the deepest weight???

[Fabio Jr.]

that hurts

[sportsfangms]

I'll take Gelen Robinson as the best athlete hands down, that's 106-HWT.  He's pretty good at all three of the sports he participates in on the high school level. 

[fwrestler]

Just because a bigger guy doesn't know 1001 moves doesn't mean he is any less skilled.

 

I think that's exactly what that means... he doesn't know 1001 moves so he doesn't have as many skills.  And while it's true that a wrestler can be very successful with just a couple of moves executed to perfection, I don't think standing up straight in a collar tie, stalling until you can spin behind your opponent when he shoots and gets caught under your weight, and sloppy throws qualify as high level wrestling skills.

[KarlHungus]

I think that's exactly what that means... he doesn't know 1001 moves so he doesn't have as many skills.  And while it's true that a wrestler can be very successful with just a couple of moves executed to perfection, I don't think standing up straight in a collar tie, stalling until you can spin behind your opponent when he shoots and gets caught under your weight, and sloppy throws qualify as high level wrestling skills.

 

that is clearly what all top upper weights do

[Y2CJ41]

I think that's exactly what that means... he doesn't know 1001 moves so he doesn't have as many skills.  And while it's true that a wrestler can be very successful with just a couple of moves executed to perfection, I don't think standing up straight in a collar tie, stalling until you can spin behind your opponent when he shoots and gets caught under your weight, and sloppy throws qualify as high level wrestling skills.

The WRESTLING skills needed to be successful changes as you change weight classes. Weight classes have different styles and as you change weights you must adapt to the different styles. When I was in college my last four years I went between the 141 and 149lbs weight classes. There were distinct differences between the weight classes in terms of the styles of the wrestlers.  That didn't mean that either weight classes had more wrestlers with better "wrestling skills" as you put it.  It means the styles and what it takes to win are different between weights. Wrestlers at 141 were quicker and wrestled less in ties and wrestlers at 149 were way stronger and wrestled somewhat of a slower pace.

 

The other day in practice I wrestled everyone between 106 and our heavyweight. Against the smaller guys I could wrestle more open and try more flashy stuff.  As the weights went higher I wrestled more in ties and took less shots. If I didn't change my style I wouldn't have been successful. Just because a heavyweight doesn't show of flashy super ducks and granby's doesn't mean he has less wrestling skills.

[fwrestler]

The WRESTLING skills needed to be successful changes as you change weight classes. Weight classes have different styles and as you change weights you must adapt to the different styles. When I was in college my last four years I went between the 141 and 149lbs weight classes. There were distinct differences between the weight classes in terms of the styles of the wrestlers.  That didn't mean that either weight classes had more wrestlers with better "wrestling skills" as you put it.  It means the styles and what it takes to win are different between weights. Wrestlers at 141 were quicker and wrestled less in ties and wrestlers at 149 were way stronger and wrestled somewhat of a slower pace.

 

The other day in practice I wrestled everyone between 106 and our heavyweight. Against the smaller guys I could wrestle more open and try more flashy stuff.  As the weights went higher I wrestled more in ties and took less shots. If I didn't change my style I wouldn't have been successful. Just because a heavyweight doesn't show of flashy super ducks and granby's doesn't mean he has less wrestling skills.

 

Of course you could wrestle more open with the smaller guys, as you probably outweigh them by at least 60 or so pounds.  And of course strategies vary slightly from weight to weight, but I would say that the general styles of lightweights and middleweights are similar for the most part, regardless of small differences in speed and strength.  Not so for the less skilled heavies.  My point is, when you are teaching "wrestling skills" (SHOTS, switches, etc.) to a group of inexperienced wrestlers, do you teach them the skills employed by the lower and middle weights, or the skills employed by the heavier weights?

[Y2CJ41]

Of course you could wrestle more open with the smaller guys, as you probably outweigh them by at least 60 or so pounds.  And of course strategies vary slightly from weight to weight, but I would say that the general styles of lightweights and middleweights are similar for the most part, regardless of small differences in speed and strength.  Not so for the less skilled heavies.  My point is, when you are teaching "wrestling skills" to a group of inexperienced wrestlers, do you teach them the skills employed by the lower and middle weights, or the skills employed by the heavier weights?

