The Guru Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 So it's begun... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015290003_titleix11.html Is it too late for these maniacal man-haters to be stopped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccbig Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 So it's begun... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015290003_titleix11.html Is it too late for these maniacal man-haters to be stopped? I'm a strong supporter of woman's/girl's sports. I get extremely angry when the school's at all levels answer to equaling the playing fields is eliminating a men's/boy's sports program instead of expanding more opportunities for women's/girl's programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Vote Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guru Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 Title 9 is legislated radical feminism. These people actually believe the only reason men out-participate women in athletics is discrimination. Not the inherent and inescapable differences between the sexes. Common sense people see this for what it is. "The number of Division 1 men's gymnastics teams shrunk from 59 to 17 between 1981 and 2004; wrestling teams declined from 146 to 86; and even the number of Division 1A football teams ? the villains in the eyes of Title IX's most active proponents ? fell from 137 to 117. This isn't good for sports, and it's not good for women. "--Carrie Lukas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Campbell Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Title IX is not good for anyone in this economy. Many sports are struggling to maintain their budgets and Title IX almost forces their hands to drop programs due to the inability to fund additional programs. So in my opinion equality does not equate progressive thinking! It is now becoming the scapegoat schools can use to drop programs to save money....always about the money!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pski Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Heck, I just found out last night the Milan School Board adopted a new policy prohibiting co-ed teams where the oppostion fields boys-only teams. Because of this new policy I was told that my girls could not come out for the wrestling team. ??? Now how is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I wouldn't think a school board could do that but I don't know. psssssssssssssssss Pski...is there not one team during the season that has a female wrestler ? If so, then I think your girls could wrestle anyway. ff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strub1 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I would expect East Central to have one girl wrestler this year and I know South Dearborn, Connersville, and Franklin County will have at least one on their HS teams this coming season. I believe that the IHSAA would have something to say here. HS wrestling is in need of more numbers and having more girls wrestlers will only help, especially in IN since they do not keep track of how many women wrestle. The issue with Title IX has been going on for quite awhile. Getting the budgets worked out with the college programs is something that teams need to investigate. Not one college women's wrestling program gives a full athletic scholarship to their wrestlers. But whenever a program starts, the team is filled very quickly with women from all over the country. I am not saying this is the one and only fix for this issue, but having a women's teams will help even out these numbers. Women wrestlers want more opportunities at the top and will go across the country and pay for their education to be on a women's team. HS women's teams across the country will be the key to progressing women's wrestling. The more women's team the less of a strain Title IX will have on the men's programs. Darren Strub, ISWA Women's Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I would expect East Central to have one girl wrestler this year and I know South Dearborn, Connersville, and Franklin County will have at least one on their HS teams this coming season. I believe that the IHSAA would have something to say here. HS wrestling is in need of more numbers and having more girls wrestlers will only help, especially in IN since they do not keep track of how many women wrestle. The issue with Title IX has been going on for quite awhile. Getting the budgets worked out with the college programs is something that teams need to investigate. Not one college women's wrestling program gives a full athletic scholarship to their wrestlers. But whenever a program starts, the team is filled very quickly with women from all over the country. I am not saying this is the one and only fix for this issue, but having a women's teams will help even out these numbers. Women wrestlers want more opportunities at the top and will go across the country and pay for their education to be on a women's team. HS women's teams across the country will be the key to progressing women's wrestling. The more women's team the less of a strain Title IX will have on the men's programs. Darren Strub, ISWA Women's Director I have bragged / argued this point before, often citing my experience