Walter Sobchak Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 thats not hypothetical, thats real. Then the same dad takes his kid to ISWA tournament the next day and who is there coaching?.....thats right the PM staff. hardest working staff in the state. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Every great school gets transfers...even PM....because they are at such a high level of wrestling others want to be apart of it...does tonte go up to these kids and "recruit them" no not at all...to claim that every transfer is "stolen" is like saying your girlfriend was stolen when she found another guy who was a better fit for her. not a perfect metaphor i know but come on. If a kids family is willing to move to a better school system because they believe its the best thing for thier kid more power to them! When the rule is BLATENTLY BROKEN as Sinic the Great claims...actions need to be taken....he obviously has proof but hasnt brought this to anyones attention which makes his claims a little hard to believe. This is where action needs to be taken not when a kid works with a club for 4-5 years and decides that for him that is the place he needs to be and the family supports this endevour and plans accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinic the Great Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 PM has nothing to worry about. They can prove their status, Other teams can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Look at this in a hypothetical perspective. Say a wrestling dad has a son in the age range of 9-12, is showing a lot of potential and will go to high school at one of the schools in PM sectional. The dad attends the sectional this weekend, and sees PM almost run the table and squash the school his son is scheduled to go to. The dad thinks, in 5 years my kid will be the one losing to PM and has a very limited chance of making state. He probably thinks how can I get my kid in the PM program makes it happen. PM doesn't need to recruit. What recruits for PM is there results and the flexibility of open enrollment. And the other schools will continue to get squashed because the wrestlers leave the school they should go to because of what they see now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 PM has nothing to worry about. They can prove their status, Other teams can't. Then do something about it we can not go to the IHSAA and say hey this school is cheating cause some random internet person said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 "If a kids family is willing to move to a better school system because they believe its the best thing for thier kid more power to them!" Fabio, I'm not trying to bust your nuggets, but are you referring to better school system for an education or for wrestling? Look I know Mishawaka had kids wanting to be a part of what you guys had going on over there based on the wrestling success, but you cannot tell me it was the best place academically for them. If it was purely based on academics, there were far better options in that area than Mishawaka. PM has a pretty good reputation academically and obviously athletically, so they're pretty safe as far as the recruiting argument goes. Those parents can justify it by saying it was an academic choice. At some point though I think the IHSAA will have to use logical decisions to stop what they consider recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If you have a top level kid move to you school. You have something to worry about. I don't care who you are. Except for the Catholic schools. The Catholic schools have to be so excited about this rule. They will be the ones who benefit the most from this. Public schools will no longer be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 And the other schools will continue to get squashed because the wrestlers leave the school they should go to because of what they see now. I didn't say it was fair, right or that its good for wrestling. It also it happens in other sports, the strong get stonger and the weak get weaker. I'll reference Fabio's colorful metaphor about girl friends being stolen. Do you remember the guy that got all the girls, or even took your girl. Everybody was jealous of that guy and sometimes hated him, but it was real. But you don't give up, you just keep working, hit the weights, got some new cologne and clothes, and make yourself more attractive, you might keep some of the girls around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIME Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I am really confused, my parents always told me, go to the best school for the education, never mentioned any stuff about going to the best school for wrestling. WERE THEY WRONG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You make a fair argument. I cant deny that Mishawaka is not the best academic school in the state thats a fact. But the IHSAA has clear lines on what they conisder being recruited. None of those were broken. There are grey areas and many loopholes in the entireity rule The IHSAA needs to fix those. I have heard all the Mishawaka cases from people. All legally done and ruled fine. I was wrestling at the time of most of these so I did not look in to the details. As I stated earlier, if a family decides to send their kid to another school district (in this case) before they are even in high school they can do that. In high school that choice is much more problematic but schools have to sign off on the transfers. The rule has a lot of holes Ill admit that. Going after 10 year olds isn't the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinic the Great Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Then do something about it we can not go to the IHSAA and say hey this school is cheating cause some random internet person said so. lmbo no one is telling you to do anything. All I am doing is putting it out there. I said earlier I wont pursue anything because I have a younger son thats in sports, and we don't want to smear our names because we made a mistake with our older child. All am saying is when you see articles on certain mentioned teams in the paper about un-ethical recruiting than you will know I wasnt full of it. If you hear nothing, than no one did a thing about it and it will happen again. I am putting it out there so others will take notice and start paying more attention. If you are so adament about what I should do, than maybe you should help me with shoveling my driveway smart guy. its full of snow, or nevermind. I'll call merrillville up and have them recruit someone for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Fabio, I wasn't implying that there was any wrong doing at all, I'm just saying that using some of your statements, the "built it and they will come" for example, schools will need to be a lot more careful. I agree with you that these schools recruit themselves by showing lasting excellence, however, if a parent is going to use the "better academics" angle, but really mean "better wrestling", the academics portion better be true and be able to be proven. I only used your alma mater because it was an easy example and obviously there was a lot of speculation at the height of your