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Fort Wayne Semi States Dominance


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Hate to break it to all the educators hating on Mitch Daniels but did you really think things could keep going the way they were in the IDOE without disasterous consequences?  And by  disasterous all one has to do is look to our neighbors to the west (Illinois) to see where our state could have been as far as where our educational system would have been in a few years.  My kids all go to public schools and my wife works as an educator in the public schools.  Do I enjoy writing checks for services that 10 years ago were covered?  No, but I get it.  Everyone wants change until it effects their program.  Funny how that works.  I'm betting that most of the people bellyaching the most on this thread are probably pretty conservative in most aspects of their lives but because they are teachers, they'd like the government to just keep on payin'.  States like Illinois', California's(et al) educational systems will imlode unless drastic measures are taken and then EVERYONE will suffer.  I for one appreciate the fact that the govenor had enough forsight to make some tough decisions now that will allow our educational system to continue for many years to come. 

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Isn't Indiana Extreme associated with Snider?  I thought it was, but maybe I'm mistaken.  And yes, every NHC feeder school has a wrestling team.  Some schools, like Homestead and Carroll, even have two middle school teams.

 

Extreme was at Snider High School last year, this year it's at the JAM in Garrett.  I see a lot of kids from NHC schools (East Noble, Dekalb, Carroll, Columbia City) there and some from Snider.  Several other schools represented well also.  If you want to compete at the state level you have to wrestle year round.

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I for one appreciate the fact that the govenor had enough forsight to make some tough decisions now that will allow our educational system to continue for many years to come.  

 

If the definition of forsight is looking at something and thinking WOW that is broke, lets see if I can break it even more.  Than yes "My Man" has forsight.  You are correct that I usually fall on the conservative side of things but I do not on education, environment, and some health care stuff.  I do think we need to cut out unnecessary spending.  But I guess it depends on what people feel is unnecessary.

 

1oldwrestler I usually agree with your posts so don't beat up on me to much.

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I was kind of hoping he did, would have gotten him out of our hair, plus I've heard rumblings that Bennett is in line to run for governor, would have gotten him out of hair. Then hopefully they both would have lost their elections....

 

 

Good point.

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Hate to break it to all the educators hating on Mitch Daniels but did you really think things could keep going the way they were in the IDOE without disasterous consequences?  And by  disasterous all one has to do is look to our neighbors to the west (Illinois) to see where our state could have been as far as where our educational system would have been in a few years.  My kids all go to public schools and my wife works as an educator in the public schools.  Do I enjoy writing checks for services that 10 years ago were covered?  No, but I get it.  Everyone wants change until it effects their program.  Funny how that works.  I'm betting that most of the people bellyaching the most on this thread are probably pretty conservative in most aspects of their lives but because they are teachers, they'd like the government to just keep on payin'.  States like Illinois', California's(et al) educational systems will imlode unless drastic measures are taken and then EVERYONE will suffer.  I for one appreciate the fact that the govenor had enough forsight to make some tough decisions now that will allow our educational system to continue for many years to come. 

 

This is a joke, right?  We are making changes that affect 98% of the great teachers because of the 2% of teachers who aren't doing their job.  I can guarantee that the educational system is going to get WORSE because of this.  Smart students don't want any part of being educators now.  It's not going to be worth their time.  They can make a lot more money in other areas with less restrictions.  Teaching is going to be worse because the best and brightest won't go into education. 

 

Many public schools will now be obselete in 5-10 years.  Wrestling programs will vanish also.  You think you are going to get coaches to give up every Saturday for 3 months for free?

 

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I think that teachers have been unrightfully pegged as greedy and whatnot, but the truth is the country and state need to cut funds from a ton of places.  If we sat one member from every government funded job in  a room, and told them to reach a decision on what to cut I am more then willing to bet the room would end in a stalemate.  I wish the cuts and changes were not so extreme, but the education system as well as many other government sectors have been living beyond their means for quite some time.  Its simple math they take more then we take in.  What is the state suppose to do?  Should they keep paying people more then they take in or should they try and fix the problem?  FYI I am not a huge mitch Daniels guy, but at least he has a plan to fix the problem.  Its either that or give even more money to the government so they can piss it away.  Listen to some Ron Paul sometime.  He wants to defund the whole Department of Education and let the states take it back over.  It sounds scary, but the DOE doesn't do jack but regulate something that should already be done at the state level.  Just more governement regulation that helps skyrocket the cost of education. 

