Darrick Snyder Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I am hearing that the IHSWCA new team state proposal for team state involves some kind of hall of fame thing where a team can only go every 4 years. This is the MOST ridiculous thing I have EVER heard. Why in the world would we determine a Team State team state champion when a team can only go every 4 years? Or at least not every year? This is STUPID. I could not be more in favor of determining a true team state champion, but if you can only go every 4 years as long as I am the Head Coach at Mishawaka I can not see the point in sending my team. This makes NO sense. DUMB. Snyder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeinandout Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I would rather have the genius ratings determine the team state champ like the BCS or something. Coach Snyder, you have to be mistaken because that doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestler60160 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Might as well make semi state the Team State then. Hit a different one each year.........yep, DUMB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pm1981 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Don't we see the same teams in football year after year. Carmel, Warrem Central, Center Grove, Ben Davis, Chatard, Cathedral. The best teams will be there year after year. That is how life is. Life isn't fair that is what makes wreslting so great. It isn't fair that sometimes the better athlete wins and not the kid who works harder. Next we won't let any two time state champs be eligible for a 3rd or 4th because we are tired of seeing the same names make it to state. This isn't little league where everyone gets a trophy. Classing the tournament makes sense, but not eliminating a teams post season chances beause they are too good. Just crazy if there is truth the rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Riesen Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Does anyone have the actual details of the new proposal? The coaches association has the chance to create a team series of thier liking and they come up with a rediculous purposal like this? Just class the tournament invite 8 teams a year and be done with it. If the IHSAA gives you a chance to grow the sport and you throw the opportunity away its your own fault. We need to get new people involved with the coaches association at its highest level if we throw this opportunity away. Heaven forbid we bring the 8 best teams down from a couple of classes and have an actually state tournament. Who cares if its the same teams each year if they are the best teams? Invite the best every year or don't have the tournament at all. By not having the best teams is just another tournament and it will draw small crowds and a lack of interest. So get your heads out of your butts and get something on the table that the state of Indiana actually wants to be a part of. If the Belmont duals is better wrestling then the state tournament then I for one will never attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The IHSWCA officers and regional representatives from around the state met yesterday afternoon. The IHSWCA Team State Duals was indeed one of the major topics of discussion. After releasing the event format and date at the fall clinic, we have had a fair amount of feedback from coaches around the state. Although most people like the idea of the team duals sponsored by the coaches' association, the sentiment from a number of coaches is that it is going to create a scheduling nightmare across the state. Throughout our discussions yesterday, we felt like this was going to put an unnecessary burden on coaches/teams in having to choose between staying in their traditional January 5 event or participating in a coaches' association sponsored event. Not to mention, what if the school who has hosted an event on Jan. 5 for many years wanted to participate in the Team State Duals event themselves. The other sticking point that was brought up was the fall out that could likely occur with athletic directors across the state who would also be negatively impacted by scheduling problems. After much discussion, we have decided to switch gears initially for our 2012-13 coaches' association event. The details still have to be hammered out, but we will be hosting a Hall of Fame Classic much like they do in other sports. It will be held over the holiday break. It will still be a "classed" event, so we can keep the spirit of participation by schools of all sizes alive. We hope that it will be fan friendly in that a school will know that they are going to compete at say 11am and 6pm on the given day, so fans from that particular team would be able to better plan a day of activities in the Indianapolis area over the holidays. It should be noted that the coaches association does still hope to host and sponsor a classed team state duals in the future, but we feel that logistically we cannot pull this off initially without placing hardship on schools across the state. We are an association that is supposed to help and support coaches in our sport... not put undue burden on our membership. We hope that a Hall of Fame Classic event will allow us to ease our way into this process while still celebrating the sport of wrestling. Coach McCormick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 This doesn't sound dumb nor does it sound like something that will serve to crown a team state champion either. Doesn't sound like its intended to be a "team state" event. Some sort of competition sounds better than none at all. Give the parties involved a chance to work it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I see where the commitee is coming from with going with the "hall of Fame" event. But I still don't think we are ever going to get a all inclusive team tourney unless everyone bites the bullet and agrees to change schedules. If we keep going back and forth then we will have issues' with messing up some schedules. We host our Shadday Memorial tourney on the 6th and I was very much prepared to forgo it if we got the chance at a team championship. My initial plan was to still host our meet either with our reserves or host it with out us there. Either way if we got invited we were coming. I think the "Hall of Fame" meet idea is cool but I am not so sure I would forgo hosting our own meet for a tourney like this if the top teams aren't going to be chosen year after year. Madison is far from a top team in the state but that is our goal. I don't want to wait my turn to get invited knowing if I wait long enough I might get in. I know the Committee has been put in a no win situation unless this tourney is a all inclusive event and from what the IHSAA has given, doing that might be a nightmare logistically if not impossible at all. My initial idea when I went to the initial planning meeting was to hold this event the week before christmas, two classes, Mon-Sect, Wed-Regional, Sat-State. Here is the part of the plan that would take some serious thought. 