since I moved to CA. I won't rehash it all in fear of producing another firestorm, but I will share the following video clip about a documentary being filmed about my favorite female wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strub1 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Without women's wrestling in HS in Indiana, awood1 you are not able to see what we could produce here. Especially in the higher weights!! Most girls don't stick with wrestling in HS because they simply get beat up wrestling the heavier and stronger guys and cannot grow into the sport. California has HS women's wrestling and having a young lady be 38-0 is not only great, but likely. We have many young men reach that level every year in Indiana. For close to home, look no further than our current star Kayla Miracle. We also have stars that just graduated - Sarah Hildebrandt and Demi Strub. If IN had HS women's wrestling, all three of these women would have gone undefeated this year!! Getting HS women's wrestling is the key here. As I said earlier, the more women wrestling in HS, the more college programs there will be. Even dare I say, a D1 women's wrestling program. All of this will help men's wrestling as a by-product!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Hull Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I agree whole heartedly that Indiana needs women wrestling. After going out to Oklahoma City for the Junior Duals and getting a chance to see the defending National Champion OKC Women's wrestling team, not only was I intrigued but i was also inspired. So much so was I insired that I am planning on creating a women's program for central Indiana next year that could compete somewhere and anywhere. I have communicated with some of those ladies at OKC, many of which would destroy some of our boys, on coming to Indiana to put on a clinic next year. I was so impressed with them and they are definietly advocates. They also asked me when I thhough Indiana would/could sanction women's wrestling and I didnt have any answers for them. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Without women's wrestling in HS in Indiana, awood1 you are not able to see what we could produce here. Especially in the higher weights!! Most girls don't stick with wrestling in HS because they simply get beat up wrestling the heavier and stronger guys and cannot grow into the sport. California has HS women's wrestling and having a young lady be 38-0 is not only great, but likely. We have many young men reach that level every year in Indiana. For close to home, look no further than our current star Kayla Miracle. We also have stars that just graduated - Sarah Hildebrandt and Demi Strub. If IN had HS women's wrestling, all three of these women would have gone undefeated this year!! Getting HS women's wrestling is the key here. As I said earlier, the more women wrestling in HS, the more college programs there will be. Even dare I say, a D1 women's wrestling program. All of this will help men's wrestling as a by-product!! Don't mistake my input as anything other than supporting/introducing the potential of women's wrestling. When Tianna started wrestling in CA it was the exact same set of conditions as girl's have in IN. There were a lot of girls that had to wrestle boy's all season before going to Fargo...Now they have the opportunity to wrestle girls, be a section / region / state champion. And Tianna is now wrestling in college. In my mind, on the selfish side of things, that means one more male wrestler that is eliminated from elimination by the Title IX beast!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Let's not get carried away. As usual - a few of you point out the EXCEPTION to the rule and put it forth as if it is representative. Sure Ms. Miracle and the young lady in the documentary are something to think about. However, not what I would call representative. Another point to keep in mind is that it is NOT just $. I know several wrestling programs that were dropped para T9 that were self-sufficient from alumni endowments that were shut down to add women's sports (lacrosse in one instance) that have lost $ since their incorporation on campus.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Let's not get carried away. As usual - a few of you point out the EXCEPTION to the rule and put it forth as if it is representative. Sure Ms. Miracle and the young lady in the documentary are something to think about. However, not what I would call representative. I agree with this. I'm all for women's wrestling teams, but not women wrestling men. If a girl wants to wrestle in Indiana she should have to petition the ihsaa. There should only be a few girls wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I agree with this. I'm all for women's wrestling teams, but not women wrestling men. If a girl wants to wrestle in Indiana she should have to petition the ihsaa. There should only be a few girls wrestling. And who / how would this "petition" be reviewed? Your suggesting that someone would stand in judgment of each case individually to decide if a girl is allowed to wrestle? And what would be the criteria? Are they allowed only if they are flat chested lesbians who don't cry? So the guys will now be submitted to similar "petitioning" procedures too right? I mean I would feel a lot more comfortable if we required everyone be <15% body fat (everyone knows the fat guys can't wrestle) and certify that they don't have any homosexual tendencies (I mean the whole controversy of boys vs. girls seems to center on some uncontrollable urges by teenagers). This sort of thinking can't help but bring a Hoosier classic to mind. As John Cougar Mellencamp stated, "I fight authority, authority always wins." Wrestling has done their best to fight Title IX tooth and nail....and each year we see how successful that method is as more D1 programs drop out of existence. So along comes a savior....an effortless solution to the problem. Simply allow women the opportunity to wrestle and watch as the popularity and controversy grows and more states do the right thing and form separate women's programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 And who / how would this "petition" be reviewed? Your suggesting that someone would stand in judgment of each case individually to decide if a girl is allowed to wrestle? And what would be the criteria? Are they allowed only if they are flat chested lesbians who don't cry? So the guys will now be submitted to similar "petitioning" procedures too right? I mean I would feel a lot more comfortable if we required everyone be <15% body fat (everyone knows the fat guys can't wrestle) and certify that they don't have any homosexual tendencies (I mean the whole controversy of boys vs. girls seems to center on some uncontrollable urges by teenagers). This sort of thinking can't help but bring a Hoosier classic to mind. As John Cougar Mellencamp stated, "I fight authority, authority always wins." Wrestling has done their best to fight Title IX tooth and nail....and each year we see how successful that method is as more D1 programs drop out of existence. So along comes a savior....an effortless solution to the problem. Simply allow women the opportunity to wrestle and watch as the popularity and controversy grows and more states do the right thing and form separate women's programs. So you are in favor of boys playing on the girls volleyball team, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm just curious as to how these female programs are going to get started. Will they be clubs like lacrosse is now or will the coaches pushing for these try to get them sanctioned by the IHSAA as an official sport with a state championship? Frankly, I can't imagine more than 100 schools from across the entire state even fielding a team. Of those schools, I can't imagine there being more than 5 girls, on average, per team. So.....500 girls from across the entire state involved in a sport and I think that's being generous. That just doesn't sound viable. How long would it take for that number to double? Somebody with some sort of knowledge here, please help me. Also, would the dominant girls in the sport right now want to lower themselves to wrestle in the "girls" division? I doubt it. They'd mop up for sure with no competition but the sport would suffer without the presence of their "stardom". Certainly a sport has to start somewhere. I get that. For some reason the Olympics has been recognizing women's wrestling and I don't get that. The women aren't shown anymore than the men as far as primetime viewing is concerned so what is supporting this sport? Can't be advertising or marketing deals. Guess I'm just a crumudgeon but I'd rather see high schools and USA Wrestling pour more resources into boys/mens wrestling rather than waste their time on girls/womens. Face it, I don't think the general population of women across the country are going to start tuning in to women's wrestling in the Olympics like they do for women's figure skating or women's gymnastics. I just really don't understand what the fascination with women's wrestling is and how it has enough momentum to be maintained. Sorry Coaches Miracle and Strub, I just don' get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 So you are in favor of boys playing on the girls volleyball team, right? Anywhere that there isn't a boys volleyball team, ABSOLUTELY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I'm just curious as to how these female programs are going to get started. Will they be clubs like lacrosse is now or will the coaches pushing for these try to get them sanctioned by the IHSAA as an official sport with a state championship? Frankly, I can't imagine more than 100 schools from across the entire state even fielding a team. Of those schools, I can't imagine there being more than 5 girls, on average, per team. So.....500 girls from across the entire state involved in a sport and I think that's being generous. That just doesn't sound viable. How long would it take for that number to double? Somebody with some sort of knowledge here, please help me. Also, would the dominant girls in the sport right now want to lower themselves to wrestle in the "girls" division? I doubt it. They'd mop up for sure with no competition but the sport would suffer without the presence of their "stardom". Certainly a sport has to start somewhere. I get that. For some reason the Olympics has been recognizing women's wrestling and I don't get that. The women aren't shown