 

The strategies do not vary slightly, they vary greatly when you jump from light to middle to heavy. That is why kids that jump multiple weight classes tend to struggle early on until they can adjust to the different styles and skill sets needed to be successful.

 

When teaching to beginning wrestlers we emphasize to the bigger kids to not touch their knees as much and employ more setups from ties(collar, underhook, overhook, etc). We show the bigger guys a high single instead of a swing type single, we show them a blast double instead of a regular double, and so on.  When the middle and light weights are doing granby's the big guys are working stand-ups. When the light and middle weights are practicing legs, the big guys are doing power halfs and bars.

 

On the football field a coach teaches the running backs different skills than the linemen or receivers or quarterbacks. The same goes in wrestling, bigger guys are different and teaching them the same exact things is fruitless.

[fwrestler]

The strategies do not vary slightly, they vary greatly when you jump from light to middle to heavy. That is why kids that jump multiple weight classes tend to struggle early on until they can adjust to the different styles and skill sets needed to be successful.

 

When teaching to beginning wrestlers we emphasize to the bigger kids to not touch their knees as much and employ more setups from ties(collar, underhook, overhook, etc). We show the bigger guys a high single instead of a swing type single, we show them a blast double instead of a regular double, and so on.  When the middle and light weights are doing granby's the big guys are working stand-ups. When the light and middle weights are practicing legs, the big guys are doing power halfs and bars.

 

On the football field a coach teaches the running backs different skills than the linemen or receivers or quarterbacks. The same goes in wrestling, bigger guys are different and teaching them the same exact things is fruitless.

 

When the middle and light weights are doing granbys... when the light and middle weights are practicing legs... you're proving my point.  The light and middle weights have similar and more high level styles compared to the heavyweights.

[Y2CJ41]

So does that mean since you see more power halfs from big guys that they are more skilled at a power half?

 

Is a receiver more skilled because he knows 15 routes while a lineman knows 5 different blocking techniques?

 

Is a sprinter more skilled because he can run faster while a shot putter can throw a heavy ball further?

 

Bigger guys do not have less wrestling skills, they just take different ones to be successful. Different skills are required to take down a 106lber than it is to take down a 250lber.  Different skills are required to turn a 106lber than it is to turn a 250lber. 

[bluegraypanther]

No matter. 120 is still the deepest regardless of weight class styles.

[Jimtown 138]

The WRESTLING skills needed to be successful changes as you change weight classes. Weight classes have different styles and as you change weights you must adapt to the different styles. When I was in college my last four years I went between the 141 and 149lbs weight classes. There were distinct differences between the weight classes in terms of the styles of the wrestlers.  That didn't mean that either weight classes had more wrestlers with better "wrestling skills" as you put it.  It means the styles and what it takes to win are different between weights. Wrestlers at 141 were quicker and wrestled less in ties and wrestlers at 149 were way stronger and wrestled somewhat of a slower pace.

 

The other day in practice I wrestled everyone between 106 and our heavyweight. Against the smaller guys I could wrestle more open and try more flashy stuff.  As the weights went higher I wrestled more in ties and took less shots. If I didn't change my style I wouldn't have been successful. Just because a heavyweight doesn't show of flashy super ducks and granby's doesn't mean he has less wrestling skills.

 

Come on Joe... Flashy?

[benni hanna 79]

All I am saying is there are style preferences and there is no way to gauge these examples. It is like this, anyone can shoot a low single but can they do it  with 220 pounds on their back? With the weight added certain moves are more difficult to accomplish. And you can talk bad about it but it is just preference. Has nothing to do with "garbage wrestling." And yes Gelen isn't the greatest wrestler but other 220s like Braxton Eby know how to handle themselves.

[aoberlin]

When teaching to beginning wrestlers we emphasize to the bigger kids to not touch their knees as much and employ more setups from ties(collar, underhook, overhook, etc).

 

Don't forget the double collar tie. 

[Justdo^it135]

The strategies do not vary slightly, they vary greatly when you jump from light to middle to heavy. That is why kids that jump multiple weight classes tend to struggle early on until they can adjust to the different styles and skill sets needed to be successful.

