Jump to content

weight class changes?


charger.dad

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 151
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

What was option "B" again?

 

 

lol......my my how we get off track....many passionate people on this board......so is it gonna change this upcoming season or not (if they choose the new weight classes)?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Jacob & Nickstero: Your posts deal with too many feelings and emotions.  Don't you realize that it's all  very scientific as to the reasons why 103 needs to be raised to 106 or 107.  The stats dictate that all of wrestlings ills will be cured for the following reasons:

3) Finally, and this is the one that makes the most sense to me, the 140 pound freshman won't get depressed anymore watching a 100 pound freshman get a varsity letter just becasue he was small while the 140 pounder toiled for a year on the j.v. squad.  Actually, he'll feel better about the behemoth that was a junior that never wrestled a day in his life but wrestled 285 and made it to Conseco after being on the team for all of two months.  It will be better because the behemoth was a junior and not an underclassman freshman.

 

That is why wrestling has weight classes so smaller kids could win....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally feel that one of the best parts about wrestling was that no matter what your size is you could compete.  I do not agree with 103 being raised and you can take the statistics and shove it.  I have always liked having a class dominated by freshman and sophmores it gives the little guys a place to start.  All this is going to do is take some 112 pounders that would have had no way of making it to 103 and now they will be cutting more weight to go to the lowest class. Kids are always going to try to get down to the lowest weight they can.  I always felt the big gap between 112 and 103 helped seperate the 2 weight classes so there was less jumping between the 2. 

 

I think this is going to take opportunities for success from some kids that may need it the most.  I admit I am biased I wrestled 103 my freshman and sophmore year, and there is now way I would have had any success my freshman year and possibly not as much my sophmore year without it being that low.  I was old for my grade (missed a year because of illness) and I still only weighed 98 pounds my freshman year after a big mac and a shake.  What I do know is growing up I tried every sport and could never do well because of my size but when I wrestled it did not matter and that is where my true love for the sport comes from.  Personally I am not near as concerned with the 140 pound freshman at least he has a chance against kids his same size.  But if a kid only weights 95 to 100 (again don't care if there aren't as many) he will not be able compete against kids cutting to make 106 that is just to much of a weight difference for a little guy.

 

I think some peoples motivations for these weight class changes are more to do with team goals than taking into account every individual.  But hey we don't have wrestle backs so why should we begin thinking more about the kids than ourselves.  Way to go wrestling community step on the little guy.  (Literally)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think some peoples motivations for these weight class changes are more to do with team goals than taking into account every individual.  But hey we don't have wrestle backs so why should we begin thinking more about the kids than ourselves.  

 

Not sure I'm clear on your last point.  For one I don't see the change in weight classes as having much to do with coaches views on individual vs. team success.

 

 

If it did however I think most coaches view of a team goal is the opposite of what I am interpreting from your statement.

 

To me taking into account "every individual" would mean what is best for the entire team rather than the best weigh class for one or two studs.

 

Also, to me focusing on the team goal would be for the sake of trying to reward the efforts of everyone wrestlers who put work into regardless of it they were a individual state champ or not.  This doesn't seem like a selfish goal for the coach to develop.  To me the coaches thinking more about themselves would be those who ignores ways to improve the entire tam and instead put all of his coaching methods into the development of his one or two studs.  Then blaming the rest of the kids for underachieving while at the same time claiming the state success of the one or two studs.  To me it seems focusing on team goals would benefit the most individuals on the team rather a system where no type of competition existed and coaches would be more inclined to focus on just the few over the many.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure I'm clear on your last point.  For one I don't see the change in weight classes as having much to do with coaches views on individual vs. team success.

