polytropos Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I feel like i'm alone on this wall. It's a girl who made a decision to wrestle with boys. We are taught to leave emotion at the door. I've wrestled girls before and you are more conscience about not hitting a high crotch or a butt drag or even pinning them with your stuff in their face. I bring this up because you are mentally conscience that you are wrestling a girl and should respect them at all times. But to forfeit your season because you don't want to wrestle a girl is your problem. Do you think that girl wanted to win like that. It's bad for our sport. Go out there and wrestle her. Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit. -Lombardi- Once you learn to beat/grope women, it becomes a habit. -Polytropos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils27 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Haha good one polytropos Being alive in a tournament is different then winning a state championship. The wrestler can only get 3rd now. He had a shot at being a state champion. He was actualyl favored to win the title. You think he would have made the same decision if he was wrestling in Indiana, where if you lose 1st round your done. Or if he was a Senior you think he would have given up on his shot at a state title? I don't think we will ever know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Girls are in our sport get over it. It is because I love this sport that I will do no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well, kind of. I'm not wanting anyone's PhD thesis on the topic, but I wouldn't mind a simple statement of what it is exactly that could be seen as forbidden if a girl wrestles competitively against a boy. I know scripture quite well, and I'm curious what the reasoning is. That's all. If it just doesn't "seem" like something womanly and that's all the answer I'll get, that's fine. I don't want to be a jerk about it. I'm honestly and truly just curious where people are coming from. My personal understanding of this issue can be explained by something that my old coach, AJ Kalver, once said, when trying to recruit kids to wrestle. AJ explained to these young men that "wrestling is a fight with rules". Looking at our sport from that perspective, it makes perfect sense to me why a young man would say that his religious convictions would not allow him to be in a physical altercation with a female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUPsych Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Parallels? Do tell. As one commentator rightly pointed out (on another site), "Inter-sex wrestling should only be private and only after the wedding." Parallels? Here are a few of the familiar sounding arguments sampled from this board...I'm paraphrasing these: "Women should wrestle against their own type"..."Black Athletes should stay in their own leagues" "Women are inferior and too delicate to wrestle the boys"..."White athletes are superior to black athletes" "Letting Women wrestle against men will ruin our sport"..."Letting black athletes participate in professional sports will ruin the leagues" Even the argument made on a religious basis (especially in regards to women serving specific roles in servitude of men) was made repeatedly during the civil rights movements in regards to the roles of blacks and whites in society and in sports. I guess what I'm saying is that our beliefs should stand the test of time. Those who shared those beliefs about black athletes 50/60 years ago were wrong. Perhaps those who share similar beliefs about female athletes today are just as wrong. Maybe not, but it at least deserves some thoughtful analysis. The formation of core beliefs and principles...like the selection of wives, tattoos, and hair styles...should be considered with the future in mind. IUPsych Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUPsych Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 He didn't quit. This is like Sandy Koufax not pitching on Yom Kippur. It is not quitting. It is a decision made because the individual believes that it is the correct decision to make. And since you are quoting Lombardi, what do you think he would have thought about girls wrestling boys? I think it would be more analogous to Sandy Koufax refusing to pitch to a Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Let me ask a question. You are out on the street and some strange guy walks up to you and takes a swing. You kick his butt bad. The police and the media show up. A story is run on the 6:00 news. Who is made out to be the bad guy? Same situation but this time the stranger is a lady. She takes a swing. You kick her butt bad. The police and the media show up. The story is run on the 6:00 news. Who is made out to be the bad guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Parallels? Here are a few of the familiar sounding arguments sampled from this board...I'm paraphrasing these: "Women should wrestle against their own type"..."Black Athletes should stay in their own leagues" "Women are inferior and too delicate to wrestle the boys"..."White athletes are superior to black athletes" "Letting Women wrestle against men will ruin our sport"..."Letting black athletes participate in professional sports will ruin the leagues" Even the argument made on a religious basis (especially in regards to women serving specific roles in servitude of men) was made repeatedly during the civil rights movements in regards to the roles of blacks and whites in society and in sports. I guess what I'm saying is that our beliefs should stand the test of time. Those who shared those beliefs about black athletes 50/60 years ago were wrong. Perhaps those who share similar beliefs about female athletes today are just as wrong. Maybe not, but it at least deserves some thoughtful analysis. The formation of core beliefs and principles...like the selection of wives, tattoos, and hair styles...should be considered with the future in mind. IUPsych This is where I get out of this conversation. I have way to much respect for the struggles that our civil rights leaders had to go threw to bring them down to this level. P.S. I wrote this comment after the post when I ask the question so just forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Parallels? Here are a few of the familiar sounding arguments sampled from this board...I'm paraphrasing these: "Women should wrestle against their own type"..."Black Athletes should stay in their own leagues" "Women are inferior and too delicate to wrestle the boys"..."White athletes are superior to black