anymore than the men as far as primetime viewing is concerned so what is supporting this sport? Can't be advertising or marketing deals. Guess I'm just a crumudgeon but I'd rather see high schools and USA Wrestling pour more resources into boys/mens wrestling rather than waste their time on girls/womens. Face it, I don't think the general population of women across the country are going to start tuning in to women's wrestling in the Olympics like they do for women's figure skating or women's gymnastics. I just really don't understand what the fascination with women's wrestling is and how it has enough momentum to be maintained. Sorry Coaches Miracle and Strub, I just don' get it. You stepped on a slippery slope. If you are against a sport because no one watches it, or supports it financially, or a very small portion of the population supports it, you may want to look in the mirror? Heck, statistically no one in the US competes in Greco Roman...let's dump it from the Olympics? I certainly hope not! As numbers go, freestyle is WAY behind skateboarding, darts and bowling. And when I went to the Olympics in Atlanta I saw sports that I didn't even know were sports!! Handball? Judo? Synchronized swimming? So how does it start and how is it supported? It starts just like it is now. Girls wrestle boys and people beetch about it. Then a few "girls only" tnmts. start popping up. Then the IHSAA gets enough pressure and suggests that some version of a girls tnmt. be held. In IN that would probably mean a "regional" of all girls from 4 quadrants of the state with the top 4 at each site qualifying for a state championship. VIOLA 2 weekends, and you have girls wrestling. It ain't perfect and it doesn't happen overnight. Yes the girls that are wrestling now will pound the snot out of the girls that are "trying it" for awhile. Just like kids from the Mater Dei's and Mishawaka's of the world pound the snot out of tiny country bumpkin kids that "try it". And this year, being the first where a girl's state championship, was not without controversy. Case in point, Jennifer Page http://bvwrestling.com/p3717.html. She was a senior who had wrestled Varsity on Bella Vista's team through HS. She was a far better than average wrestler to even make the line-up and usually made at least the semi-finals of every big tnmt. she entered. As a senior, she faced the idea of wrestling in the boys tnmt (where she had zero chance of winning a state championship) or wrestling in the girl's tnmt. The CIF was clear when it started the girl's wrestling tnmt. series. A female wrestler could wrestle in either tnmt. but not both! She decided to wrestle the boy's tnmt. and qualified 2nd in her league, 2nd in her section, and finished 1 match short of qualifying for state (which is much tougher than qualifying for state in IN) In years to come, very few (if any) will chose to wrestle in the "boy's" tnmt. and I am sure the CIF will eventually not even allow it. But each year the competition for the girls will be tougher and the quality of wrestling better. Think of the first soccer, lacrosse, or rugby teams in IN....they sucked!! But as the sports grow, so does the level of the competition. Hope this in some way responds to your questions and comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I guess the difference I see is that (and I'm going to step in it again) there is a difference between the sexes. The sports you mentioned (soccer, lacrosse, rugby) are way different than wrestling. NOTHING is as physical as wrestling (rugby included). Since you live in CA and they have a relatively mature girls h.s. wrestling program, how many girls wrestle in that massive state? I'm going to guess somewhere between 1000 and 2000. That is a miniscule % based on population. Just because a couple of girls can more than compete with boys in a state doesn't necessitate starting an individual sport for them. I just don't believe that if girls have a platform that they will necessarily take advantage of it. Do you think a girls h.s. football program should be started? I would say that you would be more apt to find 10 or 15 girls per school to play football than you would more than 5 to wrestle. They could do 8 on 8 games like they do in the underpopulated portions of the southwest. I really don't understand this championing of starting a girls wrestling program unless it's somehow going to help bring the numbers up for the boys side and I don't see that happening at all. Also, other than Hildebrandt, how many of these better than average girls wrestlers are not daughters of h.s. coaches? Zero. These dad's have lived and breathed wrestling and kids are pretty intuitive. They get involved in the things dad spends his free time doing if they want to be around him so a few of the daughters of coaches start wrestling. Notice I said a few. Still don't get it and never will. I'm sorry but a girls h.s. wrestling program would be a waste of resources and time. I've no problem with girls mixing it up with boys if that is their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I guess the difference I see is that (and I'm going to step in it again) there is a difference between the sexes. The sports you mentioned (soccer, lacrosse, rugby) are way different than wrestling. NOTHING