Just my thoughts

 

Terry Tipton

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A little SAC review:

 

2001:

 

103 - Buffalino, Snider 5th

112 - Early, North 2nd

125 - Tun, Wayne 5th

130 - Peters, Luers 5th

135 - Reifenberg, Dwenger SQ

140- Brownlee, Snider 3rd

152 - Shephard, Northrop 8th

160 - Holman, Northrop SQ; Woodson, Snider 2nd

171 - Buuck, Dwenger 3rd

189 - Geyer, Elmhurst 2nd

HWT - Beaty, Concordia 5th; Wagner, Snider 1st

 

2002

 

112 - Hayden, Luers 7th

119 - Early, North 4th

130 - Tun, Wayne 2nd

135 - Hatch, North SQ

140 - Anderson, Concordia SQ

145 - Brownlee, Snider 3rd

160 - Bush, Snider 4th

171 - Woodson, Snider 1st

189 - Buuck, Dwenger 3rd

215 - Brown, Dwenger SQ

HWT- Wagner, Snider SQ

 

2003

 

103- Papiernik, Snider SQ

119 - Early, North 1st

125 - Lineberry, Snider SQ

130- Brueggeman, Luers SQ

171 - Waikel, Dwenger SQ

HWT- Wager, Snider SQ; Gorman, Dwenger SQ

 

2004

 

103- Andrews, Snider 4th

119- Papiernik, Snider SQ

135- Boone, Snider SQ

 

2005

 

125- Wilson, Snider SQ

130- Papiernik, Snider SQ

140- Boone, Snider 6th

145- McGee, Snider SQ

HWT - Martin, 8th

 

2006

 

135- Papiernik, Snider 4th

215- Greene, Snider SQ

 

2007

 

125- Barrett, Northrop SQ

130-Reifenberg, Dwenger 7th

135- Jordan Quinn, Snider 8th

285- Myers, Luers SQ

 

2008

 

119- Lovejoy, Luers 7th

145- Nix, Dwenger SQ

152- Monce, Concordia SQ

 

2009

 

119- Williams, Snider SQ

125- Lovejoy, Luers 5th

171- Suel, Harding SQ

215- Allen, North 5th

 

2010

 

119- Lovejoy, Luers 3rd

140- Theil, North 8th

 

2011

 

135- Nix, Dwenger SQ

152- Delaney, Dwenger SQ

HWT- Walker, North SQ

 

It is clear that the productivity of the SAC has gone done in the last 10 years as far as on the state level...however, as a current coach in the conference, I feel like there is a good young crop of individuals that are working hard to change that...not having middle school wrestling is a huge factor (we had 20 of our 31 wrestlers as 1st or 2nd year wrestlers this year)...but I do believe with persistence the SAC can play a bigger role in the near future.

 

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FWWrestler you act as though any of Fort Waynes teams are powerhouses in the area.  Get real.  Even if you take the NHC schools they have done relativly nothing for a long time.  None of the Fort Wayne schools have produced any type of great teams since at least the early 2000's.  You could argue Carrol was a great team last year, but they still didn't make it anywhere, and the area was down on a whole.  Two years ago the best team in Fort Wayne was Carrol and they didn't even win an average sectional.  To argue that Fort Wayne is even a good area for wrestling is flat out biased.  Fort Wayne's regional has the most students by a large margin and is only above the peru regional in the semi state.  (Not to mention a strong portion of the semi staters come from surronding areas in the Carrol Regional.)  So get off your high horse I am just telling it like it is.  FYI i am not trying to say that small schools carry the semi state what I am trying to say is that Fort Waynes small schools produce good talent(for their size) every year while the city of Fort Wayne  rarly ever produces what they should. 

