fearless fly Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I can honestly say Indiana is in the Dark Ages compared to other states with the 1 class system and no wrestlebacks. But, at this point in the season, it does no good to complain about the format. Just make the best of the situation, and realize the guy you are wrestling against got the bad draw! that made my day....needed a good laugh! Thank you !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towelboy08 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 to be the best you've got to beat the best. Yes I think as a group we would all like to see wrestle backs, but to be honest with ya There is nothing more exciting when you see some of these matches. You watch it and know that they both should be top 8 in the state,but somebody's going home and somebody's going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towelboy08 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Also i think the walburn (Adams Central) and Humphrey (Snider) could be a very good ticket round match.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 What confuses me is the "no wrestlebacks" crowd thinks that to have wrestlebacks means supporting the belief that all kids should get a trophy mentality. Im not sure where this comes from. I, for one, am against the helicoptor parental belief that all kids deserve recognition but advocating wrestlebacks is not even close to "protecting Johnny's psyche" at all costs. What i want iw to see the very best going head to head at state and wrestlebacks is the only way that can be achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Respectfully, what are you talking about? I have never heard the coaches mantra - "State Finals in any individual sport is to get the best possible wrestlers that the state has to offer in one venue to determine the top 16." Most coaches I know teach the kids to suck it up and 'put your destiny in your own hands', encourage the kids to embrace the opportunity, not cry about the seed. Wrestling is one on one, beating your opponent in that match. It's about using your advantages and strengths against your opponents (be it speed, strength, stamina, technique, leverage, heart). And guess what, some times the better guy does not win - there is no do over, it's not best two-out-of-three. More importantly, wrestling in the IHSAA tournament is about bringing it every weekend, every match, and winning matches you are not favored to win or supposed to win. It's fighting for every point. When did IHSAA wrestling become 'soccer trophies for all'? That's why they are called wrestling tournaments; So should we determine top 16 by arbitrary rankings? No, it is determined on the mat. By your logic, you are saying those on the podium at State didn't deserve it? Or, when a kid wrestles a great match and upsets a technically superior opponent with hustle and determination, do you tell him, 'oh my bad, despite you winning this match, here is your medal, but "we need to make sure we get the best possible kids next weekend", so your match does not count'? If you are a #1 Seed that loses in the Semi-state ticket round, it means that you lost to someone who is beatable. So is determining the final 16 by a random draw better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alduflux Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 What confuses me is the "no wrestlebacks" crowd thinks that to have wrestlebacks means supporting the belief that all kids should get a trophy mentality. Im not sure where this comes from. I, for one, am against the helicoptor parental belief that all kids deserve recognition but advocating wrestlebacks is not even close to "protecting Johnny's psyche" at all costs. What i want iw to see the very best going head to head at state and wrestlebacks is the only way that can be achieved. I agree. Having wrestlebacks makes it HARDER to make state. Not easier. Wrestlebacks means more wrestling. More tough matches. Wrestlebacks make it harder to EARN your spot. I support wrestlebacks because I want all the kids to earn it on the mat and not just get a easy draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlin4food Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hey there are other topics on this board that are all about wrestle backs. Can we get back to tough semi state ticket round matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Respectfully, what are you talking about? I have never heard the coaches mantra - "State Finals in any individual sport is to get the best possible wrestlers that the state has to offer in one venue to determine the top 16." Most coaches I know teach the kids to suck it up and 'put your destiny in your own hands', encourage the kids to embrace the opportunity, not cry about the seed. Wrestling is one on one, beating your opponent in that match. It's about using your advantages and strengths against your opponents (be it speed, strength, stamina, technique, leverage, heart). And guess what, some times the better guy does not win - there is no do over, it's not best two-out-of-three. More importantly, wrestling in the IHSAA tournament is about bringing it every weekend, every match, and winning matches you are not favored to win or supposed to win. It's fighting for every point. When did IHSAA wrestling become 'soccer trophies for all'? That's why they are called wrestling tournaments; So should we determine top 16 by arbitrary rankings? No, it is determined on the mat. By your logic, you are saying those on the podium at State didn't deserve