ifonly Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 What in the world happened to schools like Lawerence North, Pioneer, Laf Jeff. Many many others but these teams use to have solid teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's called pure laziness from kids now a days. Kids would rather go home and play with the latest and greatest technology that mommy and daddy buys for them. I believe this is the root problem in today's society. This is tough what would like to do? Go to practice everyday and bust your butt and accomplish something in your high school career or go home and eat ice cream sandwiches and drink all the soda you want and play xbox all night long (good gig). Its sad but I think kids are picking the xbox over sports and that is what I see why some programs are suffering. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachM Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not entirely true, or false. LN was runner up at team state last year, teams have rebuilding years. Also, throw Brandon James in there and they are a better squad. The dynamics of Lafayette Jeff have changed considerably over the last ten years and the county schools, Harrison and McCutchen, have benefitted because of this. Pioneer is a tough place to build a program, small rural school and those schools need a coach who will put in more than his share of hours to build a program. Can't say all kids are lazy, look at the success Indiana schools are having at national tournaments. Perry won Disney with their current team, Penn, Mishawaka, HSE, and Columbus east all finished in the championship bracket. Indiana wrestling is getting better every year. You can point to countless things that cause programs to rise and fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matts Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 In most cases you can point fingers at changes in leadership. Special programs have special leaders; it really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Johnson Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't believe at all you can blame ln's drop this year due to laziness graduating 9 seniors from the state runner up team and also going through a major coaching change. the same thing was being said about them when they dropped after back to back state championships. but three years later they were in the final four. so give them time changes that big are hard to overcome quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Spires Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's called pure laziness from kids now a days. Kids would rather go home and play with the latest and greatest technology that mommy and daddy buys for them. I believe this is the root problem in today's society. This is tough what would like to do? Go to practice everyday and bust your butt and accomplish something in your high school career or go home and eat ice cream sandwiches and drink all the soda you want and play xbox all night long (good gig). Its sad but I think kids are picking the xbox over sports and that is what I see why some programs are suffering. ??? I completely disagree with you saying "pure" laziness. Many graduating seniors, injuries, and personal problems can all hurt a team bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniderpanthers Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 In most cases you can point fingers at changes in leadership. Special programs have special leaders; it really is that simple. 100% agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlersrgreat Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 LN has no feeder program, new coaches coming in next year and they don't promote the sport. Dont blame the kids, blame the administration! Just look at their football program and they have 3,500 kids in the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Miller Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It's called pure laziness from kids now a days. Kids would rather go home and play with the latest and greatest technology that mommy and daddy buys for them. I believe this is the root problem in today's society. This is tough what would like to do? Go to practice everyday and bust your butt and accomplish something in your high school career or go home and eat ice cream sandwiches and drink all the soda you want and play xbox all night long (good gig). Its sad but I think kids are picking the xbox over sports and that is what I see why some programs are suffering. ??? This is very true at a lot of smaller schools these days. Our football coach encourages kids to wrestle and we still can't fill 182 and 220. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Scott Miller - be thankful you have a football coach who encourages football players to wrestle . If he does then eventually you may get big kids, but if he doesn't you never will. Football and wrestling go together like no other two sports. It's too bad most football coaches don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 sometimis it comes down to coaches - feeder programs bottom line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 No regionrat, I don't think it comes down to coaches or feeder programs. If an Adult (coach) tells a kid he needs to get bigger if he wants to play - it has a BIG influence on his decision if he is going to wrestle or go to the weight room in the off season. Most big time football programs think kids need to only lift and get bigger or they can't compete. The sad fact is these kids believe if they spend the time in the weight room and lift for football they are going to get big and make varsity and get a scholarship and win state. They think if they don't do what the coach tells them they won't play next year and someone will get ahead of them and take their spot. What they don't understand is if they are a player, the spot is still there and if they play another sport it may even increase their chance of starting. I find it ironic how many kids names that are called