ENoblewrestling Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It was Peru's choice to wrestle a JV team a few years back and their varsity got to wrestle. I would argue that at least Eastern was up front and didn't try to use deception to rest their varsity. Both of those situations took away from the team series. Neither is what I would consider a good thing, just because one may be more deceptive doesnt make the less deceptive decision correct. They both have added to the problem that our team state has. You should just wrestle your best team possible and these problems can be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Both of those situations took away from the team series. Neither is what I would consider a good thing, just because one may be more deceptive doesnt make the less deceptive decision correct. They both have added to the problem that our team state has. You should just wrestle your best team possible and these problems can be avoided. No one example is being up front and the other was deceptive. I can't believe you are questioning the Eastern coach's decision on what is best for his kids and program. Sounds like you will get your wish and Eastern will be forced to wrestle all their regional qualifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 With all of this being said I do not know the situation at Eastern. I do not know the extent of their injuries. I want to be clear that if a kid is hurt then he should sit. If they are sitting to avoid non-existant injuries, or dont care about the team state, or dont think they can win that is where the problem is. I do not know what they said or talked to Bobby Cox about. It is not my "wish" to have them wrestle all of their regional qualifiers, if their guys are able to go they need to wrestle, if they are hurt they shouldn't be forced to wrestle. I didnt make my self clear earlier, and was reacting to the statements that were made which made it seem as though healthy kids did not want to wrestle in the team series to avoid being hurt, which is wrong. I have no clue on the extent of the injuries at Eastern and feel bad for their kids with real injuries. As far as questioning what is best for his team your putting words into my mouth. Again if his kids are really hurt it is different than if they are choosing to sit them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2212 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 While I am not a Bobby Cox fan, why is he or the IHSAA getting blamed for this situation. It is not their responsibility to call to check on whether a team is going to show. I think that is basically assumed. This thread is about being unprofessional and unethical. These actions and others like it is why they don't listen to the coaches. Stop complaining about the IHSAA not listening and ask what can we do to make them. I would start with doing what is best for the sport ethically and professionally: dressing appropriately (i acknowledge this is smaller than the others listed), not taking a fall and acting like there is a serious injury, showing up to the team series (I personally don't like it, but would show with a full team if given the opportunity), wrestling your varsity lineup in the team series, injury defaulting because you know a draw, trying to get you kid eligible for tournament serious when they made a major mistake, etc... Also, get new blood in the association, top to bottom. Karl brings up a good point, maybe several things need to get blown up, and then start fresh. Sometimes, its easier to bulldoze and rebuild from the ground up. We are trying to put a bandaid on a severed head! If you want to consider the above as being judgmental, that is fine. As a leader, deal with it. I get judged every day in my job, cussed at, threatened to be sued, yelled at, etc. It's part of it, if you don't like being judged, remove yourself from a leadership position. I'm sure the coaches that did the above things all preach daily to their athletes to do the right thing, then turn around and model poor ethics. It has to stop if we want to be dealt with as professionals by the IHSAA. Coach D. Snyder, I liked your comments on one of the other posts regarding classing and 103's. It is refreshing to see a big school coach get the big picture. I'm not sure I had the insight like you until I coached in both situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I really wish some independent wrestling fans would get together and sue the Ihsaa. There needs to be many in support of this and financially back it. Yes Bobby Cox I know you read this site. You sir will one day get all the bad karma you deserve. This guy doesn't give a crap about wrestling and for anyone that has fallen victim to him saying that he does is a fool. Tim Spray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Every other team wrestling in the regional takes the same chance. This is the worst reason yet that I have heard for not wrestling and exactalty what IHSAA was talking about. if the reason you gave is correct then the IHSAA did exactatly what they should have. Fear of getting hurt is not a reason not to wrestle someone, that is a total joke. Totally agree...i've said it before and I"ll say it again..."you play to win the game" people that are successful do not back down from challenges and you do whats right for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 No one example is being up front and the other was deceptive. I can't believe you are questioning the Eastern coach's decision on what is best for his kids and program. Sounds like you will get your wish and Eastern will be forced to wrestle all their regional qualifiers. are you being sarcastic are do you really believe its ok for them not to wrestle? do you live your whole life like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 are you being sarcastic are do you really believe its ok for them not to wrestle? do you live your whole life like this? Sarcastic, but I don't like the way Eastern is being set up as the scapegoat for losing team state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Sarcastic, but I don't like the way Eastern is being set up as the scapegoat for losing team state. ok...i can agree with that. Eastern isn't the only reason but they are part of the problem. And I was never for classing the team tournament but I am starting to be a believer in