CallMoreStalling Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Is anybody else fed up with refs either not recognizing or being afraid to make a stalling call? BTW This had been a pet peeve of mine and I created this username before the terrible non-calls in the state finals this weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I think generally the referees did a great job. I didn't see anything egregious. That being said, I think there is a lot of pressure for officials to swallow their whistles in big matches so as not to "decide" the matches. In so doing, they "decide" that stalling will be a factor in determining the outcome. I wish there was more freedom for officials to call big matches the same as all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braves3442 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Im sure Howe and Meyer are . > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingDad78 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 This sport is called wrestling, not running! I saw alot of wrestlers advance because they simply ran to the ring and never made an offensive move. If wrestlers were penalized for going outside of the ring, we would see much better matches. I saw great matches with alot of action, I also saw alot of matches that bored me to death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 How about scoring Stalling like Cautions with the difference being after one warning instead of two you start to lose a point everytime. No DQs. I think what everyone would like is just to have more consistency amongst Officials. I have seen some call it in the blink of an eye and I have seen some that I am pretty sure don't think the rule even exist. Let us keep in mind it is easy for us to come on here and criticize these Officials, but most of us have never officiated a HIGH SCOOL match before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm not a fan of a coach saying block, run or even stall and a wrestler still wouldn't be hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Years ago I used to officiate free style, and if I remember if in the first period it ended 0-0 and the official hadn't called stalling he was berated. This helped me call stalling. I heard on here that the official should stay out of big matches and not call stalling because it could decide the match. If you don't call stalling and the wrestler winning, can run all over the mat and be allowed to win, so now we the official have decided the match by not calling stalling. The official gets rated by coaches, who either like stalling being called and if this is the case it is because they coach their wrestlers to be offensive and aggressive, so the official that calls stalling will get a higher vote from them. Now on the other hand the coach who's wrestlers aren't coached to be aggressive and coaches his wrestlers to play the edge and bail out of bounds when ever they are in jeopardy of being scored on, gets this official that calls stalling and makes the wrestlers use the center of the mat, will get a lower vote from this coach. These votes will decide how far into the tournament series the official works. The rule book states that it is the job of the official to eliminate stalling from the sport of wrestling, and if he does this he will be calling stalling and not be worried if this next stalling call is going mean a lower vote than if he were to just eat his whistle and allow one the wrestlers to play the edge, not shoot on his feet, lay on the bottom. How about there being a system that also penalizes the official that doesn't call stalling. On here I read how the 11-10 match was great, and it is. but the next time you watch a match and it goes 0-0 for six minutes and ask yourself how this could happen with no stalling. It's not to say that if these two wrestlers really went at it then no stalling needs to be called, but that doesn't happen very often. The good programs want stalling called and weaker ones don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Years ago I used to officiate free style, and if I remember if in the first period it ended 0-0 and the official hadn't called stalling he was berated. This helped me call stalling. I heard on here that the official should stay out of big matches and not call stalling because it could decide the match. I'm not positive but I think this was a rule in folkstyle many years ago. From the recesses of my memory, I think I recall this back when I officiated. I'll tell you how long ago that's been.....Chuck Barnett was in high school!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I especially don't like when they call it with under 15 seconds for the first time knowing that they are not going to call it again. I remember one match when the top wrestler was in the same position for 1:45 seconds of the third period and got called for stalling with 13 seconds left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMoreStalling Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 There are many possiblilties to point blame at wrestlers, coaches, or refs. I agree that officiating matches is very difficult as I have done a little myself. I would like to see some changes along the lines of freestyle and greco rules, make stepping out of bounds autmatically stalling. I know you can;t always help it, but Ill bet we see a lot more action in the middle if this were brought to folkstyle. And tsk tsk to the coaches that encourage wrestlers to bail off of the mat, etc!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randalllynch Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't disagree that stalling is a problem, but a 1-0 match does not mean that stalling was an issue. Please take a look at the college ranks, the best matches are low scoring. If a match is 11-10 that only means the two individuals made a lot of mistakes and the the opponent was good enough to catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Remove penalty points for stalling. Instead, when a wrestler is called for stalling, the opponent instantly gets choice of top, bottom or neutral. I think officials will be more apt to call stalling if no points are involved and the wrestlers are still deciding the match themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 More ref to wrestler communication is needed as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robref Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I especially don't like when they call it with under 15 seconds for the first time knowing that they are not going to call it again. I remember one match when the top wrestler was in the same position for 1:45 seconds of the third period and got called for stalling with 13 seconds left. so your answer is just not call it if we dont feel it happens with under 20 seconds left? I try not to even watch the clock when officiating. I dont even like to know who the kids are or their records. It makes it much easier to stay focused on just reffing the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondintheruff Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 More ref to wrestler communication is needed as well then the official would get yelled at "dont coach my wrestler" it is easy to call from the bleachers get your license and a whistle and get after it!