When teaching to beginning wrestlers we emphasize to the bigger kids to not touch their knees as much and employ more setups from ties(collar, underhook, overhook, etc). We show the bigger guys a high single instead of a swing type single, we show them a blast double instead of a regular double, and so on.  When the middle and light weights are doing granby's the big guys are working stand-ups. When the light and middle weights are practicing legs, the big guys are doing power halfs and bars.

 

On the football field a coach teaches the running backs different skills than the linemen or receivers or quarterbacks. The same goes in wrestling, bigger guys are different and teaching them the same exact things is fruitless.

 

 

I do not believe I have ever seen any individual wrestler struggle when moving from the middle weights of 138-160 to the heavier weights of 170-285. In fact, most who make that transition seem to excell. Two examples that come to mind are steve stahl and trey reese. Both had marginal success at middle weight classes before going on to dominate at the heavy weight classes.

[jchas]

Do the big guys have to pass the body fat test?

Oh yea they are the ones that they put in the no drinking water rule in for.

[fwrestler]

So does that mean since you see more power halfs from big guys that they are more skilled at a power half?

 

Is a receiver more skilled because he knows 15 routes while a lineman knows 5 different blocking techniques?

 

Is a sprinter more skilled because he can run faster while a shot putter can throw a heavy ball further?

 

Bigger guys do not have less wrestling skills, they just take different ones to be successful. Different skills are required to take down a 106lber than it is to take down a 250lber.  Different skills are required to turn a 106lber than it is to turn a 250lber. 

 

Name me a heavyweight that runs a power half better than any lightweight.

[Caleb Spires]

Last year the championship heavyweight at my sectional was Neek Stauffer and Brandon Daniels. They were both pretty fast and pretty exciting for heavyweights. While many heavyweight matches can be boring, there are some that are pretty skilled and can put on good matches.

[fwrestler]

 

I do not believe I have ever seen any individual wrestler struggle when moving from the middle weights of 138-160 to the heavier weights of 170-285. In fact, most who make that transition seem to excell. Two examples that come to mind are steve stahl and trey reese. Both had marginal success at middle weight classes before going on to dominate at the heavy weight classes.

 

Wonder why that is???

[Y2CJ41]

Stahl seemed to have trouble with a guy named Konrath who happened to start his career at 152.

[Y2CJ41]

Fwrestler,

You are obviously so dense that you think because a heavyweight doesn't use a cradle that they are less skilled. Instead of realizing it is more difficult to use a cradle at those weights.

[Y2CJ41]

Trey Reese also started out at 162 and was a pretty darn good athlete, hence the reason he is a college quarterback now.

[Justdo^it135]

The point I am trying to make is that the superior technique of the lower and middle weights can and does translate over very well to the heavy weight classes and results in a lot of success. So, to say that the strategies between light, middle and heavy weight classes greatly differ appears to be incorrect. Solid, basic technique that utilizes high percentage takedown attempts, turns and escapes will dominate at all levels of wrestling.

[rdrodd1]

Trey Reese also started out at 162 and was a pretty darn good athlete, hence the reason he is a college quarterback now.

 

He probably doesn't remember Adam Chalfant either.

[Cosgrove]

hhahhaah is this the deepest weight class or who is the most athletic wrestler in the state hahahah had ot get oyu guys back on track deepest weight would come down most state placers returing at that weight national rankings and so on havng one guys ranked #1 does not make that the deepest weight  ;D

[Y2CJ41]

The point I am trying to make is that the superior technique of the lower and middle weights can and does translate over very well to the heavy weight classes and results in a lot of success. So, to say that the strategies between light, middle and heavy weight classes greatly differ appears to be incorrect. Solid, basic technique that utilizes high percentage takedown attempts, turns and escapes will dominate at all levels of wrestling.

So you are saying their styles didn't change at all when they went up in weight classes to handle the bigger and stronger wrestlers?  How much did you see them wrestle during their senior years or are you just judging this on how they FINISHED their seasons?

 

Stahl had like four losses to Konrath and almost lost to Billy Baker in the ticket round. Both were bigger guys their whole entire career.

 

I remember Reese having some close matches with some no name wrestlers and people saying he wouldn't win state. Obviously he made adjustments throughout the season to be able to handle the different styles and strength at the higher weight class.