it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnyg Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I havent read every page so not sure if this has been addressed so if it has I apologize. The sad part is if Eastern is battling sickness which is very possible as it is going around.........I wouldnt want my kid to wrestle a sick wrestler. Next week we will be reading a bunch of complaining about kids who lost because Eastern got them sick. I know for a fact that most of our wrestling team (not Eastern either LOL) battled sickness the week before sectionals so it is very believable to me. I would think people would be happy that Eastern is not putting their sick wrestling team in a room (weigh-ins) or a gym with other teams. Just my thoughts and once again sorry if this was brought up previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think Evansville Mater Dei would disagree with you. Apples To oranges I think ??? They are a private school with a lot of tradition and a lot of geographical drawing power. Not to mention a foundation that begins in Rome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 This topic should have never reached this board. The IHSAA should have tried their best to talk the Eastern AD out of making the decision to withdraw the team. Once that conversation was over, the IHSAA needed to call the superintendent of the school corp to discuss the situation with him/her. If the IHSAA had handled this situation better, none of us would have known anything about it. This is about lack of communication. I can not believe two people were allowed to make a decision to withdraw a team from an IHSAA sanctioned event. This is a "championship" team, they are trying to withdraw. I also stuggle with the fact that a person in a major management role within the IHSAA can not resolve this conflict without pointing fingers and allowing this to be splashed across the internet. The information age has arrived and I personally think it makes for a greater democracy were issues are out in the open not swept under the rug. Sorry to disagree with you. Did anyone really care about Eastern HS until this explosion took place? We talk about ethics and morals and what is legal or not legal. In defense of Eastern HS, what they did was try to do what was best for the kids. It was legal and above board not under the table. Isn't that what the big programs like to claim when their ethics are brought in to question? Eastern HS, as it has been said, made a decision which turned out to be the straw that broke the camels back. Let us not forget all the bricks that were piled on before the camel broke down. As I have said before there is a lot more wrong with wrestling in the state of Indiana than is seen here. It is just under the rug. To Eastern HS all your fans,coaches and especially the KIDS. Hold your head high and march on. Respectfully Oscar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randalllynch Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Some of the comments concerning efforts to retain team state are disheartening. For there to be no definitive decision on a proposal to save it at this point is not a positive factor. This could easily be considered a lack of support for retention of the team state tournament by the coaches association leadership or the rank and file as a whole. I am a change managment consultant and I would recommend having a proposal ready and endorsed by the coaches (all) by the team state finals (requesting a meeting at the finals is a good idea and would definately clear the air as to where the IHSAA is on this). Also, based on recent incidents, there will need to be changes to the tournament in the recommendation, not just a marketing effort, or we give the IHSAA the fodder to say any increase in attendance is only blip on the radar for this year, and as trends have already shown, the attendance will revert back to its downward spiral. In other words marketing is not a measurable long term change, and short term stop gap measures only save programs that management wants to find a way to keep, that does not appear to be the environment the team state tournament is in. These are just some recommendations, I love the sport, I am proud to be involved with it as a coach, parent, and official. But mostly it makes me very happy to see that my son is getting the same positive life changing perspectives that helped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 You see that going to team state as a small 2A school you have no chance at winning a team state title. Team state Is a JOKE TO THE SMALL SCHOOLS Ummm...Mater Dei is a 2A school...and they seem to take Team State pretty serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Evansville Mater Dei IS AN ELITE SCHOOL. They are down by the border and we have suspesion that they possible recruit but we won't go there. Please don't "go there." EMD does not recruit. Period. The feeder league program is great and people who went to school their send their kids there. They are not an ELITE SCHOOL...unless having a harder grading scale, with a tougher curriculum, and less resources than the public schools makes you elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Please don't "go there." EMD does not recruit. Period. The feeder league program is great and people who went to school their send their kids there. They are not an ELITE SCHOOL...unless having a harder grading scale, with a tougher curriculum, and less resources than the public schools makes you elite. Mater Dei must recruit or they would not have any students. They are selling a product and therefore must market it so because they do not receive state funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Mater Dei must recruit or they would not have any students. They are selling a product and therefore must market it so because they do not receive state funding. They have a series of feeder schools that kids feed directly into MD...this is the same for the public schools in this area...each has a set of schools that feeds directly into them. Marketing and Recruiting are two very different things. I understand your tongue in cheek response...but the "recruiting" that is being referred to on this board is not about marketing, it's about trying to put a black mark on a school full of history and tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachBumgardner Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 First of all I would like to congratulate Coach Jarrett for coaching his team to a sectional championship this year. When he took over for the Eastern program only a couple of years ago they were having trouble even competing, and now they are sectional champions. I believe everyone is forgetting just how good of a coach Bob Jarrett really is, even dating back to his days at Western when they were one of the better teams in the state year in and year out. He has a track record of being a successful coach, and a man of integrity. The man has never had any kind of controversy around his programs. Not only has he been a successful coach, but he has also never been scared of competition. He has never ducked his athletes away from wrestling tougher competition. If he has pulled his team out of the team regionals, then there is a legitimate reason. If it is true that his wrestlers are ill with staph, wouldn?t it actually be best for the wrestlers from the other teams if they do not come into contact with those infected? Has anyone stopped to think that it might actually in fact be best for everyone involved if they do not compete? Granted, this could be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to the team dual tournament. Fact is, it was going away regardless of this incident. If we as members of the IHSWCA are intelligent in this situation, we will accept the fact that the dual tournament format is going away. We as an organization would be smart to try and use this to our advantage, and use this as a bargaining tool in an effort to try and gain full wrestle-backs at semi-state. Something that everyone in our wrestling community agrees is in the best interest of our sport. The reason that the team tournament is in jeopardy of being eliminated is because the attendance at these events has been so poor that they cannot be sustained any longer. If we as a wrestling community truly cared about the team state tournament, would we have low attendance as the main reason for its demise? Or would we have done a better job of promoting these events? Being as such we are not in Bob Jarrett?s position, we cannot make judgments based on partial information. The man has been a very highly respected coach for many years, and always handled his programs with class. Trust that the man is doing the right thing for all parties included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munges Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 First of all I would like to congratulate Coach Jarrett for coaching his team to a sectional championship this year. When he took over for the Eastern program only a couple of years ago they were having trouble even competing, and now they are sectional champions. I believe everyone is forgetting just how good of a coach Bob Jarrett really is, even dating back to his days at Western when they were one of the better teams in the state year in and year out. He has a track record of being a successful coach, and a man of integrity. The man has never had any kind of controversy around his programs. Not only has he been a successful coach, but he has also never been scared of competition. He has never ducked his athletes away from wrestling tougher competition. If he has pulled his team out of the team regionals, then there is a legitimate reason. If it is true that his wrestlers are ill with staph, wouldn?t it actually be best for the wrestlers from the other teams if they do not come into contact with those infected? Has anyone stopped to think that it might actually in fact be best for everyone involved if they do not compete? Granted, this could be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to the team dual tournament. Fact is, it was going away regardless of this incident. If we as members of the IHSWCA are intelligent in this situation, we will accept the fact that the dual tournament format is going away. We as an organization would be smart to try and use this to our advantage, and use this as a bargaining tool in an effort to try and gain full wrestle-backs at semi-state. Something that everyone in our wrestling community agrees is in the best interest of our sport. The reason that the team tournament is in jeopardy of being eliminated is because the attendance at these events has been so poor that they cannot be sustained any longer. If we as a wrestling community truly cared about the team state tournament, would we have low attendance as the main reason for its demise? Or would we have done a better job of promoting these events? Being as such we are not in Bob Jarrett?s position, we cannot make judgments based on partial information. The man has been a very highly respected coach for many years, and always handled his programs with class. Trust that the man is doing the right thing for all parties included. Coach I gave you a wahoo for this post. I do not think that anyone on here is saying that a sick or injured wrestler should wrestle. I know my personal view point is, even if it is only 7 wrestlers that can wrestle, you show up and let those 7 wrestlers wrestle their hearts out. Bluffton's wrestling squad wrestled duals all year long with only 5 wrestlers and they had to see that team score every single match. I think you wrestle with who you have and if that is 7 forfeits show up and wrestle the other 7 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 They have a series of feeder schools that kids feed directly into MD...this is the same for the public schools in this area...each has a set of schools that feeds directly into them. Marketing and Recruiting are two very different things. I understand your tongue in cheek response...but the "recruiting" that is being referred to on this board is not about marketing, it's about trying to put a black mark on a school full of history and tradition. Marketing is recruiting. The purpose of marketing is to recruit clients and customers. Students at MD are customers for their education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grappleapple Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Coach Baumgartner, if I knew how, I'd be dishing you out some cool points for your last post. I totally agree with you in all regards. I don't understand why coaches are crying over team state. I talk to coaches around the state and the general consensus with everyone is that the process is extremely flawed. It's not a secret that team state was probably already six feet underground and having dirt shoveled on it. If something as simple as one school pulling out can throw the entire state tournament off the edge, than it was already teetering anyway. Everyone wants to see a new format. I don't think a single coach likes a mid-week dual coinciding with the weekend individual tournaments. How about work on a proposal to make team state and individual state work. Put team state a week after the individual state tournament. I don't care whether you class it or not. But why not make it an all-day event. The more teams that are there, the bigger the crowd. The bigger the crowd, the more money coming in. Also, how sweet would it be to have 16 of the so-called best teams in Indiana at one venue, on one day, all vying for one crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOGILLIS Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I would like to start this off by first responding to a couple ofpost made. I would hope that the Eastern wrestlers are not looked down upon because of this whole situation. I feel that the emotions displayed on these post have not been to attack the Eastern wrestlers. Rather these post have been made, because we love this underappreciated sport which often gets overshadowed. I also believe that people are just wanting to get to the bottom of this situation, even though a lot of the discussion has vered off onto reformatting Team State. I know I have stated this before, to all of you saying we don?t know the all of the circumstances involved. Yes you are correct I will give you that, why somebody hasn?t enlightened all of us is beyond me. The short and skinny (if there is such a thing)from what I gathered from this situation, Eastern wins their Sectional on Jan 29th, on Jan 31st a post is made. The basic details of the post are as such Eastern?s coach states that his team will not be participating in the Team Regional due to Illness and Injury. Throughout the post the subject of ?Staph Infection? comes about, as well as some stating we don?t care about the well being of the wrestlers. Some info I gathered from Mr. Cox?s response was that atleast 9 wrestlers would be advancing to Individual Regionals, and at least 11 wrestlers participated in the Oakhill Sectional. Sometime between Saturday evening an Monday morning 11 wrestlers (at least) went down to 7. Comments then are made well Eastern only has 7 wrestlers the best they could do is Tie. (There are no ties in Indiana High School Wrestling, even though the score may show 42-42 there is a winner). With this being said yes small chance of 7 wrestlers getting 7 pins in a team regional. However there is a chance even it?s a less than 1% that?s for the wrestling gods to decide not you, not me, not the moderator, not a coach, nobody. You may have your arguments against this, to me these are inadequate. Next topic, post about Team State being over after this year. As far as I know this is Feburary 2011 not Feburary of 2012. I am not saying that this is not an issue that needs to be dealt with, I am simply saying lets focus on what we have in front us now. In some of the post there seemed to be a hint of this issue possibly being a tactic to manipulate the IHSAA to change the format of the Team State tournament. I would hope that this was not the case, I am not going to make assumptions or jump to conclusions on this one. Just understand if this was done to intentionally slap this great sport in the face then shame on that person or people. We must play by the rules and abide by the laws no matter how much we may or may not agree with them. Lastly the post made on professionalism, I could not agree more. I find it sad if Easterns AD truly was not aware of this whole situation. Also that if the team only legitamately on had 6 wrestlers than there would be an ethical way to ask for a replacement team. I have a feeling that more post will follow about how I don?t know the truth of the situition, if you do then please provide us with it. Stating fact and figures of success does not nullfy this type of behavior. I am glad that Eastern is now going to participate in the team regional and I really do wish them the best of luck. It is unfortunate that these young men have been pulled into a situation like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headlock83 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Put team state a week after the individual state tournament. I don't care whether you class it or not. But why not make it an all-day event. The more teams that are there, the bigger the crowd. The bigger the crowd, the more money coming in. Also, how sweet would it be to have 16 of the so-called best teams in Indiana at one venue, on one day, all vying for one crown. This is probably the best solution I have heard yet. Has this already been discussed? It sounds like a fantastic idea. And for the record, it seems to me like attendance at these events has been pretty good. If it pays for itself what is the IHSAA's complaint. Sure it is not going to bring in the money that the individual tournament brings in, but I didn't realize high school sports was about making money for the IHSAA. I thought high school sports were a way to help kids build character and provide them with worthwhile and constructive extracurricular activities. Too bad it always boils down to the almighty dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titan1 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 coach bumgardner, in years prior to coach jarrett, every one seems to forget that eastern had won 3 consective sectional titles, and state qualifiers for 6 years. that hardly sounds like a program struggling to compete! It is true that they had a wrestler with staph and went ahead and wrestled at the oak hill sectionals and went on to become a sectional champion! S0 much for not exposing other wrestlers. If i was Jackson Bratcher or Kris Workman and i got staph and couldnt wrestle during regionals or semi state or let alone state finals i would be very upset! so much for respecting the welfare of the other wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If team state goes away, is there any point of wrestling duals or superduals? Shouldn't schools just enter tournaments every weekend since that is what the postseason is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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