digninrk Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 That is all everyone has on this thread, "apparently" that's what the rules say. I would like to see some actual proof that the rule exists. I think this is what all the contraversey during the match was about, CP coaches wanted proof the rule existed. The rule book says nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 That is all everyone has on this thread, "apparently" that's what the rules say. I would like to see some actual proof that the rule exists. I think this is what all the contraversey during the match was about, CP coaches wanted proof the rule existed. The rule book says nothing about it. These rules can be found in the IHSAA Winter Bulletin under wrestling B. To be eligible for the heavyweight class, a wrestler must weigh over 189 lbs. A contestant may wrestle at the weight class they qualify for by virtue of their weigh-in for that event or one weight class higher only. B. The IHSAA copy of the sectional entry list is the official copy. 1. A wrestler entered on the official entry list may be entered in his/her listed weight class or in the class immediately above his/her listed weight class at the seeding meeting. That is all I have found so far regarding this issue, thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 That is all everyone has on this thread, "apparently" that's what the rules say. I would like to see some actual proof that the rule exists. I think this is what all the contraversey during the match was about, CP coaches wanted proof the rule existed. The rule book says nothing about it. http://www.ihsaa.org/dnn/portals/0/Flip%20Book/2010/2010-11_Winter_Bulletin/fscommand/Winter.pdf p.51 - Under Section III - TOURNAMENT RULES B.1. Weighing-In ? A contestant may NOT wrestle in a class lower than the class entered on the sectional entry list. He/she may NOT wrestle in a class higher than the class immediately above his/her entered weight class. It's on the the 51st page of this pdf - but it's 135 if you are looking at the page numbers at the bottom of each page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I have only been following wrestling for 5 years now since my son decided to start wrestling in 8th grade. If I could sit in the stands and discuss with people as to "why is CP's 145 not wrestling at 145" and say that "maybe he's bumping up a weight" and then when he doesn't come out for 152 "well, I guess he didn't make weight for 145 and weighed in at 152 and is gona bump to 160" and then realize that he did weigh in at 145 and is trying to bump two weight classes? I would think that if I know the rules, a high school coach would. I reminds me of when Donovan McNabb didn't know a football game could end in a tie if no one scores after OT. Really coach? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior140 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 As Im sure from the point of of view from a wrestler and a parent it has to be disheartening, that you expect your coach to protect you and have the best interest of the wrestler and team at heart, to only see a debacle of this magnitude at this level is mind boggling. Feel bad for Roach, a very good kid, who deserved to finish his last match on the mat and not on the side lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 B.1. Weighing-In ? A contestant may NOT wrestle in a class lower than the class entered on the sectional entry list. He/she may NOT wrestle in a class higher than the class immediately above his/her entered weight class. It's on the the 51st page of this pdf - but it's 135 if you are looking at the page numbers at the bottom of each page. That part is interesting too. Matt Rattay wrestled 140 last week in Indy, he wrestled Jake Lannert in the match for 3rd/4th...but I'm pretty sure he wrestled 135 today when MD wrestled LN...does that mean he was officially on the roster at 135 or else he wouldn't have been able to move from 140 last week to 135 today? Does anyone know if the weight classes listed in the State Program handed out today are the official weights (as listed on the Sectional entry list)? Does it also have to do with a certain # of certified weigh-ins? Because if it's strictly based on this rule, then how would Flamme be able to go down to wrestle 145 either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 And as many have already said, although I wanted MD to get the win, my heart broke for Roach, a senior who didn't get to compete in his last high school match. What a tremendous talent he is, and it has been fun watching him over the last 4 years...I'm sure he's going to make the Hoosiers proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 That part is interesting too. Matt Rattay wrestled 140 last week in Indy, he wrestled Jake Lannert in the match for 3rd/4th...but I'm pretty sure he wrestled 135 today when MD wrestled LN...does that mean he was officially on the roster at 135 or else he wouldn't have been able to move from 140 last week to 135 today? Does anyone know if the weight classes listed in the State Program handed out today are the official weights (as listed on the Sectional entry list)? Does it also have to do with a certain # of certified weigh-ins? Because if it's strictly based on this rule, then how would Flamme be able to go down to wrestle 145 either? Yes Rattay weighed in for sectionals at 135 for just that reason so he would be eligble for 135 or 140 for team state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Yes Rattay weighed in for sectionals at 135 for just that reason so he would be eligble for 135 or 140 for team state. Yeah, LN coaches know the rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Yeah, LN coaches know the rules! LMAO!! Of course the LN coach knows the rules...he's from Evansville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Umm, i gotta disagree about the biggest blunder.... there was this one time, that a first year coach made it to team state.... he thought his team got an extra pound or so, they entire team weighed in over weight. That would be the biggest blunder although that is a big blunder, i still think it is under what happened today... considering CP was the #1 ranked team in the state, it involved a nationally ranked 2x state champion, and just last week a coach was punished for his sectional lineup being wrong, and it just may be the last team state championship that Indiana has puts it at #1 in my opinion..... it was a crazy story that added to the storylines and the craziness of the day..