New weights are in.

[AJ]

Last 6 years:

2011 ? Boston (Freshman)

2010 ? Phillips (Sophomore)

2009 ? Phillips (Freshman)

2008 ? Raley (Freshman)

2007 ? Eppert (Sophomore)

2006 ? Harper (Freshman)

 

Not saying those guys wouldn't win at another weight class, because they are all studs.  But show me another weight class that has 4 of the last 6 champs as a freshman?

 

 

Whats your point?  Are you saying unless a Senior wins the weight class then the weight class in weak?  And there were seniors in the weight class, the freshmen were just better.

 

And look at the wrestlers on that list. Its not like any of them were one hit wonders and then disappeared.

[RW177]

An interesting study would be to find out years of experience wrestling at the state tournament. I could be wrong but I'm guessing there are far more upper weight kids who started late. At the lower weights you have to have a ton of experience. If you are a super athlete and big you can pick your sport but if you're small wrestling is the best option.

[swain358]

and sorry, but that sarcasm about football stud quitting sounds like a coaching issue....

 

We had that situation happen this year and I have seen it happen many times in the past.. The stud football player comes out for the team and during the first week of practice he gets beat on by the kids who he would pound on during the football season.. So eventually he quits from embarrassment/ finally being the kid who is not one of the elite in the sport he is participating in. Its unfortunate but it happens all the time..

[randalllynch]

Last 6 years:

2011 ? Boston (Freshman)

2010 ? Phillips (Sophomore)

2009 ? Phillips (Freshman)

2008 ? Raley (Freshman) - Senior Won 135

2007 ? Eppert (Sophomore) - Senior Won 119

2006 ? Harper (Freshman) - Senior Won125

 

Not sure the concern over Freshman doing so well is a valid concern as it appears that when they become seniors they performed equally well at a higher weight.

[jchs1989]

i can see both sides!!!we have several great wrestlers from 6th-8th grade who are 70lbs and under,who may be screwed because of the changes...i liked the 98lb class we had back in the day!!!but,in my opinion,the 215lb class,or whatever it is now,was a great addition!!!!now you have some finely tuned athletes,and great wrestling..i see very little"ball-room" dancing going on in this weight class!!!!!

[NLCards]

Not sure how this became a discussion on 103 --- I see the change from 103 - 106 as a very minor issue. I think the main issue is combining 135 and 140 into one weight class. Taking two of the most competitive weight classes with many high level athletes and combining them into one class seems like a very bad idea to me. And that is essentially what will happen with this new change.

[Y2CJ41]

Here is some data to chew on in regards to the past state champions.  Over the past 10(11) years there have been 49 underclassmen win state championships.  Of those 50, 31 of them have repeated the next year as state champion.  At 103lbs in particular there has only been one champion that has repeated his title at a higher weight class the next year, that being Josh Harper.  Cody Phillips has repeated as a state champion, but at 103lbs.

 

This data may show that there is a huge disparity between 103lbs and the rest of the weight classes and/or that there is immense competition at the lower weights in Indiana.  

 

Here is the information

2001

Craig Weinzapfel- 112&%

 

2003

Fernando Martinez- 103%

 

2004

Jon Lloyd- 103^

 

2005

Eric Galka- 103&^

Ethan Harris- 112

Anthony Williams- 119%

Nick Walpole- 140%

Wesley English- 145^

 

2007

Camden Eppert- 103&%

Eric Galka- 130%

George Malone- 215%

 

2008

Ethan Raley- 103&^

Brandon Wright- 112&%

Cashe Quiroga- 119%

Josh Harper- 125

 

2009

Anthony Hawkins- 112

Michael Duckworth- 171%

 

2010

Cody Phillips- 103

 

 

&- Won another title later(5 individuals)

^- Did not place the year after they won state(4 individuals)

%- Lost in finals or to eventual champ and got 3rd(10 individuals)

 

Special Notes:

Wesley English did not wrestle his senior year due to transfering

 

Weight Champs not repeating Returning Champs

103 6 8

112 4 7

119 2 2

125 1 5

130 1 6

135 0 2

140 1 3

145 1 3

152 0 3

160 0 2

171 1 4

189 0 0

215 1 3

285 0 1

18 49

 

[Cale Hoover]

Jeremy VanAlstyne won his state championship as a senior in 2002.  He qualified for state as a junior in 2001.

[Y2CJ41]

Jeremy VanAlstyne won his state championship as a senior in 2002.  He qualified for state as a junior in 2001.