 

Carroll was a good, not great, team last year, however, unfortunately they are in the same team regional as Bellmont and Yorktown, two perennial state powers as of late.  And two years ago there was no way Carroll was the best team in Fort Wayne, as they were beaten in their sectional by Whitko, another Fort Wayne team that was obviously better than them.  I witnessed both of those schools in action that season and Whitko was clearly the better team.  And it was only about 7 years ago that Columbia City was a state power.  Like I said before, these things go in cycles.  While the city of Fort Wayne certainly isn't producing many great teams right now, it hasn't been that long since it was, and it won't be too long until it does again.  Oh, and I can tell you that "crappy" Fort Wayne schools in the NHC like Carroll, Homestead and Dekalb pound lumps on all those "great" small school you listed off earlier.  Just because those small school teams would be able to compete in a fictional classed team state tournament doesn't mean they should get more credit than bigger schools that are consistently beating them, badly.

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Didn't Homestead get beat by South Adams this year?  Carroll is 2-2 against a Garrett team that has only finished second in their sectional once.  Dekalb has been beaten by Prairie Heights numerous times in the past few years.  These are teams competing with schools 2-3x bigger than they are, what does that say about the NHC?

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Didn't Homestead get beat by South Adams this year?  Carroll is 2-2 against a Garrett team that has only finished second in their sectional once.  Dekalb has been beaten by Prairie Heights numerous times in the past few years.  These are teams competing with schools 2-3x bigger than they are, what does that say about the NHC?

 

Homestead did get beat by South Adams last season, but that was one of SA's better teams in a while, and Homestead was considerably weaker last season than the season before, and it was a close match.  How many times has Garrett placed ahead of Carroll in their sectional over the past five or so years?  (Nice job getting a plug in for your team on this thread too, lol).  And I'll admit I was probably making a stretch by mentioning Dekalb.  I was mostly thinking of teams he mentioned like Dwenger and Fairfield, as opposed to SA and Prairie Heights.  But here's the thing: it doesn't matter that "these are teams competing with schools 2-3x bigger than they are" because THERE ARE NO CLASSES IN INDIANA WRESTLING.  It doesn't matter how big or small a school is, the team with the most points at the end of the dual wins.  So what you just said really doesn't say anything about the NHC.

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This is a joke, right?  We are making changes that affect 98% of the great teachers because of the 2% of teachers who aren't doing their job.   I can guarantee that the educational system is going to get WORSE because of this.  Smart students don't want any part of being educators now.  It's not going to be worth their time.  They can make a lot more money in other areas with less restrictions.  Teaching is going to be worse because the best and brightest won't go into education. 

 

Many public schools will now be obselete in 5-10 years.  Wrestling programs will vanish also.  You think you are going to get coaches to give up every Saturday for 3 months for free?

Smooth - No, I'm not joking.  Pretty sure you're fixating on one part of the issue and not the whole.  I don't claim to be an expert in this area at all but there is a lot more to Daniels plan than just holding teachers accountable for standards/testing results.  I guarantee if the IDOE stayed on the path it was on, we'd be in as bad a situation as the other states I've previously mentioned.

 

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The ACAC would smoke the Sac even though thier enrollment isn't even close.  The SAC has 11448 total students compared to the ACAC's 4449.    THats almost a 3 to one student ratio.  I would love to see a roster for a first, second and third team ACAC vs the SAC.  THe ACAC produces way more state level guys and is deeper then the SAC in 90 % of the weight classes.  Fort Wayne is not living up to their end of the bargin.  Its as simple as that.

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The ACAC would smoke the Sac even though thier enrollment isn't even close.  The SAC has 11448 total students compared to the ACAC's 4449.    THats almost a 3 to one student ratio.  I would love to see a roster for a first, second and third team ACAC vs the SAC.  THe ACAC produces way more state level guys and is deeper then the SAC in 90 % of the weight classes.  Fort Wayne is not living up to their end of the bargin.  Its as simple as that.

 

Not sure that anyone is really arguing with you when you compare the SAC to the ACAC.  Of course the ACAC would crush the SAC (Snider and Dwenger would put up a bit of a battle but would lose handily to the top ACAC teams .  There are, however, a couple of other Fort Wayne schools not in the SAC  that would more than compete, and more often than not, beat the best the ACAC has to offer.  So if you're only definition for Fort Wayne is the (sweaty) SAC, I have no argument.

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It doesn't matter how big or small a school is, the team with the most points at the end of the dual wins.  So what you just said really doesn't say anything about the NHC.

