Rookies03 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 its not good to say "grab a whistle and get at it" for many reasons. you chose to be an official and to do your best, if you don't want to do it or are doing a poor job, step down. i agree no one is perfect, but i saw a ton of poor officiating at new castle semi-state this year. blowing obvious calls, making calls to early and in kieffers case to late. decisions made in harveys match were left unknown and from a spectator thats unacceptable. i work a full time job and am unable to fulfull an officialls committment, and i would also have to give up coaching to do it. not even a close decision in my book. but i guarantee i would do a better job than some that i saw doing the state tourney, and they even had two officials. It takes passing an open book test, attending a rules interpertation meeting which is offered online, attending a certification clinic every other year and officiating 5 varsity matches to officiate the state tournament series. You can get 5 dual meets in 1 saturday. So I wouldnt say having a full time job is a very good reason for not officiating. Im pretty sure almost every official out there has a full time job. Bottom line if your bashing officials on this board you must think you can do a better job so get your license and help solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 B : :U :oM :'(P 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMoreStalling Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think that rule changes for stalling is the best option. Try to take it out of the officials disgression as much as possible with set rules. The defensive takedown is left to opinion and the refs will still be harassed, maybe more so. Lets look at things like backing up, not circling; push outs;clinging through the crotch etc to prolong takedowns. These are not all the answers and some may not work, but its worth getting someone to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingDad78 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 We have an ISHAA Commissioner who openly advocates getting rid of Team State. I think if the product is better, you would have more people in the stands. Higher attendance means it is tougher to do away with Team State. I saw outstanding wrestling and wrestlers at Conseco. I also saw wrestlers win and advance without performing an offensive move. This type of wrestling is boring and people do not want to watch it. People want to see action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 We have an ISHAA Commissioner who openly advocates getting rid of Team State. I think if the product is better, you would have more people in the stands. Higher attendance means it is tougher to do away with Team State. I saw outstanding wrestling and wrestlers at Conseco. I also saw wrestlers win and advance without performing an offensive move. This type of wrestling is boring and people do not want to watch it. People want to see action. Action is what everyone wants but without changes in the rules. A large portion of high level matches will be won by the defensive wrestler. 1) I also like the rule that if a takedown is started in bounds it counts as a takedown. This would really encourage guys to take chances on the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingDad78 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I am for anything that will provide more action. I hate watching wrestling where you know the wrestler will not attempt an offensive move. They wait until overtime and see who can hold who down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 What is worse is when a wrestler runs to the edge then waits for the other guy to take a shot and then tries to counter. Knowing full well that they can more than likely get out of bounds if they get in trouble. I saw one kid get all the way to state doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Amen, Brother....Amen! That would stop most of the griping about the officiating. They make the whole uniform for officials in all sizes, but having the balls to actually do it.....well they are harder to come by !!!!! : Not a good response from an official. Sounds like a defensive answer to a valid point. It's not a matter of "do you think you can do better". I think it's about education. More officials need to watch video of the really good officials doing their job. Consistency on stalling calls is a big issue. It's very obvious. I saw a match in the semi's at state where one wrestler dragged another across nearly the entire circle clinging to his ankle, without even a warning. I don't need to have the stripes on to know this is stalling. Very frustrating to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Consistency in calling stalling, is a loaded statement. The rules book states that both wrestlers will make every effort to remain inbounds, now that sounds simple doesn't it? The rule book also states that if either wrestler goes out of the 10ft circle without making contact with his or her opponent stalling shall be called. But it isn't, and why not? If we repeatedly end up at the edge of the mat we have to ask ourselves how did we get there, and you could say the action took us there, but that can be an excuse too. If we end up at the edge of the mat repeatedly the official has to ask himself how did we get there and he can tell both wrestlers that the next time we get there I am going to hit someone for stalling, or both. If every match is like the Ayrsman match with the action never ending, the official has no need to get involved in the match, and those are the matches everyone talks about including the officials. We coach our officials that if you are thinking about it call it, don't say come on red or come on green lets get busy, our signal for stalling is the officials only tool for making such a statement. The rule book states that the job of the official is to eliminate stalling from the sport of wrestling. The answer and I have suggested this on the NFHS survey over the years, how about picking one or two tournaments and allow us to install zone lines on the mat at this tournament or super dual, and see how it works, it would do tow things it would shorten the matches and make the official call what he should anyway, if the offender doesn't work back in toward the center of the mat. There would be less tuffer edge calls, and if they don't like it return to the way we do it now. Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 It would also help if we got quicker on the stalemate calls! I see this at the collage level. I can't stand when the wrestlers are stuck in a non scoring position for 20, 30 or even 40 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekocottonball Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Some ignorant members of the NFHS are terrified of folkstyle being too much like FS. So they ignore positive changes that really could improve folkstyle, just because the internationally community in FS thought of it first. Hence the NFHS ignores things like the push out rule, the choice when passivity is called or placing wrestlers on their feet if no action is occuring while down. I think at least one of these rules implemented in folkstyle would drastically improve high school and college wrestling action and excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatoneguy Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 i think this would be a huge change and prolly will nvr happen in our lifetime but if we did kind of like freestyle where if they go out of bounds then the other man gets a point. that would eleminate alot of "outter edge wrestling" and would make it so they cant run as much in fear of being pushed out for a point. this would make stalling a lil less of an issue. now don't get me wrong, there will still be wrestlers in the MIDDLE stalling and just defending but atleast possibly would eleminate the runners and outer edge "hiders" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 A quicker stalemate call epically from your typical shot sprawl situation, would encourage more offense. What happens now is. Wrestler A waits for wrestler B to take a shot. Sense wrestler A is only worried about stopping a shot it is much harder for wrestler B to finish. So now wrestler A sprawls for 15, 20, or even 30 seconds until he finally is able to get behind for 2. If a quicker stalemate was called in these situations you would have fare less defensive take downs. Which would then in turn encourage more offense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Larry Doan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Kudos to the "bestthatneverwas" for audaciously and succinctly placing himself and the nuances of one of the most subjective aspects of wrestling officiating on the forefront. Watching, listening, and analyzing other officials is a great way to make yourself better, but you must still make the call and deal with whatever consequences that come with the job. If a coach can't stick-up for his kid, who can? MCKAJC it is agreed that the anatomical answer given seemed not only defensive, but a little "power trippish" As a spectator, I, too, become frustrated and confused by what I think is obvious. A monkey could make the stalling call for leaving the ten foot circle without any contact after the start whistle or an out of bounds calls when one foot of each wrestler is on the line, yet officials who make the call are still a berated for making good, sound judgements and choices while enforcing the rules. "Best" mentioned in a previous post about the evaluation system. Although many would be slow to admit it, there is direct correlation between advancement in the Tournament Series and self-worth, for wrestlers and officials alike. The difficulty comes in making the call and not prostituting yourself for a better rating. Despite rule changes which might help, the people on mat are most responsible promoting the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butt Drag Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Is anybody else fed up with refs either not recognizing or being afraid to make a stalling call? BTW This had been a pet peeve of mine and I created this username before the terrible non-calls in the state finals this weekend Saw a few examples and agree. After watching the video again, I thought in the 119 final, Campbell could have been hit with a few cautions in the 3rd period after about the 4th straight shot from the Ayersman kid...then the obvious no-call 'fleeing the mat' point (or should have been a takedown) was not awarded, followed by double underhooks locked arm contortion intended to be defensive stall while staring at the clock, the next 5 shots, followed by holding the arm of the top guy as he tries to cut you. Thank goodness the Ayersman kid didn't let the refs decide the match for him. The other issue is consistency from the refs on what is called out of bounds and what is in bounds. Seems some refs still call you out if your toe is out, while others let action happen...call it the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Butdrag, you are out if your toe is out. Read the rule book ??? If the toes of the scoring wrestler finish and I said finish in bounds and he has his opponent around the ankles at or near the knees and his opponent is on his butt completley out of bounds he can score a takedown. But if his toes or one of them hits out of bounds and comes back in bounds he should be ruled out of bounds, and no takedown would be awarded, but yet some officials allow additional wrestling in this situation with only the scoring wrestlers feet or toes in bounds, and everything else out of bounds. And this is where the confusion comes into play, there should be no additional wrestling, it is either 2 take down and blow them out of bounds, or no points and blow them out of bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 When in doubt. Count the 2 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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