Thanks the IHSAA lists him as a junior on their website.

[indyfire]

in 2009 the 103 pound class was probable the most talented of all the classes.  The state placers have moved up weights and classes and  placed and won.  Go to an ISWA state tournament and look at how many kids are at novice 70 thru 85 compared to the biggest weights.  The talent level is much better because the competition  is better.  At the IHSAA a fewyears ago,  one of the Stahl brothers move up from 145 to 189 to when a state title because the competion was easier. We didn't need a big weight class in Indiana or probably in the United States. I think 112 was as good as 135 with the state tournament missing Cody Lecount at 112  becauses of the level of talent at New Castle.

[fearless fly]

all i hear on the news is how obese this nation is yet these weight classes promote it

 

 

ff

[SpiderMonkey]

Just a side note, but I believe in your signature quote Y2 the proper usage of the word "there" should be they're. I'm not as smart as RG so maybe he can clarify that for us. It must be that you attended a small school and they don't have the same educational opportunities that the big schools have.

[Ice135]

The other rule changes are interesting too.

 

The boundary line is no inbounds and all figure fours around the head are illegal now.

NO MORE TRAPJAW!!! Sad day...sad day.   

[Y2CJ41]

Just a side note, but I believe in your signature quote Y2 the proper usage of the word "there" should be they're. I'm not as smart as RG so maybe he can clarify that for us. It must be that you attended a small school and they don't have the same educational opportunities that the big schools have.

That is a quote for a former "fan favorite" on here.  I left it as it was typed originally to not take away from how great of a statement it was/is.

[aoberlin]

Why take away chances for smaller athletes? What other sport can small athletes be considered the best in the state? Sorry for not sympathizing for  a 215 pound athlete that is being left out. Show me a legit 6% body fat 215 pounder who isn't good at practically every sport he does. There are dozens of 6% body fat 135 pounders who because of size aren't going to have opportunities at any other sport.  Everyone will have some story about a small guy who is a stud but at the upper levels of sport size matters. Why as wrestlers where size doesn't matter should we cater to larger athletes that have dozens of opportunities in other sports to be the best?

I agree with this post %100. 

 

The statement of 106 is still small I do not.  Yes 106 is still small, but not if you weigh 98lbs.  8lb difference is huge for a little guy and by the end of the season it will be 11.  Let's do some math.  If someone weighs 98 pounds and wrestles someone weighing 109 then the percentage to body weight is 11%.  That is absolutely impossible for a kid that size to overcome trust me it used to be me.  Why don't you ask little Brooks about his freshman year.  If that kid would have weighed as much as his competition he would have walked to state that year also like he deserved to.

 

Yeah there is allot of times that 103 is dominated by Freshmen but it is not only because Freshman are smaller.  Allot of kids growing up try different sports but some of the smaller more athletic and competitive ones find it is hard for them to succeed at other sports because they are smaller than their peers.  But that is not the case in wrestling, (or wasn't) they then go out for wrestling and have success and focus on that sport and turn into a stud Freshmen.

 

 

Y2 I like you but we definetly do not agree on this one.  But maybe you never had to battle with Napolean syndrome like me.  (Which I don't have because of wrestling.)

 

 

 

[Stripes]

I agree with you aoberlin.

 

I'm also of the opinion that if they weren't using flawed statistical methods, they might have come to a different conclusion.  When they use just wrestler data, they are introducing a bias, which I suspect was not properly accounted for.  In particular, it ignores all those who aren't wrestling because they weigh 90 lbs.

 

Yes, there are more forfeits at 103 than 285, but how many of those 285 pounders are 215 pounders  (or even real 189 pounders) wrestling up to fill the spot?  See that all the time.  Shifting guys up is standard procedure, which is another bias which may not have been adjusted for in the data.

 

 

[1oldwrestler]

I agree with this post %100. 

 

The statement of 106 is still small I do not.  Yes 106 is still small, but not if you weigh 98lbs.  8lb difference is huge for a little guy and by the end of the season it will be 11.  Let's do some math.  If someone weighs 98 pounds and wrestles someone weighing 109 then the percentage to body weight is 11%.  That is absolutely impossible for a kid that size to overcome trust me it used to be me.  Why don't you ask little Brooks about his freshman year.  If that kid would have weighed as much as his competition he would have walked to state that year also like he deserved to.

