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Ideas for team state


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You could do it with 4 classes also

 

4 classes with A- 78 teams AA-78 teamd AAA- 77 teams AAAA 77 teams

 

16 sectionals(each class) with 4-6 teams in each

Three rounds to determine each sectional champion

 

4 regionals(each class) with four sectional champions at each

Two rounds to determine regional champions

*Travel would be one of the biggest issues with the regionals in some areas, especially down south.

 

4 in each class advance to state on a Saturday.

 

So teams are going to be wrestling 4 or 5 matches total on Tuesday and Thursday nights, including possibly 3 on a Tuesday night?  I guess those kids don't need to go to school on Wednesday because, even if it's close, won't get home until about midnight.  If it's not close, then they might not get home until 1 am.

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It may be just me, but doesn't inviting teams, based on the previous year's qualifiers, seem to penalize a school for having a senior laden team? 

 

I said it wasn't perfect, but at least everyone will know if they're invited a year in advance.  That leaves plenty of time for schools to make arrangements - teams invited and other teams that it might affect.

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And joining the IHSWCA presumably.  I dont think I've seen an answer to the quesiton if non IHSWCA affiliated schools would be allowed to participate.

 

I could see this being an issue if a coach or school doesnt agree with or have same views as IHSWCA.  To force a school to join an organization that they do not feel properly represents them, in order to compete in a "state tournament" could turn into a political disaster.  

 

The committee that is being, or will be formed, will have a lot of work to do.  And I hope they are able to achieve a unified coaching association and a good state tournament.  

 

Its a good thing we have over a year to work on this and think things out.  I think this is a great idea and I hope it succeeds.  And yes, I would be willing to help in anyway possible to make this a reality.

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As the former President I think it is very reasonable to require coaches to be IHSWCA members in order to be a part of the proposed tournament.  If you do not want to join you do not have to participate. 

 

Each coach has the freedom to do what they feel is in the best interest of their program

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So teams are going to be wrestling 4 or 5 matches total on Tuesday and Thursday nights, including possibly 3 on a Tuesday night?  I guess those kids don't need to go to school on Wednesday because, even if it's close, won't get home until about midnight.  If it's not close, then they might not get home until 1 am.

No, it would be a one and done tournament like all the other IHSAA tournaments.  Sectionals would have 2-3 matches for the championship teams and regionals would have two matches for the championship teams.

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As the former President I think it is very reasonable to require coaches to be IHSWCA members in order to be a part of the proposed tournament.  If you do not want to join you do not have to participate. 

 

Each coach has the freedom to do what they feel is in the best interest of their program

That should be in effect for the NWCA Scholastic Duals and the Indiana vs. Illinois meet too.

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I would be in favor of four (4) classes of around 64 teams.  You could go with five as well.  I would set some standards to be in the tournament such as you must fill at least nine (9) weight classes in a majority of your matches prior to a certain date to be included in the tournament.

 

Rationale:

 

- 64 teams brackets could be wrestled in a week long event without alot of problems

 

- by requiring "fuller" teams you lessen the humiliation factor and you might even stimulate teams to work harder at getting their weight classes filled.

 

Problems:

 

- We have a hard time communicating well enough to get every Head Coach to join the IHSWCA let alone communicating well enough to get everyone involved in a tournament.

 

- The current tournament is required and we have a hard time getting all of the 32 teams that qualify for the Regional/Semi-State round to come ready to compete with their best team.  Can we do better when there is no threat from the IHSAA?

 

- Facilities and scheduling are huge issues that will have to be dealt with and it is a big difference when Bobby Cox calls wanting to use the gym for an IHSAA sanctioned event versus when someone from the IHSWCA calls.

 

 

I hope that something can be done to make this work, but I am not sure who has the time to be the driving force behind it.  One reason I would like to see it work is because I do not think the IHSAA thinks it can work.  I think that the IHSAA basically gave us something to distract us, from fighting for the Dual Tournament, that they knew would never affect them in any way.  It is kind of like the two Raccoons we had when I was a kid.  You could give the Raccoons a sugar cube which they got really excited over and then watch them start to wash it, like raccoons do, and see it disappear in their little hands.

 

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No, it would be a one and done tournament like all the other IHSAA tournaments.  Sectionals would have 2-3 matches for the championship teams and regionals would have two matches for the championship teams.

 

 

If your travel time is kept in the 1 1/2 hour to 2 hour range, wrestling 2-3 matches isn't that bad.  Teams wrestle quads throughout the week, all year.

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I hope that something can be done to make this work, but I am not sure who has the time to be the driving force behind it.  One reason I would like to see it work is because I do not think the IHSAA thinks it can work.  I think that the IHSAA basically gave us something to distract us, from fighting for the Dual Tournament, that they knew would never affect them in any way.  It is kind of like the two Raccoons we had when I was a kid.  You could give the Raccoons a sugar cube which they got really excited over and then watch them start to wash it, like raccoons do, and see it disappear in their little hands.

 

 

Unfortunately I agree with coach Peck.  I fear the leadership infrastructure might no be place to make it happen.  Also agree that if it were done with an all in format with 95-100% school participation it could be a huge moneymaker for schools and the IHSWCA. 

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If we agree to class it (which I don't have a problem with) - how about the smallest several classes only have say 10 weight classes to fill.  These would have to be a compromise - taken from the 14 that exist - and passed by the coaches association. 

 

That would make it more competitive - even at the lowest levels of the tournament for the small schools.