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Better ref to wrestler communication, 1-0 matches no stalling, sometimes. The ref to wrestler communication is the warning and then the penalty, not to be harsh. But The official officiates and their coaches coach. By that if I tell the wrestler to shoot, or work in bounds I am coaching him then the coach is upset that I just coached his wrestler into being taken down, or turned to his back or reversed. The official warns because the top man hasn't gotten off his opponents hips, and more times than not after the warning, and we talk about this at least the ones that call stalling. The top man will score a take down, or create activity, that wasn't there before the call. Or the bottom man is making love to the mat and gets warned and, boom he either gets a reversal or and escape, and we as officials will tell the coach and some times the wrestler we should get half of those points, and the wrestler will sheepishly grin and the coaches will in their own way agree and move on. The next time you watch a match and the wrestlers haven't taken a shot in the first minute, and I am not talking about a drop to a knee and a slap at his opponent or a reach, a real shot and stalling is called. Watch the action pick up, the official will hear, from the coach of the wrestler what we shot 4 times, and if you were to look at a video there is not one real shot, just the emotion from it being his wrestler, you will see a better match than two minutes of pushing and shoving, now where I come from that is not wrestling. And if I want to watch 2 guys go at it for 8 and a half minutes and see the score 1-0 nothing I would rather watch paint dry. The best college matches I have done as an official or as a fan watching were the ones that the official made them take a few risks. They aren't going to take any chances unless they are forced to. I just watched the Penn State Minnesota match and the wrestlers and the official had a great match because they were made to wrestle, the only problem is in that match stalling was called and then in the next one no stalling was called. It is just an opinion that not only should they rate an official for calling stalling they should also rate him for not calling stalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbarnett Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm not positive but I think this was a rule in folkstyle many years ago. From the recesses of my memory, I think I recall this back when I officiated. I'll tell you how long ago that's been.....Chuck Barnett was in high school!!! Geez... that was about 10 years after the Ancient Greeks were still wrestling naked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 BUMP!!!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 so your answer is just not call it if we dont feel it happens with under 20 seconds left? I try not to even watch the clock when officiating. I dont even like to know who the kids are or their records. It makes it much easier to stay focused on just reffing the match. My answer would be to call it earlier. I think the refs at the state tournament probably have a good idea of how much time is left in a match. Stalling has never been consistently called in our state and I don't think that will ever change. I guess the correct answer would be for the bottom wrestler to work harder and get out. If you want to wrestler at the next level ie college you have to be able to get out from the bottom position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy74 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Seemed to me like the trendy thing to do this year was to call the top man for stalling if he was winning even when the bottom man had not made an attempt to build a base for 20 or 30 seconds. Also, seems like they give the top guy way too long to hang on the leg. I start a mental 5 count everytime I see a kid get to his feet from bottom and I would say I got to the 5 count at least 10 times without seeing a stall call or an attempt to return the bottom man to the mat. It's especially annoying when it happens 2 or 3 times in a row. One last thing I see alot was top Guy throwing the leg in when the bottom Guy is already up just to get the potentially dangerous call and a fresh start. Again this is especially annoying to see happen 3 times in a row with no stall call issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestthatneverwas Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Good Point Bump!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco4life Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 In folkstyle what I've noticed alot is that the losing wrestler doesnt force the action. He knows he's losing and there is no or maybe a slight up in his effort. Force a stall call. Make it even more obvious that the other wrestler is stalling. When i coached, I taught this and preached this. The Losing wrestler has to force the action. He has to up his pace. Thats his responsability..If the losing wrestler either walks or runs opponent of the mat a few times, makes it look obvious, the ref has no choice but to call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robref Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 then the official would get yelled at "dont coach my wrestler" it is easy to call from the bleachers get your license and a whistle and get after it!!!!!!! Amen, Brother....Amen! That would stop most of the griping about the officiating. They make the whole uniform for officials in all sizes, but having the balls to actually do it.....well they are harder to come by !!!!! : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Not sure this is a problem with refs not calling stalling but a problem with our scoring system. I think there needs to be a way to reward the more aggressive wrestler. What I see now is defensive wrestlers winning more matches then aggressive wrestlers at the higher levels. I have heard a couple of rule changes that may help. 1) Push out rule 2) Standing the wrestlers up after a reasonable amount of time. 3) possibly giving 2 points for a takedown if it comes from and offensive move and only 1 for a defensive move. Do you guys have any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreak104 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 its not good to say "grab a whistle and get at it" for many reasons. you chose to be an official and to do your best, if you don't want to do it or are doing a poor job, step down. i agree no one is perfect, but i saw a ton of poor officiating at new castle semi-state this year. blowing obvious calls, making calls to early and in kieffers case to late. decisions made in harveys match were left unknown and from a spectator thats unacceptable. i work a full time job and am unable to fulfull an officialls committment, and i would also have to give up coaching to do it. not even a close decision in my book. but i guarantee i would do a better job than some that i saw doing the state tourney, and they even had two officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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