 

My point is that I hear allot of chatter on this board about not every team being able to always fill the 103 weight class, therefore we need to raise it.  (TEAM)  But what about the percentage of kids that will no longer be able to achieve success because of the weight class being raised.  (INDIVIDUAL)  I do realize that wrestling is a team sport, I have been a coach for around 15 years now, and one the main goals is for the whole team to achieve success.  But like I said before, I am biased and I think we are taking an opportunity away from some little guys that really need it.  I remember when the weight class was 98 pounds then 103 now 106?  10 years for now is it going to 110?  Where do we stop.  I also realize part of it is because of the hormones that are now in our milk, but what about the kids that only get fed organic.  ;) ;D 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

aoberlin - feel your pain but you aren't going  to get any sympathy from the loudest posters on this site.  You're thinking too emotionally and there is no place for that on this website.  The "numbers" state that by changing the weight classes more kids will be given opportunities to wrestle.  Makes sense that there will be 3 weight classes north of 189 pounds instead of two like we have now.  Can't wait to watch 3 dancing bear matches instead of just two.  Those weight classes alone will drive kids to the sport in droves, I'm sure.  Additionally, forfeits will be a thing of the past now that 103 has been raised.  Whatever, the changes have been made and there's no use crying over spilt milk but you are certainly going to see more kids over 120 pounds make the drop to 106, I guarantee that.  Oh wait, that won't happen because of the IHSAA mandated weight loss guidelines.  One or two h.s. in the entire state religiously abide by those guidelines so we know it's having a tremendous impact on kids not losing too much weight.  Man, I've hit a lot of hot buttons in a very short paragraph:

1) Leave 103 where it is and give the little guy a chance

2) Forfeits aren't really that big of a deal, they certainly are not one of the primary ills afflicting our sport

2) Heavier weight wrestling is boring and not really wrestling at all

3) Few h.s.'s abide by the weight loss guidelines put forth by the IHSAA

Probably offended just about everyone with those points outlined above.  LOL. :);):D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::):P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My point is that I hear allot of chatter on this board about not every team being able to always fill the 103 weight class, therefore we need to raise it. 

 

I doubt that the chatter on this board has much influence on the NFHS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not sure why you have such issue with my argument.  We need to get away from pushing weight cutting in our sport.  It hurts wrestling as much as anything does.   You will find a lot of the best athlete's in most schools being kids who would fit in from 185 to 215.  Those are, typically, easy weight classes to fill, but would be just as easy, in a lot of cases, if you added a third weight class in there. 

 

It doesn't matter what the weight classes may be, some guys are going to cut hard. How many coaches who complain about weight cutting have actually taken the time to understand the physiology associated with proper weight cutting? How many have taken the time to educate themselves and their athletes about nutrition? Weight cutting is part of any sport with weight classes and that will NEVER change. In light of this fact, we should be teaching proper weight loss techniques and giving nutritional guidelines to those kids who want to make a larger cut. I agree that some kids take things to unhealthy extremes regardless of nutrition, but in my experience, they're the exception. The bulk of the kids make what should be a simple 10 lb cut difficult because they're ignorant and undisciplined throughout the week or days leading up to competition. The takeaway I want my kids to get... eating right throughout the week is A LOT EASIER than grinding hunger, dehydration and exhaustion for a couple days leading up to competition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bulk of the kids make what should be a simple 10 lb cut difficult because they're ignorant and undisciplined throughout the week or days leading up to competition.

 

Guru, I agree with everything you've stated and you stated that you think a "simple 10 lb cut" is a good and reasonable amount of weight to cut and again, I agree with you.  However, most every kid that cuts 10 pounds to get to a weight is almost certainly outside of the guidelines of the weight loss program.  Probably not the 225 pounder who loses 10 to get to 215 or the 295 pounder to get to 285 aren't.  But the 135 who drops to 125 more than likely is unless he begins his weight loss regimen in July for the upcoming season.  By the letter of the law as put forth by the IHSAA, that 10 pound cut you think is so simple really isn't.  And tell me, do you think the kid that weighs 122 is goinng to cut 9 to get to 113 or go that additional 7 to get to 106?  Frankly, I think there are a lot of kids in our wrestling community that would do that.  I don't believe that would be as much of an exception as you might think. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a kid wants to cut from 122 to 106.  That is what I call fools gold.  They may wrestle well at first but by

simi-state they will be done.  I have seen this several times.  Coaches need to do a better job of controling