success over there and as you stated the academics were not the best. I totally agree with you on the point that the better sports programs at given schools, both public and private sell themselves. The public schools will now have to be a lot more careful and parents will have to do a little research before jumping in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You know I have always woundered what a coach from awesome school A. Says to the kid who has been in the school district his whole life. Been going to his club sense he was 5. About state champ kid coming in just before High School and taking his spot. I would have a hard time looking him in the eyes and saying anything. Anyone want to answer that question for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You make a fair argument. I cant deny that Mishawaka is not the best academic school in the state thats a fact. But the IHSAA has clear lines on what they conisder being recruited. None of those were broken. There are grey areas and many loopholes in the entireity rule The IHSAA needs to fix those. I have heard all the Mishawaka cases from people. All legally done and ruled fine. I was wrestling at the time of most of these so I did not look in to the details. As I stated earlier, if a family decides to send their kid to another school district (in this case) before they are even in high school they can do that. In high school that choice is much more problematic but schools have to sign off on the transfers. The rule has a lot of holes Ill admit that. Going after 10 year olds isn't the solution. Fabio, I totally agree with you here. I'm going to bring out the grass is always greener on the other side lesson. You said you've seen a lot of cases of kids transferring. But I would suspect that some kids that transfer to these premier programs, and find out it was a mistake. They get there and maybe believe they're better than they really are, and can't break the lineup. They end up as a great JV wrestler, but never get that shot at the state tournament and end up regretting their decision to transfer. Have you seen this happen in your experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Scholar I have seen kids come in thinking they were going to start right away and had to wrestle 1-2 years on JV...if they regretted their decision I don't know Im not them. jchas Did the kid just move in? or was he recruited illegaly? If the kid just moved in legally and such its just tough luck. If the coach activley recruited the kid I would say that's pretty shady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Did the kid just move in? or was he recruited illegally? If the kid just moved in legally and such its just tough luck. If the coach actively recruited the kid I would say that's pretty shady. You don't have to actively recruit for people to know that you welcome it. Is there a deference in your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You don't have to actively recruit for people to know that you welcome it. Is there a deference in your mind? There's a huge difference. One is an infraction of the rules and the other isn't. Id really like to the coach that would turn away a kid from a sport because he transferred from another school just because he didn't think it was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 There's a huge difference. One is an infraction of the rules and the other isn't. Id really like to the coach that would turn away a kid from a sport because he transferred from another school just because he didn't think it was right. Not sure I agree with you on that one. You don't have to directly ask a player to come to your school. For them to know that you would really like for them to come. The coaches at Miami never paid the players to come to the school. That does not mean they did not know about it. And therefor condone it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Not sure I agree with you on that one. You don't have to directly ask a player to come to your school. For them to know that you would really like for them to come. The coaches at Miami never paid the players to come to the school. That does not mean they did not know about it. And therefor condone it. I don't think that's best example. I assume you're referring to the University of Miami football team, and I don't think any of premier wrestling teams have boosters that are paying cash to kids, having huge parties, providing hookers and providing abortions as alleged at Miami for wrestling recruits coming to their school just to wrestle. If a transfer is OK'd by an AD, then the kid is another guy coming out for the team. Yes, every wrestling coach condones enthusiastically wrestlers coming out for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I don't think that's best example. I assume you're referring to the University of Miami football team, and I don't think any of premier wrestling teams have boosters that are paying cash to kids, having huge parties, providing hookers and providing abortions as alleged at Miami for wrestling recruits coming to their school just to wrestle. If a transfer is OK'd by an AD, then the kid is another guy coming out for the team. Yes, every wrestling coach condones enthusiastically wrestlers coming out for the team. Ya that example was way to far. But you get my point. Just because you don't do it yourself. Does not mean that you aren't encouraging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt.pepper Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I have an idea... The wrestling community knows what schools are guilty of recruiting, right? Shame them.. loud sounds of BOOS after the announcement of the teams name during Parade of Champions at the state championships.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 And throw fruit at the coaches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnsDAD Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 With all the open enrollment now how can they enforce anything along these lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 With all the open enrollment now how can they enforce anything along these lines? It's open enrollment (sorta) for education purposes. How it relates to sports participation still has to be handled through the athletic department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 So you are telling me that if a state champ moved in to your district because his parents got a job there and he came in and teched the kid who has been there his whole life in a challenge match it would be "wrong" to let him wrestle? Thats the attitude of everyone deserves a 1st place trophy... I have an idea... The wrestling community knows what schools are guilty of recruiting, right? Shame them.. loud sounds of BOOS after the announcement of the teams name during Parade of Champions at the state championships.. That will show them....we can complain about it all we want but if it is truely as bad as we are being told people need to speak up. Being scared that your name will get smeared is a great exscuse to not do anything...just ask lance armstrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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