 

Yeah there is allot of times that 103 is dominated by Freshmen but it is not only because Freshman are smaller.  Allot of kids growing up try different sports but some of the smaller more athletic and competitive ones find it is hard for them to succeed at other sports because they are smaller than their peers.  But that is not the case in wrestling, (or wasn't) they then go out for wrestling and have success and focus on that sport and turn into a stud Freshmen.

 

Y2 I like you but we definetly do not agree on this one.  But maybe you never had to battle with Napolean syndrome like me.  (Which I don't have because of wrestling.)

aoberlin - tho I agree with you there's no use crying over spilt mik.  The decision to increase 103 and do away with 135 so a higher weight class can be added, tho, IMO, an atrocity(melodrama added for effect), is a done deal.  Remember, no room for emotion or personal experience here.  Even tho Stripes brings a phenomonal point (the NFHS should have looked at the entire population of students in h.s.'s across the country as opposed to just the the 200,000 wrestlers they did look at) the NFHS carries a lot of weight and what they say goes.  Wrestling will easily survive this and if it improves all the supprters of the weight class changes will point to that as a facor.  My feeling is nothing is really going to change, 106 will still have the most ffts (and some of the best wrestling, I might add) and small schools will find it tough to field all the upper weights and 106 will still be an issue for small schools.  So really, IMO, the problems for small schools fielding a team will only be compounded by these new weights.  Careful what you wish for, you might get it!

[KarlHungus]

I agree with this post %100. 

 

The statement of 106 is still small I do not.  Yes 106 is still small, but not if you weigh 98lbs.  8lb difference is huge for a little guy and by the end of the season it will be 11.  Let's do some math.  If someone weighs 98 pounds and wrestles someone weighing 109 then the percentage to body weight is 11%.  That is absolutely impossible for a kid that size to overcome trust me it used to be me.  Why don't you ask little Brooks about his freshman year.  If that kid would have weighed as much as his competition he would have walked to state that year also like he deserved to.

 

Yeah there is allot of times that 103 is dominated by Freshmen but it is not only because Freshman are smaller.  Allot of kids growing up try different sports but some of the smaller more athletic and competitive ones find it is hard for them to succeed at other sports because they are smaller than their peers.  But that is not the case in wrestling, (or wasn't) they then go out for wrestling and have success and focus on that sport and turn into a stud Freshmen.

 

 

Y2 I like you but we definetly do not agree on this one.  But maybe you never had to battle with Napolean syndrome like me.  (Which I don't have because of wrestling.)

 

 

If I were an undersized 106 pounder I would do what other undersized athletes usually do, eat and lift to put on mass.  As a sophmore in 1986, I started two games at inside linebacker against DeKalb at 140 lbs.  That team, I'm sure you remember, had an Offensive Line that averaged about 250 lbs and 2 stud running backs that were both well over 200lbs and absolute studs.  I quickly realized I had two options:  1) Continue to get trucked by athletes that were bigger, faster and stronger or 2) Make it a priority to put on muscle mass and increase my chances at competing.

[kfcfanatic]

A smart person once told me that the world wasn't fair, and the sooner that I accepted that, the better my life would be.

 

We are talking about a small percentage of kids who are effected by the bump to 106.  We truthfully can't make our rules for the minority.  103 is the most forfeited weight class.  83 teams showed up to sectionals this year without a 103.  We shouldn't be worrying about a bump up to 106.  It's not the end of the world.  Kids deal with adversity all the time.  Do you feel it's unfair for the kid who weighs 235 that has to wrestle heavyweight and may wrestle someone who weighs 285?  

 

How many kids can we go out there and say their weight hindered them at 103?  Brooks?  Ok, so it kept him from the state tournament 1 year!  He had a tough draw at Semi-State and lost to an upper classman.  That happens a lot to great freshman (I.E. Cody LeCount this year, just a tough weight at that semi-state and a rough draw).

 

If we are going to focus on the "minority" of 98 pound kids out there, I can focus on the "minority" of kids who have excelled in that situation.  Stevan Micic this year took 3rd at 103.  He just started weighing over 100 lbs. around semi-state.  He didn't cut any weight this year and ended up beating a senior who wrestled 112 the year before and gave Boston all he wanted!

 

How about Daniel Meyers of Bellmont?  He wrestles heavyweight and in all reality could be a 189 lbs. wrestler.  He was giving up a little more than the 11% of weight you are saying is impossible to overcome.  

 

It's hard for me to only focus on the minority.  Moving the weight up to 106 will positively effect more kids than it hinders.  Thus it needed to happen.