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyh Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 As I remember the match, Blake Mauer won state at 171, weighed in at 189 then came out for the 215 match against Portage, in which he wrestled the Portage HWT, who cut from 275 over the previous year to make the line up. That was a collision of styles in which the Portage kid "Steve Jones" walked off the mat with a "what happened" look on his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pm1981 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I was just wondering about the weight loss rule for wrestlers dropping down. How can a kid weigh in at individual state and a week later make the lower weight without breaking the 1.5% rule? How can a wreslter be punished if he is a senior? Does the opposing coach have to question the rule or are the punishments not imposed at team state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Bumping up two classes is a wrestler safety issue. Not that it seems to matter much at Heavyweight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pm1981 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 No, I was refering to Flame 152 at state and Rattay 140 at state then a week later they drop 5-7 jlbs, which is hard to do with the weight loss rule? Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 No, I was refering to Flame 152 at state and Rattay 140 at state then a week later they drop 5-7 jlbs, which is hard to do with the weight loss rule? Sorry for the confusion. all depends on what they weighed in at state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbarnett Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I was just wondering about the weight loss rule for wrestlers dropping down. How can a kid weigh in at individual state and a week later make the lower weight without breaking the 1.5% rule? How can a wreslter be punished if he is a senior? Does the opposing coach have to question the rule or are the punishments not imposed at team state? I believe that alpha weight and 1.5% stuff only comes in to play during the regular season... it does not matter during the tournament series, as all weight requirements to wrestle a particular weight class have been met by the sectional. Wrestling 152 at Conseco would not prohibit you from dropping to 145 at Team State, etc. if you had certified at 145. If, however, you had certified at 152 you could not drop to 145. All wrestlers had two options to wrestle at Team State... the weight at which they certified, and one weight class above that. Flamme certified at 145. Tsirtsis and Rattay both certified at 135, although they chose to wrestle at 140 in the individual series. Specifically, Flamme weighed in at less than 151 at Conseco, so making the 148 required to wrestle 145 at Team State was not much of a weight loss to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-train Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Flamme could have weighed in at 145 all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Could Roach have won 152 is the question. If so, why not go 152 for the individual so could have had more flexibility for the team state series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Roach probably could have won but I wouldn't have bet against welch. it was obviously a better choice for him to go 145. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb25 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I believe that alpha weight and 1.5% stuff only comes in to play during the regular season... it does not matter during the tournament series, as all weight requirements to wrestle a particular weight class have been met by the sectional. Wrestling 152 at Conseco would not prohibit you from dropping to 145 at Team State, etc. if you had certified at 145. If, however, you had certified at 152 you could not drop to 145. All wrestlers had two options to wrestle at Team State... the weight at which they certified, and one weight class above that. Flamme certified at 145. Tsirtsis and Rattay both certified at 135, although they chose to wrestle at 140 in the individual series. Specifically, Flamme weighed in at less than 151 at Conseco, so making the 148 required to wrestle 145 at Team State was not much of a weight loss to begin with. So it's OK to cut weight during the tournament, just don't do it during the regular season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleace Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Crown Point did not lose this match on the Roach decision , it was lost on the victory of Schroeder over Fuqua at 135 , in other words they did not move on because of a stalling call . Roach would of had to pin Weizapfel at 152 and Schurg would of had to lose by know more than a decision , which both together would have been very unlikely . When Saroff upset Goebel and Harvey upset Henderson I thought we lost this match , if Fuqua defeats Schroeder thats a 6 point swing we lose and CP moves on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Crown Point did not lose this match on the Roach decision , it was lost on the victory of Schroeder over Fuqua at 135 , in other words they did not move on because of a stalling call . Roach would of had to pin Weizapfel at 152 and Schurg would of had to lose by know more than a decision , which both together would have been very unlikely . When Saroff upset Goebel and Harvey upset Henderson I thought we lost this match , if Fuqua defeats Schroeder thats a 6 point swing we lose and CP moves on . It would have been nice to be able to watch these matches online. How did the match at 135 go. I'm guessing he was stalling pretty bad for the ref to call it in ot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchador Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Crown Point did not lose this match on the Roach decision , it was lost on the victory of Schroeder over Fuqua at 135 , in other words they did not move on because of a stalling call . Roach would of had to pin Weizapfel at 152 and Schurg would of had to lose by know more than a decision , which both together would have been very unlikely . When Saroff upset Goebel and Harvey upset Henderson I thought we lost this match , if Fuqua defeats Schroeder thats a 6 point swing we lose and CP moves on . I wouldn't say that Saroff beating Goebel was an upset 3 or 4 of his losses came to Petrov , and 1 of them to Medina, he's had a pretty tough schedule this year . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I believe that alpha weight and 1.5% stuff only comes in to play during the regular season... it does not matter during the tournament series, as all weight requirements to wrestle a particular weight class have been met by the sectional. Wrestling 152 at Conseco would not prohibit you from dropping to 145 at Team State, etc. if you had certified at 145. If, however, you had certified at 152 you could not drop to 145. All wrestlers had two options to wrestle at Team State... the weight at which they certified, and one weight class above that. Flamme certified at 145. Tsirtsis and Rattay both certified at 135, although they chose to wrestle at 140 in the individual series. Specifically, Flamme weighed in at less than 151 at Conseco, so making the 148 required to wrestle 145 at Team State was not much of a weight loss to begin with. I'm sure that the 1.5% rule is still in force during the state tournament. I remember in the past there have been some issues with kids at team regional on a Wednesday weighing in with the 1 pound allowance and then not being within the rules to make weight at individual regional that Saturday. The wrestlers were allowed to wrestle but the coach got in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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