athletes" "Letting Women wrestle against men will ruin our sport"..."Letting black athletes participate in professional sports will ruin the leagues" Even the argument made on a religious basis (especially in regards to women serving specific roles in servitude of men) was made repeatedly during the civil rights movements in regards to the roles of blacks and whites in society and in sports. I guess what I'm saying is that our beliefs should stand the test of time. Those who shared those beliefs about black athletes 50/60 years ago were wrong. Perhaps those who share similar beliefs about female athletes today are just as wrong. Maybe not, but it at least deserves some thoughtful analysis. The formation of core beliefs and principles...like wives, tattoos, and hair styles...should be selected with the future in mind. IUPsych So from that logic, we shouldn't separate boys and girls sports at all. Why don't we just have a single classification and let the best athlete win. Why do we have girls basketball? Why do we separate girls track and boys track? Are we not discriminating against a girl if we have to put them on their own basketball team, saying "You are not good enough to play with the boys". We give girls sports different rules to help them out like lowering the net in volleyball, giving them a smaller basketball. This sure seems like segregation. Or it could be that girls and boys are physiologically different, last time I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUPsych Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Or it could be that girls and boys are physiologically different, last time I checked. Yes, I can confirm that that is still true. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Or it could be that girls and boys are physiologically different, last time I checked. Yes, I can confirm that that is still true. ;D well played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Parallels? Here are a few of the familiar sounding arguments sampled from this board...I'm paraphrasing these: "Women should wrestle against their own type"..."Black Athletes should stay in their own leagues" "Women are inferior and too delicate to wrestle the boys"..."White athletes are superior to black athletes" "Letting Women wrestle against men will ruin our sport"..."Letting black athletes participate in professional sports will ruin the leagues" Even the argument made on a religious basis (especially in regards to women serving specific roles in servitude of men) was made repeatedly during the civil rights movements in regards to the roles of blacks and whites in society and in sports. I guess what I'm saying is that our beliefs should stand the test of time. Those who shared those beliefs about black athletes 50/60 years ago were wrong. Perhaps those who share similar beliefs about female athletes today are just as wrong. Maybe not, but it at least deserves some thoughtful analysis. The formation of core beliefs and principles...like wives, tattoos, and hair styles...should be selected with the future in mind. IUPsych The primary reason your comparison fails to hold water is that you are mixing two different arguments. One (the civil rights movement) was claiming equality on matters where it actually exists, namely an equality of human dignity. Blacks were being deprived of certain things based on nothing more than skin color. Obviously, that is absurd. You are trying to take that argument and use it in this case, which is a discussion of something entirely different. If we were claiming that women were sub-human or some such nonsense, your argument would have merit, but we are claiming no such thing. Just because two people possess an equality in human dignity does not mean that they serve the same role in society, or that they should be doing all of the same things. There are differences between the sexes that go far beyond the physiological. They are wired differently, have different strengths and weakness, and as such, are complimentary. Each has a particular and distinct dignity. In fact, it is precisely due to the dignity of the female sex that I am opposed to them wrestling. It is not a matter of depriving them of something they have an equal right to. It is a matter of protecting their dignity, even in cases where they have chosen to forego that themselves., and protecting our sons from a gradually (or not so gradually) eroding view of women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 With all the hygiene concerns this year I can't believe no one has brought up that angle to this story. It's tough enough battling ring worm, staph infection, and impetigo etc. but now we may have to deal with cooties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 With all the hygiene concerns this year I can't believe no one has brought up that angle to this story. It's tough enough battling ring worm, staph infection, and impetigo etc. but now we may have to deal with cooties. lol.....that one made me laugh.....wahoo brother..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 With all the hygiene concerns this year I can't believe no one has brought up that angle to this story. It's tough enough battling ring worm, staph infection, and impetigo etc. but now we may have to deal with cooties. This will have to be added to the athletes physical. Circle, circle, dot, dot, now you have your cootie shot. I pray I didn't just make that up but that it came from the dark recesses of childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 This will have to be added to the athletes physical. Circle, circle, dot, dot, now you have your cootie shot. I pray I didn't just make that up but that it came from the dark recesses of childhood. Oustanding, are you a Doctor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Oustanding, are you a Doctor? There are a lot of available responses for that question . . . but I will go with "only by appointment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 With all the hygiene concerns this year I can't believe no one has brought up that angle to this story. It's tough enough battling ring worm, staph infection, and impetigo etc. but now we may have to deal with cooties. Best post this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Update: Both girls in the bracket lost 2 straight and are out. Also, Nordrup went out after winning one wrestle-back match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcde Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Anyone who says girls should compete against guys in wrestling has never wrestled a girl. No man with any class would