it? Or, when a kid wrestles a great match and upsets a technically superior opponent with hustle and determination, do you tell him, 'oh my bad, despite you winning this match, here is your medal, but "we need to make sure we get the best possible kids next weekend", so your match does not count'? If you are a #1 Seed that loses in the Semi-state ticket round, it means that you lost to someone who is beatable. Your screen name should be Ricky Bobby. Apparently by prefacing a rant with respectfully, you can say whatever you want. Haha priceless. I've learned my lesson, you cant argue with an idiot, they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Spires Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Also i think the walburn (Adams Central) and Humphrey (Snider) could be a very good ticket round match.. Moody-Neukom could give Humphery a good match in round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestlingfan182 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 These are possible round to go matches at new castle. 120 sparks vs. Martin FC 152 Cooper PM vs. Corsaro 160 McClurg PM vs. Tatum 286 Blades vs. Bernard What a shame! Mantel vs Kenny Fuller vs Lile Farrell vs Decker are a few others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Thought the Thread was "Ticket Round matches", not wrestlebacks. If I wanted to read a three page debate on a wrestlebacks post I would have clicked on it! So How about you start a new thread on the subject......AGAIN, if you want to debate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Evansville @126 1st Rd. Tyler Fleener(CG) v. Austin Ward(FC) Winner most likely gets Blake Jourdan(MD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestler3 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Fleener has pinned Jourdan this season, twice in the past year w/ a total mat time of less than a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rassle On Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Ticket round @New Castle 145 ...Handley vs. Larson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gold Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Fleener vs Welch may be a good one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoBoom Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I understand everyone's issues for having/not having wrestlebacks...but like it was said how far do you want to take it... there are kids who finished 5th at sectional that all 4 of the qualifiers from their sectional are at semi state and all 4 very well may end up at state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thought the Thread was "Ticket Round matches", not wrestlebacks. If I wanted to read a three page debate on a wrestlebacks post I would have clicked on it! So How about you start a new thread on the subject......AGAIN, if you want to debate it! Read what you want and ignore the rest. Not that hard to figure out. Threads get hijacked all the time, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benni hanna 79 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Merrillville 195 has a lot of good ticket round matches. I think that they're going to be overlooked though because we all know who the champ is going to be. I must say Kral is getting better every time I watch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baguba15 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Walburn beat humphrey 11-2 earlier this year. And sieger and ellinger will be and exciting one to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathewsz7 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 not a ticket round match but at least im not going to talk about wrestle backs....lol but Evansville 145 has Malloy/Kelly in the semis....i feel really bad for whatever #2 draws the loser of this one on Friday night....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICfan Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Merrillville 170-Sopko vs Wiseman 182-Jones vs Scott 285-Streck vs Duvall I would not count out boyd so duvall/boyd vs streck. Boyd lost a close 11-9 match to streck at al smith. And at regionals gave carr a scare. He went up 5-4 in the third. With about 30 seconds left carr got a reversal and won 6-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Read what you want and ignore the rest. Not that hard to figure out. Threads get hijacked all the time, get over it. That's a solid matchup, who do you have winning?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCWC Coach Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 In Fort Wayne at 170 Keair Ross (Kok) vs Anthony Linnear (FW North) will be a brutal ticket round match. Also at 182 Hinkle (Western) and Pfister (AC) will be a dandy as well. I think this one has been mentioned but Glogouski vs. Phillips at 120 could be a state medal match, too bad one will be watching! The Richardson (Busco) vs Johnson (EM) at 195 should be a great match at 195 as well. Gonna be a great day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Miracle Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Kayla's draw is what it is. Last year as a fourth place finisher out of the Regional she received a great draw. This year she gets a not so great draw. It could have been worse. She could have drawn into Hughes who has given Garcia his only lose. Kayla will go out and give her very best. If her best is good enough then so be it. If it is not good enough then she will shake hands and walk off of the mat with her head held high. Her identity goes much deeper than just that of