on friday night making big plays are kid who wrestle, but these kids coaches tell the team at the end of the season how they need to commit to the weight room and get bigger if they want to play. I have had so many kids not wrestle in high school after wrestling in junior high because they sat they need to lift and get bigger its unbelievable. These adults (coaches) have a BIG influence on their choices. I also understand its easier to go in a weight room and lift than go in a wrestling room and wrestle. There are a lot of coaches who spend time with kids when they are young only to see them not wrestle when they get older because they have been told if they gain so much weight they will play next year. I also understand some kids will use the excuse to lift and get bigger and not wrestle because they just don't have the guts to do it. It's a great excuse to say "I want to lift and get bigger for football" than admit they just don't have the guts to do it! I have done this for 31 years so don't tell me it comes down to coaches and feeder programs. If a football coach encourages his kids to wrestle it will help your program, if not it's an uphill battle. I also understand that wrestling is a tough sport and today's kids are soft. It takes a lot of guts to go out and risk losing by yourself. Most kids today can't do it. It's easier to go hide in a weight room than step out on a mat and maybe lose. Don't make it seem so easy as it comes down to coaches and feeder programs. There are a lot of coaches working their butts off only to see kids not wrestle in high school because an adult (coach) tells them they need to focus on one sport (lift and get big). I can't tell you the number of kids who say I wish I would have wrestled. Shouda, Wouda, Couda What a sad club to be a member of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~B~DOGG~SMASH~ Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 LN will be back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I started wrestling in 1973 and I been hearing this same kind of crap ever since.... ff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlersrgreat Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 LN is last in the conference this year for boys sports and next to last in girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin189 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Scott Miller - be thankful you have a football coach who encourages football players to wrestle . If he does then eventually you may get big kids, but if he doesn't you never will. Football and wrestling go together like no other two sports. It's too bad most football coaches don't get it. I know im going to get bashed for this, but my uncle was a head football coach for Gavit and Lake Central..... He said the best thing for his big football players was to play basketball. Best way to get your foot speed up, and lateral movement. He wrestled too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well said coach Harmon!!! I think the ihsaa should implement a body index chart for football players. Anyone that is considered obese should not be allowed to participate and they should only be allowed to gain a healthy % of body weight per week. More people have health problems from being overweight than underweight in our society. Studies show that overweight kids are more than 10xluck likely to become overweight adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I know im going to get bashed for this, but my uncle was a head football coach for Gavit and Lake Central..... He said the best thing for his big football players was to play basketball. Best way to get your foot speed up, and lateral movement. He wrestled too While that would help too how many football players will end up on the basketball team that only keeps a certain number of kids. I'd rather have football players doing something to help there balance and agility rather than nothing in the winter and spring. Even if your uncle maybe right in some respects sports like wrestling will still serve a greater number of the athletes than basketball will. Like Coach Harmon Our battle right now is with football coaches pushing the kids to lift. Which ends up only being a half hearted lifting routine until the middle of spring anyway. Seems their time could have been better spent learnin body awareness in a winter and/or spring sport and still hit the lifting just as hard as they would otherwise after those seasons. Liftings a piece of the puzzle but learning how to use your body is usually a bigger factor with this age of kids. Doing more athletic activities will aid more in this development than a standard weight rack liftig routine will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangarrray Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I know im going to get bashed for this, but my uncle was a head football coach for Gavit and Lake Central..... He said the best thing for his big football players was to play basketball. Best way to get your foot speed up, and lateral movement. He wrestled too This type of thinking worked so well for him. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I think most football coaches who truly understand proper training and strengthening techniques would agree that wrestling has great parallels to football. I think the word missing from a lot of these statements is the word good. You said coaches sometimes tell their kids to lift and get bigger. You didn't say they were actually good coaches. You said the key was feeder programs or coaches. I would say good coaches or good feeder programs would be the key. Football gives me several upper weights, but I can't fill lower weights hardly at all. Those kids don't seem to exist in our town... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlersrgreat Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I totally agree with all the comments but it starts with the Principles, AD's and then the parents and athletes. Times have changes and schools must understand that and not keeping looking back like they did it 20 years ago. It takes one or two years for a tradition to leave but it takes years to build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muckman_1999 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 As someone who has seen a program that was once strong then collapse, then make the long journey back I make the following observations...some of which apply to all sports and others to wrestling. 1. The number one reason for a collapse in any program is intrinsic to a lack of leadership, stability, and commitment from the people hiring and then running the program at the high school level. This includes the school board, the Principal, the AD, and then the head coach. Athletes come in cycles, sometimes you have them and sometimes you dont. You have to have dedicated coaches at the HS level who can recruit volunteers for the club and build a community wide love for the sport. One bad hire that does not work out can do damage that is lasting and difficult to reverse. Which brings me to my 2nd point. 2. Wrestling, and all sports for that matter, are going to face many challenges from the current budget situation in the state of Indiana. If the coach is the #1 factor in the success of the program, the new generation of coaches will find a rough go in it in the state. Athletes will find school boards requiring activity fees to even be in the sport. Instead of having 3 paid coaches now you might have 2 or even 1. 3. Football coaches get a lot of blames from the wrestling community. Every coach in every program wants their kids dedicated to their sport in the offseason. I have seen kids quit wrestling because they have to run for CC all winter. That is part of the business right now. In my experience every coach in every sport is running an off-season program. If they do not, they will not be successful, the kids will lost interest, and the program will suffer. 4. The argument about the kids being lazy today is the same thing I have been hearing since i have been in hs. Wrestling is a difficult sport. Most kids who quit just say they dont like it. It is a hard sport, especially if you are not competitive. Other sports are difficult too-gymnastics for girls is a grinding sport on their bodies, CC is a highly demanding sport that requires a lot of discipline. If the kids though develop a love for the game as they grow up, have supportive adults, and a relationship with their coach over time they will stick with it and get the rewards that athletics provide. Otherwise it is too easy to quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 LN has no feeder program, new coaches coming in next year and they don't promote the sport. Dont blame the kids, blame the administration! Just look at their football program and they have 3,500 kids in the school. You can't blame the administrators or coaches at LN. The current coaches are both State Championship Coaches from different eras. And, ironically, they are both administrators at the school. LN has always been a premiere wrestling school and they will be back. Due to some circumstances out of the school's control, the current coaches did what was right and volunteered their time to the program on top of their administrative duties. The AD, Grant Nesbit, is also very accomplished with multiple state championships during his tenure. I wouldn't worry about LN. Football is another story. I think it is evident that certain school prioritize major sports like football or basketball as their primary. Heck, look even to the university level for that - Indiana, Notre Dame, etc. Same goes with high school. Look at Perry Meridian - never relevant in football/basketball, but stalwarts in wrestling. You can make hundreds of examples like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2212 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Coach Harmon and any other coach blaming FB coaches for not encouraging kids to wrestle, Do you lift your kids in-season and out? If not, then don't complain about their lack of encouragement to wrestle. A FB coach keeping his job depends on the team winning, and that won't happen without strong kids. FB coaches can't allow kids to take three months off from lifting, plus wrestling coaches encouraging weight cutting. If wrestling coaches encourage in-season weight lifting, discourage cutting weight, and runs a solid program, very few FB coaches would discourage kids from wrestling. I never had issues getting upper weights to wrestle because of the things mentioned above and the FB coaches were always supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unemployed103 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Pioneer only had a few good years when they had an exceptional coach. Tim Spray was there for 7 or 8 years and they were really competitive for a school there size during his tenure. Unfortunately for Pioneer, Tim moved to Wisconsin about three years ago. Since then Chuck Ladow coached them for two years and they were decent but even he has moved on now. That's three coaching changes in a very short period of time and the numbers just aren't there because of it. It's very hard to get numbers out without a coach that has built relationships in middle school and up. The current coach is in his first year there and they only have about 10 kids in the room. I think if he stays for a while and works on his middle school program the numbers will come back and they'll be competitive again but without some stability it's very hard to get numbers out in a small school, especially for a lay coach such has the current coach at pioneer. As for other programs in general, my guess is it all comes down to what others have said. head coaching changes are hard to swallow even at big schools and if the community isn't behind the new coach or the administration changes and isn't behind the sport anymore things are going to be very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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