ever want to be put in a situation where physically hurting a girl is possible. As someone who has wrestled 4 or 5 girls, its not that your afraid to lose to a girl (if she beats u its because she deserves to because shes a better wrestler) its that your afraid your going to go out there and accidentally break some girls arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydee88 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 IMO, I think it was wrong not to wrestle her; then again that's his choice. We need to look at the situation like this; she is not a girl on the mat; she is a wrestler. I would hit all my moves no different than the next opponent. Also, to give up a chance at winning a state title; not me. It would be no different than a female fg kicker. If there's a bad snap over the holders head and she picks it up and starts to run; she would get tackled no different than a guy. I would also like to tip my hat off to Sara and Kayla this year for an outstanding season. To all you male wrestlers who might be in this situation someday; don't look at her as a girl and be nice because you will be looking up at the lights getting pinned. Like I said before IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHider Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 IMO if i ever wrestled a girl i wouldn't treat it any different then wrestling anybody else hit all my moves exactly the same for hurting a girl wrestling your intention not to go out and hurt some1 its always a shame to c some1 get hurt out on the mat but it happens in our sport just like any other sport thats the risk you take by stepping on the mat shes not just a girl shes a wrestler! For what I think of the wrestler who forfeited he just lost his chance at a state title! Looks like you no how to get 6 points out of a duel meet when u wrestle his school.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 For what I think of the wrestler who forfeited he just lost his chance at a state title! Looks like you no how to get 6 points out of a duel meet when u wrestle his school.... Some things are more important than state titles or 6 points. One of the most impressive things about this kid is that he realizes that; a rare trait for a teenage boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 the topic of boys wrestling girls came up 4 years ago on the old discussion board, At that time I pretty much was in the minority about cross gender wrestling, i finally think most of the people are coming to their senses. This is and will always will be discusting . And I don't now any other way of putting it, For a father to allow his daughter to be grouped and whater else you call it is dispicable. Girls this age have no more common sense than a door knob, so the blame is not on the children here.I think this is an ego rush for any parent who has a daughter, with a little bit of athletic ability. For Gods sakes who in ther right mind would want there daughters to be subjected to this kind of physical contact at this age by the opposite sex, is beyond reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strub1 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I believe the question is do we allow for the current status quo or do 'WE' do something about this? What I mean by 'WE', I mean each and every one of us involved in wrestling. Supporting women's wrestling is the key. Even encouraging more girls to wrestle will change the landscape. If this issue is just ignored as it is now, until a really good lightweight girl wrestler makes strides into State tournaments, this will remain just a talking point only for a couple weeks of the year. Boys and girls wrestle each other all the time at all levels of wrestling. With support from all levels, women wrestling only women could be implemented and successful in just a three years. I am very excited about the coming prospect of Kayla making it to state in one of her next three years, probably next year!! But all of her work, skill, and talent does not make any strides for women's wrestling. It shows that women can make it in the lightest weight classes. This does nothing for the vast number of women that work just as hard, but are unable to break JV because they do not have a small build and are not in the lightest weight classes. Our heavier women Olympic team members are not able to succeed at the HS Varsity level, simply because of the body build difference between boys and girls. With more support from coaches, administrators, parents, etc., we could have groups of girls working out alongside the guys on the wrestling teams. With these groups, we would have practice partners and the ability to have small add-on meets and mini-tourneys with just the women. The IHSAA does not recognize women's wrestling and does not even track the number of women in our HS programs. Adding to the total number of wrestlers across the state of IN will help our sport overall for boys and girls. In my talks with parents, there are so many girls that would like to wrestle, but they simply do not want to wrestle boys. The parents don't want them to wrestle boys. Many parents with boys wrestling don't want their girls to wrestle because they know how physical the sport is. I have been in communication with everyone that I can find the last couple years to gain support for women's wrestling. I sent out emails to every coach and AD in the state and letters to every women wrestler that has registered, and receive only minimal feedback. The change will occur when the system changed as in states like Tennessee, Washington, and Hawaii. All similar in population to IN, but they have taken the proactive step to organize and recognize women's wrestling without the numbers. When this plan is implemented, the numbers grow every year and teams of women form within a couple years. This can occur in IN with or without the support of the IHSAA, it is up to all of us. This Sunday is the United States Girls Wrestling Assocation's (USGWA) state tournament in Indiana at Yorktown HS. Trent McCormick is a strong supporter of women's wrestling and was happy for his club to support this tournament. Trust me there are always other tournaments to go to, but this and a couple others are the best opportunity for all of our GS-HS Girl Wrestlers to show their skill against women from several surrounding states! Support our girls by attending the tournament and telling those girls involved in wrestling to attend girls only events. Darren Strub, ISWA Women's Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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