 

Size does matter when the point that tipton was making was that the small schools were doing fine in producing state caliber wrestlers, and the much larger schools were slacking.

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So basically all this is is a class wrestling post disguised as a discussion about wrestling in Fort Wayne... and I actually thought we could have a discussion that didn't revolve around this.  You guys are right, it is truly incredible that these schools with smaller enrollments can still produce quality wrestlers with such a severe handicap, we definitely need to class the team state tournament so they can get the recognition they so richly deserve.  Can we please stop talking about it now?  The funny thing is, I was talking to a woman at work the other day who was a big Bellmont wrestling supporter back in the 90s and early 2000s, even though none of her children were actually wrestlers.  Unprompted, she told me she was disappointed when the team state tournament went to a dual meet format, and said she was happy when she heard that it was being changed back to being decided at the individual tournament.  Interesting to hear that opinion from a casual fan.

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Karl your right on the money with that.  I should be honest though, its not just big schools in the city of Fort Wayne its big schools across all of northeast indiana.  Besides Elkhart Memorial, Huntington, Carrol, and Snider no big schools in northeast Indiana have showed up in the past 15 years.  Snider is on the rise with a tremendous turn arround last year.  Last years genius rankings show how down these schools really are.  In the AAA with 102 big schools, Fort Wayne's top teams come in at 14th, 19th, 31th, 39th,  and 41st( the whole semi state)  We only have 5 big schools in the top half of teams.  In both the smaller divisions Fort Wayne has 6 teams in the top 10.  If we were semi competitive in the top division we would be the best semi state in the state.  I want to see that happen Fort Wayne has been down to long.

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I just wish big schools could be as awesome as the little schools.  I think the awesome coaches at the little scools should get jobs at all the underperforming big schools and show them how it's done.  They'd then have all the resources and student body numbers and they would be able to march to a team title every year regardless if the team title is decided by the Coaches Trophy or dual format.  But let me guess.  You guys are too committed to the small schools and don't want to abandon them.  Leave them in the lurch, etc.  In business, when small branches are doing a great, they take the managers from those branches and move them out.  Kind of a cross pollinization effect.  I think you guys should stop hiding your light under a bushel and go out there and show everyone how it's done.  C'mon, guys.  Step up, please.  For the good of Indiana wrestling.  For the good of humanity. 

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I just wish big schools could be as awesome as the little schools.  I think the awesome coaches at the little scools should get jobs at all the underperforming big schools and show them how it's done.  They'd then have all the resources and student body numbers and they would be able to march to a team title every year regardless if the team title is decided by the Coaches Trophy or dual format.  But let me guess.  You guys are too committed to the small schools and don't want to abandon them.  Leave them in the lurch, etc.  In business, when small branches are doing a great, they take the managers from those branches and move them out.  Kind of a cross pollinization effect.  I think you guys should stop hiding your light under a bushel and go out there and show everyone how it's done.  C'mon, guys.  Step up, please.  For the good of Indiana wrestling.  For the good of humanity.   

 

LOL

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Why are you crying like a girl 1oldwrestler.  You act as though I am coming down on all big schools, when the truth is 16 or 17 of the top twenty teams are bigger schools.  I am only coming down on the Fort Wayne semi states big schools because on a whole they are horrible.  You don't hear me complaining that the regions big schools suck.  They have quite a few bad big schools, but they also have a few of the big schools that have developed a strong wrestling program.  All I am asking for is three or four big schools from fort wayne to develope a competitive wrestling program.  Maybe one of them can crack the top ten in the next 5 years.  It doesn't look like we will have one next year.  On a brighter note I think it would be awsome to see some of the smaller schools coaches take over big schools wrestling.  These small schools are good teams year in and year our because they work in the off season and have coaches and parents willing to put in the time.  FYI thats not a smart ass remark at all the big schools, I think every big school in the top 20 or 30 has put in a lot of extra time and effort to get their team to where they need to be.  Hardwork and dedication are what make teams great for generations.  Belmont wrestlers are not better because they are born in Decatur they are better because they put in the time and effort just like all the good teams.  Only example that doesn't totally fit that is Yorktown.  Im sure Yorktown works really hard, but they will take any goodwrestler in a 100 mile radius to lie cheat or steal a regional title from Belmont.  Thought I would throw that in there for fun.

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