is as physical as wrestling (rugby included). Since you live in CA and they have a relatively mature girls h.s. wrestling program, how many girls wrestle in that massive state? I'm going to guess somewhere between 1000 and 2000. That is a miniscule % based on population. Just because a couple of girls can more than compete with boys in a state doesn't necessitate starting an individual sport for them. I just don't believe that if girls have a platform that they will necessarily take advantage of it. Do you think a girls h.s. football program should be started? I would say that you would be more apt to find 10 or 15 girls per school to play football than you would more than 5 to wrestle. They could do 8 on 8 games like they do in the underpopulated portions of the southwest. I really don't understand this championing of starting a girls wrestling program unless it's somehow going to help bring the numbers up for the boys side and I don't see that happening at all. Also, other than Hildebrandt, how many of these better than average girls wrestlers are not daughters of h.s. coaches? Zero. These dad's have lived and breathed wrestling and kids are pretty intuitive. They get involved in the things dad spends his free time doing if they want to be around him so a few of the daughters of coaches start wrestling. Notice I said a few. Still don't get it and never will. I'm sorry but a girls h.s. wrestling program would be a waste of resources and time. I've no problem with girls mixing it up with boys if that is their choice. I reread what I wrote and what you wrote and I left out probably the most important bit of information from my side. At the CORE of why I think it is a great idea is that it removes wrestling from the Title IX discussion. Football gets involved because of the disproportionate # of participants, but most others have a counterpart has an approximate equal # of scholarships / opportunities. Baseball has softball, men's basketball has women's basketball, men's track and field has women's track and field, etc. etc. Any girl's program without a male counterpart just helps compensate for football. Wrestling sticks out like a sore thumb to administrators looking to "fix" their Title IX problems and the addition of a women's program puts wrestling in at least the same category as tennis, track and field and soccer when it comes time to make budget cuts. Add in the logic that it has an Olympic counterpart, requires little capital outlay (buy a mat, most already have a gym for basketball), and you are standing on much more stable ground than you are now. Important to remember that people in the Midwest are somewhat jaded to the urgency of the matter. The Big Ten is the only conference that has a lot of wrestling teams for some unknown reason. ??? : Look at the ridiculous number of Pac 10, Big 12, SEC and other mega-conferences that half less than half of their schools with wrestling programs. Since I have moved here I have seen Fresno State and UC Davis both yank the rug out from under their wrestling programs. When EVERY program is marching the bursar's office steps as budget cuts are made every (mens only) wrestling program has a big red target on their chest as administrators think "We can fix our Title IX AND our budget problems with one cut!! It's a no-brainer! At worst we upset a dozen guys and those are the neanderthal, knuckle dragging, trouble makers that chased our basketball team out of the gym!" Sum total: I support women's wrestling as it is the best way to protect men's wrestling. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Important to remember that people in the Midwest are somewhat jaded to the urgency of the matter. The Big Ten is the only conference that requires a wrestling team as part of it's charter and requires it for membership. That is a false statement, the Big 10 does not have anything of that sort in its by-laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 That is a false statement, the Big 10 does not have anything of that sort in its by-laws. Sorry Y2, but that's what I was told. Based on the fact that the results would indicate as much, I had no reason to doubt it. But it is all hearsay without proof. Thanks for pissing on my statement and point with your facts. Just F'in ignore the rest of the text and go on about your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Please NEVER let facts get in the way of your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 As I said, if women's wrestling is a boost in any way to men's wrestling, then great. There better be either greater numbers of boys joining the sport or there better be more teams being added at the collegiate level for this to make any sense. Short of that (more collegiate teams springing up or more boys joining the ranks of wrestlers) I believe it will be a waste of time and resources for a women's program to get started. Sorry, but if I were a decision maker regarding this issue I would give women's/girl's wrestling a big thumbs down as I wouldn't be willing to "give it a try for awhile to see how things work out." Having a girls program wouldn't take the bullseye off college teams. More guys wrestling will take the bullseye off wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts