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Under my plan, classing wrestling would also eliminate Semi State.  Team State would have one representative from each of the 3 evenly distributed classes, from each of the current SS areas.  We would start a week earlier than we currently do, so as to start from a dual meet format, rather than starting from an individual format as we currently do.  It would mean that Team State would be a Final Four for each of the 3 perspective classes.  The Individual tournament would advance only champions in each of the 3 divisions from each Sectional and each Regional.  We would have 8 Regionals and advance the champions in each division to State.  Friday night would be single elimination, as it currently is.  The winning wrestlers would advance to the Semifinals, and would place.  There would be room for some tweaking, but this is a general outline of what I project it to look like.  Let the voting begin!

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The Individual tournament would advance only champions in each of the 3 divisions from each Sectional and each Regional. 

 

This is what I have the biggest problem with in your idea.  Most people will agree with me.  Look at how many Regionals have 2-3 guys that are among the best in the state and deserve the chance to qualify, if not place or win a state championship.

 

I'm all for classing the team tournament, but not at the expense of ruining the individual tournament.

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It's a logical plan but the IHSAA would never approve it.  They would never have a classed team state while keeping the individual state series single class.  It's a risky idea because it's all or nothing.  

 

Your three class scenario would produce three sets of the same dominant teams year after year, segregated from the others.  Class 2 would probably be MD and Yorktown year after year.  Predictable and boring.

 

In Ohio, for example, national powerhouse St. Paris Graham is Class II, and they blow away the field every single year - without ever getting to face Lakewood St. Edward, Class III.  The Graham - St. Ed's dual meet is the real Ohio team dual state championship every year, and it happens in a regular season dual.  Not ideal.

 

Taking only one sectional champ in the individual would take us back to how it was in the 1960s and maybe early '70s.  Is that what we want?

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This is what I have the biggest problem with in your idea.  Most people will agree with me.  Look at how many Regionals have 2-3 guys that are among the best in the state and deserve the chance to qualify, if not place or win a state championship.

 

I'm all for classing the team tournament, but not at the expense of ruining the individual tournament.

 

Let's face it, there is no "perfect system".  But if other sports can eliminate the second best team in the State in a given Sectional, as it often happens in football, as well as other sports, then I think it's fine to do it in the individual tournament.  My other thought on it was just having 4 Super Regionals, and advancing both finalists, or advancing the top 3 kids, and then having the 2's and 3's wrestling on Friday night at State, giving the champs a bye to Saturday.  Would that be better?

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It's a logical plan but the IHSAA would never approve it.  They would never have a classed team state while keeping the individual state series single class.  It's a risky idea because it's all or nothing.  

 

Your three class scenario would produce three sets of the same dominant teams year after year, segregated from the others.  Class 2 would probably be MD and Yorktown year after year.  Predictable and boring.

 

In Ohio, for example, national powerhouse St. Paris Graham is Class II, and they blow away the field every single year - without ever getting to face Lakewood St. Edward, Class III.  The Graham - St. Ed's dual meet is the real Ohio team dual state championship every year, and it happens in a regular season dual.  Not ideal.

 

Taking only one sectional champ in the individual would take us back to how it was in the 1960s and maybe early '70s.  Is that what we want?

 

My plan classes both individual and team.  Class 2 would be Bellmont, this year, and I suspect a lot of years. 

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It's a logical plan but the IHSAA would never approve it.  They would never have a classed team state while keeping the individual state series single class.  It's a risky idea because it's all or nothing.  

 

Your three class scenario would produce three sets of the same dominant teams year after year, segregated from the others.  Class 2 would probably be MD and Yorktown year after year.  Predictable and boring.

 

In Ohio, for example, national powerhouse St. Paris Graham, is Class II, and they blow away the field every single year - without ever getting to face Lakewood St. Edward, Class III.  The Graham - St. Ed's dual meet is the real Ohio team dual state championship every year, and it happens in a regular season dual.  Not ideal.

 

I can certainly see your point and respect your opinion. I look at the argument from the standpoint of what is best for improving the wrestling in Indiana. Quality, quantity, popularity, etc. Most important is to look at what needs to be done to make sure wrestling is a strong and viable sport. I look to other states to see what they do well.  It seems that many states that are considered better wrestling states than Indiana have at least some portion classed.  Many states class both portions, although I am not generally in favor of that as a fan. If it could be proved that classing individual is the way to go for the long term health of the sport, then I might be persuaded to change my opinion.

 

Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Iowa class both. Do they know something we don't or do they have the same arguments.

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I can certainly see your point and respect your opinion. I look at the argument from the standpoint of what is best for improving the wrestling in Indiana. Quality, quantity, popularity, etc. Most important is to look at what needs to be done to make sure wrestling is a strong and viable sport. I look to other states to see what they do well.  It seems that many states that are considered better wrestling states than Indiana have at least some portion classed.  Many states class both portions, although I am not generally in favor of that as a fan. If it could be proved that classing individual is the way to go for the long term health of the sport, then I might be persuaded to change my opinion.

 

Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Iowa class both. Do they know something we don't or do they have the same arguments.

 

I respect the opinions of others as well.  I am glad to see that you look at it from the perspective of what is best for the health of the sport, and not just what's best as a fan.  If I looked at it as what's best as a fan, I would say to class none of it, as I might very well have said 5-10 years ago.  But wrestling is not only surviving, but thriving in our neighboring states like OH, MI, IL, etc., for example.  I can only see class wrestling helping wrestling in our state to continue to grow.  It will bring more kids to the sport, which will bring more parents to the sport, which means a bigger fan base, which means bigger gates, which means more of what the IHSAA is most concerned about---more revenue!

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Bottom line is the IHSWCA is currently conductin a survey to see what are coaches want.  We are missing around 70 of our coaches answers as of now to have a completed survey from every school in State.

 

tskin- I am a former wrestling coach, so I am not currently a member of the IHSWCA.  I think the input of all of the members is important, but I also think that the input of others is also important.

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tskin- I am a former wrestling coach, so I am not currently a member of the IHSWCA.  I think the input of all of the members is important, but I also think that the input of others is also important.

 

I agree but our main objective is to show the IHSAA that the majority of coaches support a decision one way or another. 

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The big schools LOVE to beat up on the little schools, why should we take this away from them and make them wrestle only the other big schools?

 

The IHSWCA survey will not do any good when the biggest schools do not want or care about class wrestling therefore their numbers will skew the data the most.  About 90% of the 1A coaches want classed team, while only 60% of the 3A coaches want it.  

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I am willing to sacrifice team state if that means we have to class the individual portion also.  I do however strongly support classing the team state if we can keep it.

 

Spoken like a true fan, rather than someone who sees the "big picture".

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The big schools LOVE to beat up on the little schools, why should we take this away from them and make them wrestle only the other big schools?

 

The IHSWCA survey will not do any good when the biggest schools do not want or care about class wrestling therefore their numbers will skew the data the most.  About 90% of the 1A coaches want classed team, while only 60% of the 3A coaches want it.  

 

That is a big part of the problem.  The big schools that aren't very good will look at it say, "It doesn't benefit us, so why support it?". 

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I think team state is the best part of wrestling, personally for me in High School winning Sectionals as a team, and wrestling at team regionals in the championship was one of my best memories in my wrestling career and I truly wish i could've been apart of team state. I mean wrestling at Conseco was AWESOME, don't get me wrong but to me being out there for my team, and being with the guys you work so hard with is the best feeling. To me there is nothing better than success as a team because you work each other so hard to become better wrestlers hours upon hours (you guys all know that ;D) but seeing it pay off, and knowing you helped create that championship team is one of the proudest, happiest moments you can have as wrestler and a friend. WE CANNOT abolish team state, without it wrestling will become too individual when truly wrestling is one of the greatest team sports there is. I will be deeply disappointed if it is thrown out, we have to save it.

 

Sincerely,

Snoopy

Class of 2010

 

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I just get a kick out of reading these topics. Since it was I who put it out there every year and was ridiculed over my thoughts.  I saw this coming 10-12 years ago.  No one would listen.  I had people tell me all I cared about was how my teams would do, and I wasn't doing it for wrestling.  I said bull----  to that then and I say bull----  to that now.

 

I hope that team class gets a reprieve I love its atmosphere, but it has to be classed!!!!

 

 

Small schools will travel! The IHSAA can make tons more money by doing this the right way.

 

 

If you are going to Class both the Wisconsin Model is great for Indiana for they are similar in schools that participate in wrestling and in population.  

If they are going to class just the team part then they need to go to true dual meet sectional.

 

 

If they do both you can eliminate semi state and go to a 3 week state indiv tournament.

 

 

Tim Spray

 

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If class wrestling is what they have to do to save team state then I'm all for it! And also Tspray, I believe you are correct small schools, and fans will travel! I went to what would be classed as a 3A high school if wrestling were classed but I know from family that small schools take so much more pride in there success in athletics and giving 1A schools a chance to win a state title as a team in wrestling would boost the sport entirely! Especially in youth programs! Does anyone agree ???

 

Snoopy

Class of 2010

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That is a big part of the problem.  The big schools that aren't very good will look at it say, "It doesn't benefit us, so why support it?". 

 

That is why big schools with surrounding small rural schools were the biggest whiners when they classed basketball.  Richmond, Kokomo, Anderson, etc loved beating up the Cambridge City Lincolns, Taylors and Lapels of the state.  Winning that sectional was pretty easy job security.  Many of these larger schools are still looking for their first classed sectional title.

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The thing I don't want to see happen though is making a classed individual format, I think that is makes Indiana wrestling different and maybe more special than other states, is the individual part is not classed like most states, its such an accomplishment to make it to Conseco with the current system and being a qualifier, placer or Champion is so much more special, than if individual state was classed.

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it should not matter what the fan thinks makes Indiana Special .. College coaches don't think its all that special. They recruit state champs.  They recruit studs.  We have had kids in Indiana if there were class wrestling that could have been 3x or 4x state champs that are losing to other kids that could be 3x or 4x state champs.

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