weight cuts.  There are so many naive parents and wrestlers who think the bigger the cut the stronger you will

be.  That may hold true for your one big off season tournament but doing this for 5-6 weeks in a row in way different.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very true jchas,  My son wrestled 103 All year.  Monday he would come in weighing 110-112 and almost starve the whole week to get down.  By the time regionals came he was mentally done.  Should have placed 2nd but got 4th. Losing to a kid he had just beat the week before 7-2, and beat the kid everytime they wrestled not even close matches.  Then he and the coach get into argument and he doesn't even go to semi-state.  Now he weighs 130 and feels great, said he is wrestling whatever he weighs coming into season next year!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

correct me if I am wrong. If a wrestler weighs 110-112 on a monday and loses 7-9 pounds to wrestle 103 that saturday wouldn't that violate the % of weight allowed by the rules in a week. I think that is like 8 % in a week. I thought it was like 2 % a week. so that should take 4 weeks for that wrestler. i would hope in todays world with the info we are priveledged to get that wrestlers were not doing the misinformed things we did 25 years ago,  we were dumber back then, before someone was smart enough to let the wrestlers know that is terrible for your body. Does a 122 pound wrestler even have enough body fat to lose 16 pounds, 13 % of their body weight, and still be at the minimum allowed body fat? I wish I had the answer but I am sure that there will always be cutting in wrestling, we just need to strive to make it safe as possible for the kids. Maybe a rule needs to be in place that ALL wrestlers weigh in on mondays and it is tracked to help eliminate the drastic weight cuts. I know that is moree paperwork but if the kids safety is what we want we need to put forward a little more effert. just a thought. jmo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt any one will quit if 103 is bumped up to 106, it'll just take the kids that come in under 100 a little more time to reach success and they'll have to rough it out like all the other under class men that come in at the mid weights. 106 will also lower the chances of forfeits and may have a few more upper class men added to the weight classes... kids that come in at 108 109 and maybe even 110 would have a much easier cut. Is you go with 106 and 113 as the lowest weight class that's only a 7 pound difference compared to a 9 pound difference. I also think 170 182 and 195 is a good idea because the gap between 171 and 189 was too much of a gap for how athletic that weight area is. if you came in at 180 which isn't an odd weight you hat to either cut 9 pounds or give up 9 pounds. This is much different than weighing 230 (if you weigh less than that you should be able to make 220) wresting 285.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does a 122 pound wrestler even have enough body fat to lose 16 pounds, 13 % of their body weight, and still be at the minimum allowed body fat?

 

The simple answer is more than likely no.  But do you think that stops kids from doing it?  It happens all the time and to think that it doesn't is burying your head in the sand.  Everything stated about how bad it is to cut a lot of weight is accurate.  But as long as one kid makes that 15 to 20 pound drop (and believe me, it happens more often than you think) to hit a particular weight then other kids will follow suit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coaches are going to self-report violations?

 

It is not about reporting it.  It is about taking charge of your program and make sure

kids are not cutting to much weight.  Many times they say they leave it up to the kid

but that is a huge mistake.  Coach should know what there kids weigh and how much

body fat they have and then tell them what is the lowest weight they can go to.

Otherwise the culture will never change.  This is a coaches problem plane and simple.

If a collage coach is supposed to know what his kids are doing 24-7.  Wrestling coaches can

keep track of his kids weight.  Believe me the good ones all know what their kids weigh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because the 103 lbs freshman is better than everyone else in the school that is his size.

The 145 freshman that is better than everyone else his size can do the same.

1) Mitch Slega  3rd in state as freshman 185

2) Auston Neighbarger  State placer as a freshman 152

3) Vincent Corsaro  State placer 135

I am sure there are many others that make their varsity team and don't make it to State.

In your opinion what weight does real wrestling began?

