Walter Sobchak Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 OK this is more for Refs than anyone else. At the sectional I attended I saw Stalling called very inconsistent. To back up my claim, I kept notes: Total stalling calls I saw: 18 of those: 3 were double stalling in first period Just FYI, snap downs, slide-bys, motion and hand fight are offensive techniques. It DOESN'T have to be a leg attack to be offense. 9 were called against guy with lead on his feet. Again, it doesn't have to be a leg attack to be offense. 2 were called against guy who was behind once the guy was on top. (And was actually working a power half) The other the guy was on bottom and he was doing nothing. It was pretty obvious, actually an 8 year old could've called it. The other four were on guys on bottom who were behind. I would say three were legit the other I just think the kid was getting the crap kicked out of with legs and was flexible enough not to get turned. I did witness one match were a kid was behind 0-1 chose neutral and proceeded to backup the entire period, was shot out of bounds at least four times and never once was he called. Luckily the guy with lead was never called either so it didn't make a difference. I just want to throw it out there that just because a guy has a lead doesn't automatically make him vulernable for stalling, a good sprawl is not stalling, and there is plenty of offense in wrestling that does not require a leg attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 So you should avoid being ahead and just dive at the guys legs and you don't have to worry. I said I observed these calls, from sitting in the stands no kids involved and few with kids I know in the match. Totally an outsiders perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 OK this is more for Refs than anyone else. At the sectional I attended I saw Stalling called very inconsistent. To back up my claim, I kept notes: Total stalling calls I saw: 18 of those: 3 were double stalling in first period Just FYI, snap downs, slide-bys, motion and hand fight are offensive techniques. It DOESN'T have to be a leg attack to be offense. 9 were called against guy with lead on his feet. Again, it doesn't have to be a leg attack to be offense. 2 were called against guy who was behind once the guy was on top. (And was actually working a power half) The other the guy was on bottom and he was doing nothing. It was pretty obvious, actually an 8 year old could've called it. The other four were on guys on bottom who were behind. I would say three were legit the other I just think the kid was getting the crap kicked out of with legs and was flexible enough not to get turned. I did witness one match were a kid was behind 0-1 chose neutral and proceeded to backup the entire period, was shot out of bounds at least four times and never once was he called. Luckily the guy with lead was never called either so it didn't make a difference. I just want to throw it out there that just because a guy has a lead doesn't automatically make him vulernable for stalling, a good sprawl is not stalling, and there is plenty of offense in wrestling that does not require a leg attack. Stalling is way to inconsistent, and probably not called enough. It always needs to be something officials associations should put as a point of emphasis and focus on the consistency in each situation. The stalling call that irks me the most and I saw 5 times this weekend is when the top wrestler puts legs in, and the bottom guy is fighting to keep flat from getting turned. They always call the bottom guy for stalling. I've seen so many guys put legs just to ride and not try to turn, but they never call stalling on the leg rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Consistency is what bugs me about stalling, and I don't even mean consistency between refs. I saw a ref at the WC sectional that seemed to go between using stalling calls to motivate wrestlers to allowing guys to stall out a period at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt1 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 These calls are mainly subjective to the ref involved, so you never know what might happen. To avoid being on the wrong end of one of these calls is don't put yourself into that position... Couldn't agree more if my own mother had said it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 And it seems to be the guy that is in the lead that gets dinged for the stalling. A leg rider that is behind is working for the fall, the same leg rider is ahead and is now just hanging on. A guy on bottom that is ahead and is getting worked over is avoiding wrestling, but if he is behind then it becomes ok? It is the one area that officials need some education on and need to stop thinking they should be noticed. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 And it seems to be the guy that is in the lead that gets dinged for the stalling. A leg rider that is behind is working for the fall, the same leg rider is ahead and is now just hanging on. A guy on bottom that is ahead and is getting worked over is avoiding wrestling, but if he is behind then it becomes ok? It is the one area that officials need some education on and need to stop thinking they should be noticed. Am I wrong? Amen Brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neindianawrestler Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 walter you seemed to hit the nail on the head. I have been around wrestling for almost 20 yrs and never seen so many matches decided by the referees and the desire to be noticed or be different..........Sad let the kids decide the match not the refs that is the true sign of poor officiating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 My favorite stalling technique....the Santa. Bottom guy grabs top guys wrist with both hands and sort of moves a little bit hoping top guy gets frustrated and gets out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Um I have been told that is a legitimate defense to the legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neindianawrestler Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Jimtown 138 I agree with you also after watching the SAC tournament and seeing one ref call a zillion stalling penalties with no consistency( he couldnt get thru 1 period without consulting with the scorers table about what the heck he was calling) I registered to take the test to become a licensed official Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 I would, but I can't as all meets are on Saturday, Saturday as you know Dude is the day of rest, I don't cook, turn on the oven, drive, roll or officiate. Am I wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Your not even Jewish Walter. And your not wrong, your just an ??? ;D I do agree about the inconsistentcy with stalling and a ref should have ear muffs and never listen to the crowd chanting Staaallling Staaallling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neindianawrestler Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 sorry to all the good refs out there we appreciate your hard work and dedication. This was only sent out to those select few who need to make tons of calls so everyone knows how smart they are and how they see things no one else sees. Let the kids decide the match stalling is part of the sport unfortunately but it is fairly easy to see by all of us who have wrestled and even by some who havent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther83 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Is faking an injury time, every seriously looked at, or considered stalling? I witnessed this all day long by one team at a sectional last Saturday, and it was very frustrating how it was accepted. These kids looked to be in as good condition as other wrestlers from other teams, but after about 2 hours myself and several other parents could pretty much put a clock on the fact that after period 1 and 2 there was an apparent injury that miraculously healed itself with 20-30 seconds of rest. And Note, none, I repeat none were blood time. I realize that both wrestlers get a blow when this happens, but if this is accepted on a regular basis, I thinks it's a travesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neindianawrestler Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 panther 83 I must have been at the same sectional I saw a lot of that also. It is a huge travesty it punishes the kids who are in top condition due to lots of CONDITIONING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Caller Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 OK this is more for Refs than anyone else. At the sectional I attended I saw Stalling called very inconsistent. To back up my claim, I kept notes: Total stalling calls I saw: 18 of those: 3 were double stalling in first period Just FYI, snap downs, slide-bys, motion and hand fight are offensive techniques. It DOESN'T have to be a leg attack to be offense. 9 were called against guy with lead on his feet. Again, it doesn't have to be a leg attack to be offense. 2 were called against guy who was behind once the guy was on top. (And was actually working a power half) The other the guy was on bottom and he was doing nothing. It was pretty obvious, actually an 8 year old could've called it. The other four were on guys on bottom who were behind. I would say three were legit the other I just think the kid was getting the crap kicked out of with legs and was flexible enough not to get turned. I did witness one match were a kid was behind 0-1 chose neutral and proceeded to backup the entire period, was shot out of bounds at least four times and never once was he called. Luckily the guy with lead was never called either so it didn't make a difference. I just want to throw it out there that just because a guy has a lead doesn't automatically make him vulernable for stalling, a good sprawl is not stalling, and there is plenty of offense in wrestling that does not require a leg attack. I saw one where a guy was standing dead center of the mat and the other wrestler was just circling him on the edge of the center circle. And the ref threw up the double stalling call. the definition of not stalling is to try as hard as possible to fight to say in the center circle and wrestle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 and I'd bet anything, those refs called half that many, or less, all season long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown wrestler Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I have to be honest I thought the refs at lafayette Jeff sectional did an ok job this past weekend! You are right the calls in question were the stalling calls. One situation was top guy with legs in while bottom guy just grabs his hands and flattens out, while top guy gets called for stalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Is faking an injury time, every seriously looked at, or considered stalling? I witnessed this all day long by one team at a sectional last Saturday, and it was very frustrating how it was accepted. These kids looked to be in as good condition as other wrestlers from other teams, but after about 2 hours myself and several other parents could pretty much put a clock on the fact that after period 1 and 2 there was an apparent injury that miraculously healed itself with 20-30 seconds of rest. And Note, none, I repeat none were blood time. I realize that both wrestlers get a blow when this happens, but if this is accepted on a regular basis, I thinks it's a travesty. Be preparted I have seen this on the college level regularly. I raised my son with integrity. It happens, some will do what ever it takes to win. I would rather loose with intgirty than win by being a cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guru Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Some refs just don't know the difference between a stalemate and stalling. That is where you see a lot of frustrating and inconsistent calls especially on the mat. What I have noticed this year more than in past years are refs simply being out of position to make the correct calls. Good referees seem to anticipate the action much better and are in position to see and make the correct calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neindianawrestler Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Guru I think you have to it 100% right there are certain refs that dont get in good position or just use the stalling call so they dont have to get in good position . This all could be avoided by talking to the wrestlers to keep action or to call a stalemate but instead they are lazy and just call stalling. This is ruining so many good matches I have seen this year and is happening more than ever ...... Lazy refs RETIRE!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Talking to the wrestlers is coaching not officiating, when a wrestler has the legs in and is doing nothing with a power half, you would stalemate it once or twice. Then if he goes back to it again and it doesn't work, it is seen as stalling for going back the same move repeatedly. A coach coaches and the referee offiiciates, and the fan writes on here about what they think they saw. The official isn't to tell the wrestlers what to do or how, his tools are his wrist bands and signaling stalling or stale mate. Take the test and get on the mat and see how easy it is. Stalling is a great call as long as it is called on the other wrestler, if the official allows a wrestler to lay on the mat while winning by one point, as his opponent is trying to turn him. And doesn't call stalling on the bottom man, because he dosen't want to decide the out come of the match, just did decide the out come by allowing it to happen. Or letting a wrestler work the edge of the mat using it as his saftey net to bail if he gets in trouble is fleeing, to avoid being scored on. Lets watch paint dry. a 1-0 match with both wrestlers in a collar tie for two minutes, or just ride the hips on top for two more minutes, then let the bottom man make love to the mat for another 2 minutes. Sorry now I feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinic the Great Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Amen Brother! couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trparham Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Be preparted I have seen this on the college level regularly. I raised my son with integrity. It happens, some will do what ever it takes to win. I would rather loose with intgirty than win by being a cheat. Really? The college rules call for wrestlers to be penalized for taking injury time. As a result, it seems be a less common practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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