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Team State - IT IS TIME!


Darrick Snyder

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Can you explain why it is good for wrestling in Indiana?  I am curious what it has done to grow wrestling at the small school level

 

You really are a selfish sob aren't you Y2, if it doesnt help you out why do it. I guess it is just easier to reformat the tourney so you can place higher than actually work to place higher.

 

 

But wanna know why it was good. Because it raised the competition level on many teams. Look at Mishawaka and Penn for example. Before team state, both of these schools had lineups where they had really good wrestlers, and then some avg wrestlers, and even a few bad wrestlers. Why? because the main priority for a coach was to groom his best wrestlers to be good because the best wrestlers were what the team needed to place well or win a state title. Teams state comes along and boom! Now 3 or even 5 really good wrestlers no longer gets either of these teams a shot at the state title. It now takes A WHOLE TEAM! That means coaches have to not only groom their best, but also their average, and even their bad wrestlers. I mean look at the records on the program at team state. Not many .500 or worse records for any individuals on those teams (i counted 7 losing records for those wrestlers who were in the blue), all those teams were pretty solid top to bottom.  So what does that mean? better competition throughout the state. And what does better competition mean? Better wrestlers as a whole. Now I am sorry that you can't see that, i really am. But i guess its easy to ignore that when you know your team has a better shot at winning through the other format. Like i said, absolutely selfish y2. You should be ashamed of your attitude.

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Our kids are smart enough to know when advancing to team state is an option.  If there is opportunity we will push it, but there is no sense putting false hope on kids just to set them up to fail.  The kids are not dumb and know if they have a realistic shot at something like that.

 

thats an attitude of a loser right there..... with that kinda attitude from a coach, no wonder they never had a shot.

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thats an attitude of a loser right there..... with that kinda attitude from a coach, no wonder they never had a shot.

So as coaches we should pump it up that we are going to make it to team state every year?  Do that even when Yorktown and Bellmont beat us by 20+ in duals? 

 

The kids are smart enough to know if we are blowing smoke up their butt or not.  If you do that every year they lose faith in you as a coach. 

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Its not desiring it, its telling a fact.  Talk to any AD and they will tell you the team portion is done.  People were calling this many years ago because the team series is for about 15 teams in the state at most and now it is dead because people didn't want to expand and were only worried about getting our true champion.  Good bye team state it was fun while it lasted.

 

Joe - do you know for a FACT that it's over - I heard this weekend that the IHSAA told Center Grove to plan to run Team State again next year.  

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You really are a selfish sob aren't you Y2, if it doesnt help you out why do it. I guess it is just easier to reformat the tourney so you can place higher than actually work to place higher.

 

 

But wanna know why it was good. Because it raised the competition level on many teams. Look at Mishawaka and Penn for example. Before team state, both of these schools had lineups where they had really good wrestlers, and then some avg wrestlers, and even a few bad wrestlers. Why? because the main priority for a coach was to groom his best wrestlers to be good because the best wrestlers were what the team needed to place well or win a state title. Teams state comes along and boom! Now 3 or even 5 really good wrestlers no longer gets either of these teams a shot at the state title. It now takes A WHOLE TEAM! That means coaches have to not only groom their best, but also their average, and even their bad wrestlers. I mean look at the records on the program at team state. Not many .500 or worse records for any individuals on those teams (i counted 7 losing records for those wrestlers who were in the blue), all those teams were pretty solid top to bottom.  So what does that mean? better competition throughout the state. And what does better competition mean? Better wrestlers as a whole. Now I am sorry that you can't see that, i really am. But i guess its easy to ignore that when you know your team has a better shot at winning through the other format. Like i said, absolutely selfish y2. You should be ashamed of your attitude.

So helping 20 teams in the state while the other 290 didn't get anything out of it is good for the sport?  Please explain to me how something is good for the sport when it only affects 7% of the teams in the state.

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Joe - do you know for a FACT that it's over - I heard this weekend that the IHSAA told Center Grove to plan to run Team State again next year. 

Bobby Cox has stated there will be changes and all the ADs I have talked to have said that it won't be around.  It is not even discussed at the area AD meetings.  AD's on the board have also said that it is dead. 

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So as coaches we should pump it up that we are going to make it to team state every year?  Do that even when Yorktown and Bellmont beat us by 20+ in duals?  

 

My junior year, Penn kick our butts in the dual meet, and we lost our only senior due to a broken collarbone the same night. So you know what we did, we packed it up and didn't do much because we know Penn was way better than us, and that we had no shot to win sectionals. Oh wait, no we didn't i forgot, joe caprino wasn't our coach. No we worked out butts off, despite being totally humilated. Did we win? no, but did we enter the sectionals thinking we could only get 2nd place? Heck no, we were just as upset at losing the sectionals as we were the dual meet.

 

Same with football, we lost about 49-0 to penn in the regular season. But guess what, we still showed up and believed that we could win in sectionals. Did we win? No, but atleast we gave it our all. But you can't give it your all if you think you can't win before the game or match even starts.

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I heard today that Team State will be here again next year...not saying it is a fact, but the IHSAA is a business.  How much money did the IHSAA make???  You telling me that they are going to walk away from that kind of money?  Not to mention that was one heck of an exciting day for a great sport.