 

 

I had a kid on Corsaro's team at Cathedral and as a freshman 215lbs and in the ticket round to state with just over 2 minutes left in the match  hurt his ankle and had to injury default. But certainly could have placed at state that will be about 230lbs - 240lbs next season. Would love to see a 230lbs or 240lbs, and I think there would be fewer forfeits at 230lbs weight than 103lbs but if I were a betting man I would guess this wont happen, but because of the hugh gap between 215lbs and 285lbs I think it only makes sense to add a weight between 215lbs and HWT. Just My Opinion!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Smooth " coaches are going to self report the violations?" I guess I would like to believe it is more that they are looking out the health and well being of the kids. To me I would like to see the kids lose weight safely rather than try to punish anyone. I think a coach that lets a kid lose 8 % of their body weight in a week isn't a coach I would want my kid wrestling for. I think the parents need to watch the weight lose as well.  I know rule violations happen, just look at steroid use, but I think that is the exception rather than the rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1oldwerestler  "The simple answer is more than likely no.  But do you think that stops kids from doing it?  It happens all the time and to think that it doesn't is burying your head in the sand.  Everything stated about how bad it is to cut a lot of weight is accurate.  But as long as one kid makes that 15 to 20 pound drop (and believe me, it happens more often than you think) to hit a particular weight then other kids will follow suit."

 

I dont have my head buried in the sand. I know kids lose weight thats part of wrestling, but it is different is a kid loses 2-3 pounds a week for 7-8 weeks if that is within the guidelines set up, and I believe there is a part that says a Dr. can write a letter to make some changes to this plan not 100% sure ,but I thought I read something about that. I dont know if there is a % limit on how much someone can lose, I guess I thought that 13 % was a high percentage for a kid. At least that way someone is monitoring the weight lose. The guidelines are set up for the safety of the kids. Like I said years ago we did some bad ( dangerous things, rubber suits, pop can therapy) I hope that we would have learned from the past. For example in the past you would get one water break in a 2-3 hour football practice but over the years we have learned that more is required for safety, so it has changed for the better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ill be honest. all this talk about how they wanna take out 103 to put in a weight or two for the upper weights is stupid. why would i wanna watch two weights that there gonna put in at 182 and higher. we should add more weights to the smaller middle weights if anything. because the upper weights are dumb there slow they stall thats all they do. idk people wanna put a 240 weight in. thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard of. and why would they split 135 and 140 to 138 when thats where all the action is.

people talk about getting a freshman for 103 or when theres a freshman who cant make varsity there first year in the middle weights. well the truth is, is that maybe the freshman in the middle weights just need to get better. thats the great thing about wrestling. either u wanna be good or u dont. if u want to u get better in the off season. people say its not fair for small schools. its completely fair. fill a team and getter better. thats all there is to it.

my two cents ;D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm actually surprised we haven't gone to weighing in at the mat.

 

Really, that is the solution that would fix the entire weight cutting problem.  With a matside weighin, wrestlers wouldn't have time to replenish their fluids and have something to eat before they go out to wrestle.  There would be almost no way someone who was cutting a drastic amount of weight would be able to be competitive, as they would be way too drained to wrestle to their full ability.  No one would cut more than around 5 lbs if matside weighins were implemented.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

correct me if I am wrong. If a wrestler weighs 110-112 on a monday and loses 7-9 pounds to wrestle 103 that saturday wouldn't that violate the % of weight allowed by the rules in a week. I think that is like 8 % in a week. I thought it was like 2 % a week. so that should take 4 weeks for that wrestler. i would hope in todays world with the info we are priveledged to get that wrestlers were not doing the misinformed things we did 25 years ago,  we were dumber back then, before someone was smart enough to let the wrestlers know that is terrible for your body. Does a 122 pound wrestler even have enough body fat to lose 16 pounds, 13 % of their body weight, and still be at the minimum allowed body fat? I wish I had the answer but I am sure that there will always be cutting in wrestling, we just need to strive to make it safe as possible for the kids. Maybe a rule needs to be in place that ALL wrestlers weigh in on mondays and it is tracked to help eliminate the drastic weight cuts. I know that is moree paperwork but if the kids safety is what we want we need to put forward a little more effert. just a thought. jmo.

its from weigh in to weigh in what you lose during the week is your business,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.