AJ Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think this type of philosophy gets you started down the same path that gets people to throw matches at regional after they've learned the semi-state draw. Or having someone take a dive after an illegal move when they are capable of continuing. Sometimes the integrity of the sport has to be put first. you are trying to combine two different scenarious to fit one general logic... and you can say that a team that is in shambles due to illness and injuries should compete on a stage where they will then get ridiculed for only having 7 wrestlers.. and Bobby Cox will say that it is a mockery that a team with 7 wrestlers competed in a team regional.. Eastern is in a no win situation... To say they are not acting iwth integrity is absurd just because many do not agree with what they are doing. I think those who disagree with Eastern because of their own selfishness are the ones acting without integrity and are closer to the original example of a slippery slope that you suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Bobby Cox's argument about Team State having run it's course is incorrect. What Eastern's dropping out of Team Regional shows more than anything else is that we need Sectional realignment. Their Sectional is obviously too weak if a team with only 7 healthy wrestlers can win it. Team state was poorly conceived to begin with and destined as an economic if not competitive failure. As formatted, it has run it's course. Your proof is that there won't be a team state next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeum1970 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Bobby Cox's argument about Team State having run it's course is incorrect. What Eastern's dropping out of Team Regional shows more than anything else is that we need Sectional realignment. Their Sectional is obviously too weak if a team with only 7 healthy wrestlers can win it. Eastern only forfeited 2 weight classes at sectionals and scored points in 11 weight classes with 4 champions and 2 runners up. Now This might be as ignorant as your statement but I think a team doing that would win almost any sectional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think we need to be honest though. There has been numerous examples of teams doing things that have been frowned on when it comes to the team series. We have witnessed teams do things like forfeit the last 4 matches because the dual was over, or hold people out of dual so their kid did not wrestle the top individual competitor on wed and sat. Here we are and some are saying send the jv, but I remember Peru getting destroyed on the board for doing that. The team series has been treated poorly for a long time, and Eastern is somehow now doing something so much worse than all those others schools did???? I just dont get it. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Eastern only forfeited 2 weight classes at sectionals and scored points in 11 weight classes with 4 champions and 2 runners up. Now This might be as ignorant as your statement but I think a team doing that would win almost any sectional. The fact that they had 4 champs and two runners up says nothing about the strength of the Sectional. You can disagree all that you want, but I will guarantee there are tons of schools finishing second or 3rd in their own Sectionals that would win this one. Probably some teams that finish even lower in their own Sectionals. You may not understand this, but not all Sectionals are created equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the situation Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I mean the year Peru sent their jv to Belmont they got straight clowned. People are looking at this situation from an ignorant standpoint simply because they want to see the team tourney go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dadday Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 It is a shame when the IHSAA is worried that they might only break even or loose a buck on team state. I understand they can't loose money on this tourney but from what i have paid to watch this and by the crowed i have seen there is no flippen way they are loosing money. as long as you are not loosing money then you are making a profit. i hate it that they are so greedy and are only wanting to make more and more. i am sure the fees for the school and refs are well covered by the gate.and most of if not all the wrestlers are not getting paid, so how is it not making a profit for them? unless some one has their hand in the jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeum1970 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The fact that they had 4 champs and two runners up says nothing about the strength of the Sectional. You can disagree all that you want, but I will guarantee there are tons of schools finishing second or 3rd in their own Sectionals that would win this one. Probably some teams that finish even lower in their own Sectionals. You may not understand this, but not all Sectionals are created equal. I agree with you there, I was disputing the point that they only won it with 7 wrestlers. But any team in any sectional scores points the way they did will win their perspective sectional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC/Western Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Bobby Cox's argument about Team State having run it's course is incorrect. What Eastern's dropping out of Team Regional shows more than anything else is that we need Sectional realignment. Their Sectional is obviously too weak if a team with only 7 healthy wrestlers can win it. They didn't have just 7 wrestlers compete. If anything, it shows that they were beaten up on saturday. without seeing the kids wrestle, don't judge our sectional. we are a younger sectional with talent constantly coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the situation Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 It is a shame when the IHSAA is worried that they might only break even or loose a buck on team state. I understand they can't loose money on this tourney but from what i have paid to watch this and by the crowed i have seen there is no flippen way they are loosing money. as long as you are not loosing money then you are making a profit. i hate it that they are so greedy and are only wanting to make more and more. i am sure the fees for the school and refs are well covered by the gate.and most of if not all the wrestlers are not getting paid, so how is it not making a profit for them? unless some one has their hand in the jar. Good call there. I'm not sure here so i don't want to jump to conclusions. But I find it hard to believe that they would be losing money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magic man Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 i think AJ and others are missing the point. eastern had 12 kids wrestle at sat. sectionals and won. they do not have a bunch of illness or injuries on this team!! they have only had 14 kids on there roster all year. there numbers are down but there pride and spirit is not .this was strickly a coaches decision for whatever reason. i dont think they considered at all the affect it would have on the team state series or how others would look at it. not surprising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCards Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 i think AJ and others are missing the point. eastern had 12 kids wrestle at sat. sectionals and won. they do not have a bunch of illness or injuries on this team!! they have only had 14 kids on there roster all year. there numbers are down but there pride and spirit is not .this was strickly a coaches decision for whatever reason. i dont think they considered at all the affect it would have on the team state series or how others would look at it. not surprising! Having 12 kids wrestle on Saturday does not mean that there is not a bunch of illness or injury on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think you must have