 

Kind of like 8 or 6 man football teams.

 

It has to be an all in tournament - or let anyone in who petitions to get in.  Say by a certain date.  Whether it has classes or not.

 

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Also agree that if it were done with an all in format with 95-100% school participation it could be a huge moneymaker for schools and the IHSWCA. 

 

It could a huge money maker, and I never figured out why the IHSAA did not see the potential for financial gain if they would have classed it and done it right. 

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It could a huge money maker, and I never figured out why the IHSAA did not see the potential for financial gain if they would have classed it and done it right. 

 

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that the coaches association never proposed and outlined how it should be done.  I recently got a copy of a proposal that the football coaches association might be making to the IHSAA regarding a 6th class, seeding of sectional and addressing the public/private debate.  The amount of detail in that proposal is impressive.  If you would like to see the proposal, I can email it to you.

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If we agree to class it (which I don't have a problem with) - how about the smallest several classes only have say 10 weight classes to fill.  These would have to be a compromise - taken from the 14 that exist - and passed by the coaches association. 

 

That would make it more competitive - even at the lowest levels of the tournament for the small schools.

 

Kind of like 8 or 6 man football teams.

 

It has to be an all in tournament - or let anyone in who petitions to get in.  Say by a certain date.  Whether it has classes or not.

 

 

This idea has some merit for the smaller schools, but may present a few problems.

 

Not sure modifying the current weight classes for this type of event would be allowed under the current wrestling rules.

 

The other issue would be the fact that each of the small school would be different in terms of where there kids are weight wise.  So, their may not be a perfect set of 10 weight classes all small school would agree upon.

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It could a huge money maker, and I never figured out why the IHSAA did not see the potential for financial gain if they would have classed it and done it right. 

 

Coach Peck,

The problem is they thought they were doing it right.  We all have a perception of how it should be.  Their perception just wasnt really that good.

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My guess (and it's only a guess) is that the coaches association never proposed and outlined how it should be done.  I recently got a copy of a proposal that the football coaches association might be making to the IHSAA regarding a 6th class, seeding of sectional and addressing the public/private debate.  The amount of detail in that proposal is impressive.  If you would like to see the proposal, I can email it to you.

 

I know of at least two times when we did make detailed proposals of how a class dual tournament would have worked and fit into the time frame available (I still have them somewhere).  They are just dead set against "class" in any individual sport.  I guess I can understand why if we work from the idea that if one is allowed to go "class" then they all will want to go "class".  The financial drain could be astronomical in sports like golf, track, cross country and a few others.

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Coach Peck,

The problem is they thought they were doing it right.  We all have a perception of how it should be.  Their perception just wasnt really that good.

 

I agree with this, but whose perception is right.  I'm sure we'll have member's of the IHSWCA disagreeing about the way this should be done.  For this to be successful there has to be an committee with the authorization to set up the tournament, and an agreement by coaches to follow that set up.  I think running our own tournament is an awesome idea, but a logistical nightmare.  For this to work someone has to have the authority to make it work, and the initiative to see it through.  Who is that going to be, and can that discussion really afford to wait until the fall meeting?  

 

"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."

 

   Bruce Leverett - "Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers"

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I know of at least two times when we did make detailed proposals of how a class dual tournament would have worked and fit into the time frame available (I still have them somewhere).  They are just dead set against "class" in any individual sport.  I guess I can understand why if we work from the idea that if one is allowed to go "class" then they all will want to go "class".  The financial drain could be astronomical in sports like golf, track, cross country and a few others.

 

If they are giving the blessing to a classed tournament, I don't see how they can be philosophically dead set against it.  I am dead set against murdering someone and I am equally dead set against you murdering someone.  If it is money related as some have suggested, then the coaches association should use this as an opportunity grow the association and make money.  An invite only state tournament will not, IMO, accomplish this goal.  By the way Rex, I would love to see one of the proposals if you have it on the computer to email. Hollenbaugh@culver.k12.in.us

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If they are giving the blessing to a classed tournament, I don't see how they can be philosophically dead set against it.  I am dead set against murdering someone and I am equally dead set against you murdering someone. 

 

I am dead set against murdering someone, however I do believe that a person has the means to protect self/family at whatever length is needed, including killing someone bvefore they kill you or your family. 

 

The IHSAA just doesnt want to deal with it.  Plain and simple.  If we want to do it, they dont care because it doesnt involve them.

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I am dead set against murdering someone, however I do believe that a person has the means to protect self/family at whatever length is needed, including killing someone bvefore they kill you or your family. 

 

The IHSAA just doesnt want to deal with it.  Plain and simple.  If we want to do it, they dont care because it doesnt involve them.

 

Thats not murder.  The point is that being dead set against something and then giving your blessing to something is logically inconsistant

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but it was an "informal" blessing from my understanding.....  either way, they just dont want any part...

 

there have been some very interesting ideas and formats brought up... this has atleast sparked a good debate and good ideas..

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Coach Peck,

 

I don't think facilities would be too hard to come by.  Some AD's out there would be smart enough to realize that hosting a "State" Tournament without having to turn in ALL their ticket money to the IHSAA is a GREAT idea.  But this brings us to another point......would the host site(s) have to turn in money to the IHSWCA or just keep the profits?  Things to think about.

 

 

-Pat Wilkins

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Thats not murder.  The point is that being dead set against something and then giving your blessing to something is logically inconsistant

 

Those tricky people at the IHSAA setting up a back story to plead legally insane to avoid the criminal charge.   ;D

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