[bharmon01]

This is just like the 1995 weight class changes. Those changes didn't make any sense and cut 2 weight classes out of the middle making a 100lb and 215 weight class. We will have to deal with it and hopefully like 1995 everyone will come to their sense and correct it. I liked the weight classes the way they were. We fight to fill the top classes every year and have kids wrestle up to try and fill them.

I need to get some of what you guys are going to use to put on all this mass by next year. Let me know so we can put on 25-30 pounds (of lean muscle mass) in the next 6 months. We have some weight classes to fill.

[KarlHungus]

This is just like the 1995 weight class changes. Those changes didn't make any sense and cut 2 weight classes out of the middle making a 100lb and 215 weight class. We will have to deal with it and hopefully like 1995 everyone will come to their sense and correct it. I liked the weight classes the way they were. We fight to fill the top classes every year and have kids wrestle up to try and fill them.

I need to get some of what you guys are going to use to put on all this mass by next year. Let me know so we can put on 25-30 pounds (of lean muscle mass) in the next 6 months. We have some weight classes to fill.

 

25-30 pounds in a year would be tough.  5-15 should be par for the course for kids that are lifting year round and eating the right way.

[maligned]

Even in Indiana, the data supports the changes.  Our stretch of least-forfeited weight classes centers around 160 and 171 as the least of all.  Accompanying them, 152 and 189 were firmly in the next group of least-forfeited.  Now, instead of 4 classes in this popular 152-189 stretch, we have 5 classes from 152-195.  People keep saying we've added another 'fatty' weight class.  We haven't.  We just renamed 189 and 215 as 195 and 220.  Meanwhile, we added a weight in that crucial 152-182 range.  

Go back and read Y2's sectional forfeit data.  It supports the national data.  This isn't a 189/215 issue.  It's a 152-182 issue.

Also, people are looking at the names of weight classes prior to 145 too literally in comparison with the previous system.  The 103-145 range is all affected slightly so that there are now 8 classes instead of 9.  No one class was taken away...they all expand in range to allow more participants in each.

[charger.dad]

combining 135 and 140 is a mistake......all that does is take a kid out of the mix now in two very competitive weight classes......imo 130-160 is the hot bed of wrestlers for most schools....why get rid of one of those weight classes?.....i do however agree with adding the weight class up near the top......there has always been to big of  gap between 171, 189 and 215....i feel they just should have added one more weight class instead of trying to keep the same number as what we had and taking away 135 - 140 and making it 138.....

 

and as for the comment about steve stahl going up in weight because it was easier.....not true....he went there because he was burnt out on dieting  and just wanted to wrestle his natural weight and actually enjoy the season without starving himself.....maybe more kids should consider that.....losing all that weight sometimes hinders you as much as you think it might help....

 

none the less, the weights have changed!.....they are what they are and in the end all will be great.....the best kids will still be the ones one the podium at conseco.....

[charger.dad]

Even in Indiana, the data supports the changes.  Our stretch of least-forfeited weight classes centers around 160 and 171 as the least of all.  Accompanying them, 152 and 189 were firmly in the next group of least-forfeited.  Now, instead of 4 classes in this popular 152-189 stretch, we have 5 classes from 152-195.  People keep saying we've added another 'fatty' weight class.  We haven't.  We just renamed 189 and 215 as 195 and 220.  Meanwhile, we added a weight in that crucial 152-182 range.  

Go back and read Y2's sectional forfeit data.  It supports the national data.  This isn't a 189/215 issue.  It's a 152-182 issue.

Also, people are looking at the names of weight classes prior to 145 too literally in comparison with the previous system.  The 103-145 range is all affected slightly so that there are now 8 classes instead of 9.  No one class was taken away...they all expand in range to allow more participants in each.

 

 

maligned, can you explain to me how going from 9 weight classes (103 to 145) to what is now 8 weight classes (106 to 145) is not taking a weight class away?.....there is now one less weight class in that range....in my opinion, something got taken away.....????...either 135 or 140......

[RW177]

We are getting bigger as a society because we are getting fatter. Why support this in wrestling? I know from walking the halls that there are more big kids than ever before. I don't agree with encouraging more overweight kids. Obesity is a national epidemic why cave into this in wrestling?

I also realize that there aren't many kids in 103. I say, so what!  It has always been the most forfeited weight and always will be. I look at it from the standpoint if not for wrestling these kids wouldn't even be able to compete in athletics at all.  Wrestling is the only place for them to excel in athletics. Why take that away?