being a high school wrestler. She works extremely hard. She balances wrestling (and all the pressures that come with it for her), making weight, a tough academic curriculum at one of the toughest academic institutions in the state, and is the President of Culver's Youth Group. She does all of this on her own at boarding school without her family at her side to support her. She has chosen this path because of the academics and leadership curriculum that Culver provides. She does not attend Culver for the wrestling. I am extremely proud of Kayla and the young lady that she is turning into. At the end of the day.....we have to remember that she wrestles during the winter to prepare for the summer. Kayla and the rest of the Miracle family are extremely grateful for all of the support that is given to her. Her freshman year she went to Semistate, lost to Micic who eventually placed 3rd at State losing only to the eventual state champion Boston in a great 5-3 semifinals match. Her sophomore year she went to State and lost to Hayden Lee who eventually placed third losing only to eventual state champion Micic in the semifinals. If history repeats itself, when or if Kayla gets eliminated from the post season that person that eliminated her will go on to do very well. The system is far from perfect in Indiana. People can say that you can put your fate in your own hands and let that be their argument for keeping things the way they are but, at the end of the day that person would be ignorant of the system and it's nuances. There are so many variables that come into play that cannot be controlled by a wrestler. Where does your family live? What school do you go to? What Sectional/Regional/Semistate do you go through? How many ranked wrestlers are in your Sectional/Regional/Semistate? What draw do you get? The styles of wrestlers that you will face and how they match up with yours. Snow days that give extra weight for a Sectional/Regional/Semistate may help or hurt you depending on your unique situation. Etc, Etc, Etc. The only real way that you can come close to fully controlling your fate is if you are the very best in your weight class by a long shot. Even then......control is an illusion. So how do we improve the system? There are two ways that I can think of without totally overhauling the current system. 1. Wrestlebacks The main reason I am a fan of wrestlebacks is simply because the kids have earned them. We are talking about the hardest sport that requires the most dedication and sacrifice. We as the adults should provide the most thorough way possible to ensure that the kids that deserve to go on to the next level do. Yes it may take a little more time. Yes it may cost a little more money. At the end of the day it is our responsibility. If you don't agree with that then perhaps you would like to change positions with the wrestler and be the one working your tail off day in and day out in the wrestling room, cutting weight, doing the extra runs, etc. Expecting that the adults have your back and are going to do what is right for you. That they care more about you than they do their own agendas. Our job as the adults in the wrestling community is to make sure that the kids, the sanctity/wholesomeness of the sport, and competition series is held in the highest regard. The kids job is to train and compete. When either side is not doing its job we are degrading the greatest sport on earth. 2. Improve the draw system When we have the random draw to decide which Regional you will be bracketed with at Semistate there are controls that we could put into place that would improve the current system greatly. A computer program could easily make the random draw happen with implemented controls that have been built into the software that would greatly maximize the odds that the best wrestlers are going to move on to State. One tweak that would improve the whole current draw system would be to implement a control that considers the ranking of the individuals and places them accordingly after the random draw criteria. In simple terms you would have another level of criteria after the random draw. You would need multiple levels or tie breaker controls built into the software to handle the "what ifs". This would improve the system but, would create some other problems that would need resolving. The rankings would now be important. They would no longer be just for fun. Criteria for rankings would have to be implemented and the rankings would have to be governed. On a positive note schools that wrestle weak schedules would have to attempt to strengthen their schedule so that their deserving kids could face ranked kids and become ranked themselves. I know that this idea would be tough to swallow for many because it involves computers, software, and possibly algorithms that most people (including me) don't fully understand. If you want to make things better though you have to start thinking outside the box and not be buried in the past. The mantra of “This is how we have always done it” is the worst mantra in history. It breeds complacency, encourages laziness, and leads greatness to mediocrity. We have the technology.....we just have not chosen to use it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoontzDaddy Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Simple solution: wrestlebacks. I understand the concern for time and resources, but it is truly the only way to absolutely know who the top four really are in a given tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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