 

pin2win,

 

I could not agree with you more...Coach Harper has built a stronger team because of Team State.  Mishawaka and Penn are both better wrestling programs because of team state.  My favorite part of coaching wrestling is the team aspect.  The best kid in your lineup is just as important as your worst kid.  Focusing on the TEAM makes your INDIVIDUALS better!

 

Want some examples?

 

Danny Abu of Mishawaka had 20 losses and made it to Individual State last year for Mishawaka...why?  Because we knew he was huge in us winning as a team..he knew it too...we worked him over ALL the time!  He got just as much attention as Paul Beck...

 

 

Look at Penn's 189 Mike Ham - that kid has gotten BETTER and BETTER EVERY single time I see him wrestle...lots of losses, but he made it to indvidual state..why?  My guess is Harper and his staff knew that Ham was just as important as Alex Gregory...

 

Snyder

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So helping 20 teams in the state while the other 290 didn't get anything out of it is good for the sport?  Please explain to me how something is good for the sport when it only affects 7% of the teams in the state.

 

did any of those 290 wrestle wrestler from the 20 teams? Yep, and guess what? They wrestle better competition, and wrestler better competition makes for better wrestlers. So even the 290 schools who never made it were able to wrestle better competition.

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My junior year, Penn kick our butts in the dual meet, and we lost our only senior due to a broken collarbone the same night. So you know what we did, we packed it up and didn't do much because we know Penn was way better than us, and that we had no shot to win sectionals. Oh wait, no we didn't i forgot, joe caprino wasn't our coach. No we worked out butts off, despite being totally humilated. Did we win? no, but did we enter the sectionals thinking we could only get 2nd place? Heck no, we were just as upset at losing the sectionals as we were the dual meet.

 

Same with football, we lost about 49-0 to penn in the regular season. But guess what, we still showed up and believed that we could win in sectionals. Did we win? No, but atleast we gave it our all. But you can't give it your all if you think you can't win before the game or match even starts.

We never said we didn't try, but we don't put false hopes into our kid's heads only to see them fail each and every year.  We lost a semi-state qualifier and replaced him with a first year wrestler, sorry but when the margin for error is extremely small a 9-12 point swing in EVERY match doesn't cut it.  

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I could not agree with you more...Coach Harper has built a stronger team because of Team State.  Mishawaka and Penn are both better wrestling programs because of team state.  My favorite part of coaching wrestling is the team aspect.  The best kid in your lineup is just as important as your worst kid.  Focusing on the TEAM makes your INDIVIDUALS better!

 

I would hope you'd agree... Cause i stole that argument from you hahahahaha

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did any of those 290 wrestle wrestler from the 20 teams? Yep, and guess what? They wrestle better competition, and wrestler better competition makes for better wrestlers. So even the 290 schools who never made it were able to wrestle better competition.

The other 290 teams focus on getting kids to individual state.  They don't care about the team state series and know it is a lost cause.

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We never said we didn't try, but we don't put false hopes into our kid's heads only to see them fail each and every year.  We lost a semi-state qualifier and replaced him with a first year wrestler, sorry but when the margin for error is extremely small a 9-12 point swing in EVERY match doesn't cut it.  

 

well whether you admit it or not... that is an attitude of giving up, sorry y2.

 

The other 290 teams focus on getting kids to individual state.  They don't care about the team state series and know it is a lost cause.

 

but are not those wrestlers from the other 290 schools getting better due to the fact they are facing better competition? Better competition equals better wrestlers. Better wrestlers means more respect for the state in the wrestling world.

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Yes class it, cause it will make our state better. More coaches will have to focus on all their wrestlers instead of a few. That means there will be more solid teams and better competition for individuals who are not on solid teams, which means better wrestlers all around.

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Our kids are smart enough to know when advancing to team state is an option.  If there is opportunity we will push it, but there is no sense putting false hope on kids just to set them up to fail.  The kids are not dumb and know if they have a realistic shot at something like that.

Y2 seems to forget that his team could have easily won the carroll sectional in two of the past three seasons.  He also fails to mention that a small school won that sectional in two of those three years, his team has had plenty of chances they are extremely competitve.  

 

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well whether you admit it or not... that is an attitude of giving up, sorry y2.

Its a realistic attitude.  I am not going to tell our 5-25 wrestler that he is going to make it to state when he will probably not make it past the rat tail round.  Setting kids up for failure is a losing business.  How many years have you coached?  I am curious how you know so much about coaching.

 

but are not those wrestlers from the other 290 schools getting better due to the fact they are facing better competition? Better competition equals better wrestlers. Better wrestlers means more respect for the state in the wrestling world.

The better competition isn't a product of the team state series.  Penn, Mishawaka, Lawrence North, Mater Dei, etc always had good kids on their teams, this is nothing new since team state was started.

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Joe you don't know what all of the other programs do.  The ones that have losing mentalities like you have underachieve however.   You can take that to the bank.  

 

Man if I was your athletic director I would fire you in a minute because you are poisoning the minds of your kids.

I know that most coaches don't care about the team series and if team state is abolished won't shed a tear.

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Yes class it, cause it will make our state better. More coaches will have to focus on all their wrestlers instead of a few. That means there will be more solid teams and better competition for individuals who are not on solid teams, which means better wrestlers all around.

But we won't know who the true champion is?  How does watering down our state tournament help the sport?  That is ridiculous. 

 

Will they be able to have a spotlight at Center Grove if we have 2 classes going at once?

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