misread the 2 posts from the Huntington coach because at no point does he pass judgment on the team, coach or program at Eastern. It is quite apparent that his concern is the possible demise of the team state tournament. The first post has been changed so I cannot refer to anything that was there. If I miss read the post and the Huntington coach did not pass judgement, I regret stating that. Again the first post does not contain all that was in the text to begin with, it has been edited so I have no reference. I am still a bit undecided about the whole situation but I do know a coach that is at a small school and has struggled with not having a full lineup. The kids do not feel any better about outwrestling a squad on the mat but turn and lose to them at the end of the dual do to having to forfeit 3-4 weight classes. I do feel that teams that are strong tend to focus on the team aspect and teams that have little to no chance will wrestle backups or forfeit once the dual is out of reach. This will not change as long as we are running the team and individuals at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdrodd1 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Just my opinion and it may not be very popular but I can guarantee you there are many coaches that would give their left or right nut maybe both to get their team into team regional for their school and wrestling program. I can think of a few here in central Indiana like the up and coming Indianapolis Tech. Here is a coach that came to an inner city school that has enough of their own problems and is building a program that is actually taking kids off of the rough streets and turning them into something that they would have never thought that they could be and turning them into winners....I can promise you that no matter what, they wouldn't have turned down that chance to represent their school.....Now out here where I live in Hendricks County, a couple of years ago there was some shifting in the team regionals and Perry got put into our team regional. So what!!!! You have a growing county here with Brownsburg, Avon (5A) schools Plainfield (4A) and then little ole schools like Danville, Cascade, Tri-West......This year, Danville came close to knocking off Avon for the sectional title.......I can promise you that Coach Pug of Danville would have never done this. None of these coaches out here would have done this even though they knew that they had do go up against the mighty Perry Meridian team or Bloomington South team.... or Franklin team....They would have taken their team there and wrestled and the outcome would have been something to grow on and in my opinion, that is what makes a good coach a great coach.....You don't need to win 500 dual meets to be a great coach...... I don't know why Eastern has done what they have done other than what I have read on here so I don't know all of the facts....I just know that this wouldn't have happened around here....Ask the coach from Gary Wallace if he would have kept his kids from going to team regionals......Those kids are wrestling with donated shoes..... Keep Team State Alive.....It is good for the kids.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 you are trying to combine two different scenarious to fit one general logic... and you can say that a team that is in shambles due to illness and injuries should compete on a stage where they will then get ridiculed for only having 7 wrestlers.. and Bobby Cox will say that it is a mockery that a team with 7 wrestlers competed in a team regional.. Eastern is in a no win situation... To say they are not acting iwth integrity is absurd just because many do not agree with what they are doing. I think those who disagree with Eastern because of their own selfishness are the ones acting without integrity and are closer to the original example of a slippery slope that you suggested. I think my scenarios definitely fall within the philosophy you stated - Eastern needs to do what's best for Eastern. The wrestler who has learned about an unfavorable draw for semi-state needs to do what's best for him and throw his regional match to get a better matchup. The wrestler whose opponent has performed an illegal move needs to do what's best for him and not continue the match in order to advance. Eastern needs to do what's best for Eastern and not even show up at team regional. I understand it's a slippery slope, but where do you draw the line that makes what Eastern wants to do ok and the scenarios I mentioned not ok when the standard is X needs to do what's best for X? As far as I'm aware, there are no rules against any of them. At what point do we consider what impact these decisions will have on the other people involved and the sport as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 a couple of things... 1. Why do a couple of teams with coaches that have no ethics get to push team state over the cliff? 2. as someone else said --eastern needs to cowboy up...its two days until team regional still, how do they know they won't be healthy enough to wrestle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 What would be interesting is how this coach voted in the latest team state survey the IHSWCA has put together?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameon5678 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Never in my life have i heard acts of such cowardice amongst a group of coaches. I mean wrestling JV teams is despicable enough and is sending the message that says "well if we can't win why wrestle at all?" But this, goes beyond anything unheard of. Heck, it tells the kids that it is ok to give up against an opponent who is of superior quality. If i were Cox my reply would have been such... "Well if you only have 7 healthy wrestlers, please indicate to your individual regional which 2 wrestlers are unable to wrestle and allow the alternates to take their place." I completely agree with having to alternates take the 2 "sick" wrestlers place. Maybe take them all out we don't want to get everyone "sick" because they show up!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'( :'( :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMAWRESTLER Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I heard that Eastern is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 AGAIN a guy wearin sweatpants doesnt seem to be that big of a deal anymore does it? Not as big of a deal, but still part of the problem. You want to be treated like a "prime time" sport you'd best present yourself as such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I heard that Eastern is in. Were did you hear this at 2:33:49 AM today??? Bobby Cox up worrying about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaner2 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I really don't think it matters at this point if Eastern is in or not(For Future Team State). It great for the kids, but in all reality, the shot has been fired that put Bobby Cox reeling over the edge about the future of Team State. It's very unfortunate, but you cant take back words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I really don't think it matters at this point if Eastern is in or not(For Future Team State). It great for the kids, but in all reality, the shot has been fired that put Bobby Cox reeling over the edge about the future of Team State. It's very unfortunate, but you cant take back words. Agreed ! So lets put this lame horse down and try to find a way to replace it with something good for the sport. PS: Love the cartoon :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaner2 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 PS: Love the cartoon :) That my Friend is "Bill The Cat" from the early 90's Comic Strip, Outland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 That my Friend is "Bill The Cat" from the early 90's Comic Strip, Outland Bill the Cat first came to fame in the comic strip Bloom County. Funny stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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