32 Sectional Sites per class unless you could find a venue to host both classes (each site would have 4-5 teams per class) 8 Regional sites of 4 teams. Then the 8 Regional Champs advance to State. This would take a tremendous amount of work to organize and get worked out, but if we decide on a plan and stick with it then start working on logistics a year ,or more if it takes it, in advance this model could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Riesen Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I am sorry Mr McCormick but I am going to respectfully disagree. When 80% of the coaches say they want a classed team series and the IHSAA gives the association the opportunity you have to jump on it. The association dropped the ball big time on this. If you do not have the time or do not want to put in the effort to making Indiana wrestling better on the team side then maybe someone else should fill in. You complain about scheduling problems with schools, but the truth is a holiday classic still has those same problems. Mr Snyder does not see a reason to change his schedule for this event and I am willing to bet most other teams are not taking this well either. Also how is this different then any other tourney? It will be about the 5th best event over the holidays so how does this create any attention to the sport? Why would more fans be in attendance? Do you and the association not get the opportunity you have in front of you or is this just lack of effort? Why not find a big 5a school with 3 gyms. Slap 4 mats in each of them. Invite the best 8 teams in 3 classes. Wrestle two pools of 4 per class and the winners of the pools wrestle for the state title. Its simple, its one location, it has meaning, it has several matches, and it declares a state champion. Basically it is worth changing a schedule for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGelarden Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How about the weekend before sectionals? To me that would be about as good a time as any for a "team state" kind of dual series. Everyone would have their lineups where they want them by then - injuries could have been worked through - most schools are done with the semester, so as not to interfere with school. And I don't want to offend anyone - but I don't think there are that many super strong invitationals that weekend as well. Besides if you know anything about coaching - sometimes when your down a bit - if an amazing team is plucked from your invite - it might be better than getting your team ripped up - heading into the sectional. It would be late enough that the coaches could vote the 4-8 schools per class that they would want to see. If I were asked to attend - I'd drop everything to attend. The normal power schools probably would just learn to leave this weekend open - and those that are on an up year - coaches and even AD's would probably be honored to be invited or attend. Even if you figure in the cost to break a contract (which I don't think many schools would enforce) - it's pretty minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How does team state tournament count presently against a wrestler's maximum amount of weigh-ins for the season in a multi-week tournament scenario? How would each of these new proposals impact the weigh-in criteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How about the weekend before sectionals? To me that would be about as good a time as any for a "team state" kind of dual series. Everyone would have their lineups where they want them by then - injuries could have been worked through - most schools are done with the semester, so as not to interfere with school. And I don't want to offend anyone - but I don't think there are that many super strong invitationals that weekend as well. Besides if you know anything about coaching - sometimes when your down a bit - if an amazing team is plucked from your invite - it might be better than getting your team ripped up - heading into the sectional. It would be late enough that the coaches could vote the 4-8 schools per class that they would want to see. If I were asked to attend - I'd drop everything to attend. The normal power schools probably would just learn to leave this weekend open - and those that are on an up year - coaches and even AD's would probably be honored to be invited or attend. Even if you figure in the cost to break a contract (which I don't think many schools would enforce) - it's pretty minimal. Most of the conference championships are that weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I am hearing that the IHSWCA new team state proposal for team state involves some kind of hall of fame thing where a team can only go every 4 years. This is the MOST ridiculous thing I have EVER heard. Why in the world would we determine a Team State team state champion when a team can only go every 4 years? Or at least not every year? This is STUPID. I could not be more in favor of determining a true team state champion, but if you can only go every 4 years as long as I am the Head Coach at Mishawaka I can not see the point in sending my team. This makes NO sense. DUMB. Snyder It is easy to call something dumb when you know little about the discussion that happened at the meeting you did not attend. If you would have been there you would known that this is not a means of determining a Team State champion, but a way to showcase wrestling. What is really stupid is when people gripe and complain, but are not willing to actually do anything other than talk. Would you be willing to do the work and spend the countless hours to pull off a "real" State Dual Tournament....I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGelarden Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Oh yes - conference tourneys. You can see why I wasn't on the committee! How about this thought. The state has wanted our individual tourney to be 3 weeks. What if we went to a three week individual tourney - eliminating one of the rounds - but finishing the state finals on the same date. With the week that is created - you could hold your dual state event. There wouldn't be any tournaments in the way then. I guess then everyone would get what they want - coaches, fans, state organization. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowrestling Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm just assuming.........and we all know what that does, that the "IHSWCA Holiday Classic" will not interfere with the Al Smith or Connersville Tournaments? There are 64 pretty good teams at those events during this time, and I doubt anyone would want to drop out of those tournaments, as it is fairly difficult to get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 They add two weeks to the end of the season to complete a team event that would be the most ideal time for it. Not sure the IHSAA would like that idea though. While were are add it tack another week of training onto the start of the season, so we have enough time to train several kids how to wrestle correctly before they step on to the mat for the first time ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowrestling Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 They add two weeks to the end of the season and that would be the most ideal time for it. Not sure the IHSAA would like that idea though. The IHSAA already shot that idea down. They said once the last match in the Individual State Tournament is wrestled, the season is officially over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The IHSAA already shot that idea down. They said once the last match in the Individual State Tournament is wrestled, the season is officially over. Could the ISWA and IHSWCA work together to come up with a State Folkstyle Dual Tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The IHSAA already shot that idea down. They said once the last match in the Individual State Tournament is wrestled, the season is officially over. I mean move the calander around a little so there is a two week gap available right before the IHSAA Individual Series begins. But, again I'm guessing if they don't like adjusting stuff that's not going to happen either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Oh yes - conference tourneys. You can see why I wasn't on the committee! How about this thought. The state has wanted our individual tourney to be 3 weeks. What if we went to a three week individual tourney - eliminating one of the rounds - but finishing the state finals on the same date. With the week that is created - you could hold your dual state event. There wouldn't be any tournaments in the way then. I guess then everyone would get what they want - coaches, fans, state organization. Just a thought. Sectionals would then need to be around 19 teams which would lead us to two options 1. Sectional no wrestle-backs and top four advance 2. Sectional would need to be two days long I do not see that either would be a good thing as we simply have too many teams to have anything less than a four week tournament series with only the state finals being two days long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Could the ISWA and IHSWCA work together to come up with a State Folkstyle Dual Tournament? I sugguested doing something like that originally when we heard about losing Team State. Same basic idea as all of these All-Star type competitions we have after the season is out. But many people seemed to think that wasn't worth trying since some of the athletes may be in other sports or don't want to pay soeme type of card fee for it. However, I'm not sure it will effect a huge number of participants and most of those teams probably have a large number of athletes who would already be participating in the spring wrestling associations anyway. I would still think that may be at least a possible short term alternative if no other in season competiton could be formed at this time due to scheduling changes that would need to be resolved over the next few years. Not sure why the ISWA hasn't tried to promote some type of team dual state event for Freestyle/Folkstyle during the off-season. You let teams know two years out its coming up and I would think several clubs may be interested and could get an area team together. Adding the excitement of a team competiton where your team/club can win a dual title may even help get some more high school guys out for the off-season and participating in individual events, as well. Can't call it a true high school vs. high school event due to IHSAA rules, but ruels can be written by the ISWA that basically makes it close to the same thing. I'm guessing a few other states may do a similar thing. Would be a great team tune up prior to some of the national event over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I would suggest we work to having a stronger and more organized coaches association so that the IHSAA will take our proposals and concerns more seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 It is easy to call something dumb when you know little about the discussion that happened at the meeting you did not attend. If you would have been there you would known that this is not a means of determining a Team State champion, but a way to showcase wrestling. What is really stupid is when people gripe and complain, but are not willing to actually do anything other than talk. Would you be willing to do the work and spend the countless hours to pull off a "real" State Dual Tournament....I don't think so. Coach I know this might not been directed at me but since I am am "griping" I figured I would chime in. I did volunteer to be on the team state commitee when we first started it last year went to the initial meeting at Franklin then was never invited to any of the other planning meetings that happened before this last one. I had a family event on sunday since this is my last free weekend before the grind starts haha or I would of been there as I did get a email from Coach McCormick about meeting the day of it. As I get older I feel more attracted to getting involved and I really want to be able to say I have helped our wrestling community for the better. The ISWA event idea was also brought up in that initial meeting as Mr Rosbottom was there in attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsk10135 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 What if the teams dropped duals for the "State Series"? Top 8 teams in each class. Example: Quarterfinals take place on Wednesday of Week 1 in January. Top four teams in each class host. Semis take place on Wednesday of Week 2 in January. Top 2 teams left host. Finals take place on Wednesday of Week 3 in January. All 3 classes wrestle the Championship round at the same venue. I think it would be easy to get teams to drop duals than tourneys. Most teams see their duals opponents in a tournament somewhere along the season. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 What if the teams dropped duals for the "State Series"? Top 8 teams in each class. Example: Quarterfinals take place on Wednesday of Week 1 in January. Top four teams in each class host. Semis take place on Wednesday of Week 2 in January. Top 2 teams left host. Finals take place on Wednesday of Week 3 in January. All 3 classes wrestle the Championship round at the same venue. I think it would be easy to get teams to drop duals than tourneys. Most teams see their duals opponents in a tournament somewhere along the season. Thoughts? Even that would be complicated, since the duals are usually important conference and sectional opponents, necessary for determining individual seeding--and in some cases part of determining an overall team conference champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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