baseball (MLB, College),NFL... the exception college football, (ranking).  Look back at the most sports,  any time there is bracket system, it is who or what team is hot at the of the season, (playoffs, finals, state run).  Is it right, IDK, Is it perfect IDK, Do some get left behind YES!  This is what we have right now.  BE HAPPY, BE SAD, BUT REVEL IN IT, CUZ A #4 CAN BEAT A #1!!!!

 

 

 

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Some good ones at Merrillville:

 

106

Trent NP vs Hildebrandt Penn

 

120

Garcia Merr vs Miracle CMA

 

132

Covaciu Merr vs Curcio Penn

Torres Port (if he wrestles) vs Hartman SBC

Martslof Mish vs Carithers McCutch

 

138

Schurg CP vs McHugh CMA

 

160

Medrano McCutch vs Gomez Hamm BN

 

170

Wiseman Penn vs Sopko Hob

 

182

Scott HC vs Jones Port

Rodriguez Hob vs Jankowski SBSJ

 

195

Ricks BC vs Stasiak Penn

 

285

Streck Merr vs Boyd SBA/Duvall WL

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It's not about the issue of life being fair or suck it up and win. It's about the fact that top ranked kids with 0-3 losses on the season have to watch kids with 10+ losses go on to state knowing they would probably beat them by atleast a major

 

here is the next problem then......even if you get wrestle backs at semi state all the way to 3rd place, you're still sending 4 from each semi state.....what if one semi state has 6 of the top 16 ranked kids and 2 others have 5 each and one has none?......4 good kids who would probably beat the 4 from the bad seem state still don't go so there is never going to be a sure fire way to get the 8 best guys in the state on the podium.....or even the best 16 there on friday night.....so really the best you could ever hope for is wrestle backs at semi state to at least get the 4 best out of each......it's never going to be perfect......

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This may have already been asked, but why don't we have the tournament run the same way, but end the day with 2nd place vs 3rd place? I know it adds another round onto the day, and it would be somewhat anti-climatic, but that would be the best way to get the best representatives down at bankers life. Being from the FW SS, I see at 113, knapp and miller are on the same side. IMO, these are the top two wrestlers at the FW SS. Both of these guys could be top 5, IMO. So if one of these guys were to draw into a solid 2 seed, I feel like this extra match would be more helpful. If it is the goal of the IHSAA to have the best 16 wrestlers Friday night, top 8 wrestlers quarter finals, and so on, this seems like a reasonable solution.

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It's not about the issue of life being fair or suck it up and win. It's about the fact that top ranked kids with 0-3 losses on the season have to watch kids with 10+ losses go on to state knowing they would probably beat them by atleast a major

 

Well maybe the ones with the 0-3 losses do not wrestle a difficult schedule like some of the kids with 10+ losses! Not to mention that some of the kids with 10+ losses may be due to sickness or wrestling with injury. Sorry, but kids with 0-3 losses does not mean they are a better wrestler than those with 10+ losses. Therefore, you cannot go solely off of a kids record just as you can't always judge a book by it's cover...

 

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Well maybe the ones with the 0-3 losses do not wrestle a difficult schedule like some of the kids with 10+ losses! Not to mention that some of the kids with 10+ losses may be due to sickness or wrestling with injury. Sorry, but kids with 0-3 losses does not mean they are a better wrestler than those with 10+ losses. Therefore, you cannot go solely off of a kids record just as you can't always judge a book by it's cover..

 

 

Completely agree with this point.  I think Camden Eppert had 6-7 losses when he won state.  I could be wrong on that & know all of the losses were to Brandon Wright, but I don't care how many losses a kid has.  Sometimes kids peak at the right time.  Anyone who makes it to state earns it, regardless of losses.

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