mtv2112 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 No one is questioning the kid's ethics. And the IHSAA surely does see an issue with transferring for athletic reasons. Whether directly or indirectly, ethics have been under fire in this thread. The IHSAA is not a body that has any moral or ethical authority. I don't think they have any real legal authority either. They are basically the head of the clubhouse and make/enforce the rules for the clubhouse. Just because they may not like an action does not make that action unethical. When it comes to wrestling, I don't believe that the transferring of kids to build "super" teams is rampant and I don't believe it ever will become rampant. I think exceedingly rare is where we are at today and where we will be at in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Did the Florida coach call the other kid? The Dustin Kief situation was different in that his whole family moved to Florida due to his father accepting a new job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdwn2 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The wrestler who transferred to Yorktown had finished his suspension and was eligible to wrestle. The Lowell transfer had was not because his supension was longer. Again..the one who transferred to Yorktown had already missed half of his soccer season for the same violation. Lets face it folks if every student who drank over the summer was suspended I know we would have a lot fewer wrestlers. Some of them got caught and they have been punished. Lets hope others learn from this, I know my kids have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The IHSAA is not a body that has any moral or ethical authority. I don't think they have any real legal authority either. They are basically the head of the clubhouse and make/enforce the rules for the clubhouse. Just because they may not like an action does not make that action unethical. I think the IHSAA does have responsibility for maintaining ethics. One of the purposes of the IHSAA is to: "Establishes standards for eligibility, competition and sportsmanship while providing protection against exploitation of schools or students." Ethics certainly comes into play in doing this. Now whether you think they have always done a good job of this is open to interpretation, but it is clearly part of their mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Say what you want about transferring dude, at least its an ethos!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I'm not even asking for proof. What is the basis of any of the suspicions lodged against the YT coaches. Mny of you sound like a bunch of Mean Girls. You know "I heard she did this, and I heard she did that." etc ad infinitum The opening posts makes numerous claims, not just the 140 recent transfer. The original post pointed out multiple questionable things in the posters opinion. It seems like the poster had a basis for his suspicions. He may be wrong, but if he has a basis as you say, then he put them forward and allow others to discuss. I would like for the poster to follow up and respond to people questioning what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoISU Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 People whine about the kid that lost the spot, and his Mom comes on and says basically that he got beat fair and square. I believe EVERYTHING I read online... I could easily make a name called YorktownWrestlingMom and make posts claiming he is my kid too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoISU Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 you shouldn't believe everything you read online. My point proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Here is what you can beleive... the kid is in, he is seeded, he will improve Yorktowns chance to advance to team state. Thank you Ytown mom, if it is true that you and your son still support the team and want them to succeed. Nice work, nice work!!! Lets hope the first round of team regionals starts at 145, so he can win it for them in the last match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I believe with what happened with these 3 they should of been out atleast for this season. Yorktown is going to do whatever it takes to be better the Delainy Way! hat sucks for the kid thats been wrestling that weight all season Did that boy get to wrestle off for the spot? Please crawl back under the rock from whence you came! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Mine too. Mine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I believe EVERYTHING I read online... I could easily make a name called YorktownWrestlingMom and make posts claiming he is my kid too. I don't know if ytown-mom is the old 140lbers mom or not but its not like she just registered that name to reply to this thread. ytown-mom registered that name on March 02, 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dadday Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I am not a mom but as a coach and a dad i am sure they real yorktown mom and old 140lbs wrestler are not going to be in the stands cheering. I have not coached a kid who would bust their hump all year the gladly hand it over. that's jst my thoughts. i could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I am not a mom but as a coach and a dad i am sure they real yorktown mom and old 140lbs wrestler are not going to be in the stands cheering. I have not coached a kid who would bust their hump all year the gladly hand it over. that's jst my thoughts. i could be wrong. When I taught there the thing I was most impressed with is how little emphasis there is on the individual and how much like an extended family and support for the team there is. That extends to all sports and academic competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlaw1981 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I am not a mom but as a coach and a dad i am sure they real yorktown mom and old 140lbs wrestler are not going to be in the stands cheering. I have not coached a kid who would bust their hump all year the gladly hand it over. that's jst my thoughts. i could be wrong. Why wouldn't you support your team if you truly love your teammates. Wrestling is a sport that is man v man, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. If you are a true teammate and you get beat out for the spot by the better wrestler you should still be out there cheering on your team. He should also be in the room praticing with his team, you never know he might be needed somewhere down the line. If you were to take your ball and go home I might question how good of a teammate you truly are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 From January 21, 2010 IHSAA board meeting list of penalties: Yorktown High School ? (Wrestler participated in six junior varsity matches without transfer being approved.) Commissioner Ress reported the following action as a result of a violation of Rule 19-3. 1. The Yorktown High School wrestling program is issued a warning. 2. It is absolutely mandatory that the ?IHSAA Athletic Transfer Report? be submitted and acted upon by the Association prior to a student athlete being allowed to participate in a contest at their new school. 3. The student athlete involved in this violation shall be suspended and declared ineligible for further competition until his transfer is approved by the IHSAA. 4. In accordance with Rule 3-9 of the IHSAA By-Laws, the schools which this ineligible athlete competed against shall be notified of this violation. Additionally, the meet scores shall be recalculated after forfeiting the ineligible athlete?s matches. So apparently what Yorktown wrestling learned from this is what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlaw1981 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Apparently they learned that a transfer needs to be approved, which according to numerous posts this has now been approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think the IHSAA does have responsibility for maintaining ethics. One of the purposes of the IHSAA is to: "Establishes standards for eligibility, competition and sportsmanship while providing protection against exploitation of schools or students." Ethics certainly comes into play in doing this. Now whether you think they have always done a good job of this is open to interpretation, but it is clearly part of their mission. Well I can see your point, but let me elaborate a little bit more. A parent or wrestler can make a decision, in my opinion, to transfer for any reason they choose and it is not an ethical problem even if the IHSAA has rules to prevent some of that from happening. I think these rules are really more to enforce institutional ethics (i.e. recruiting). In fact, I would consider it unethical for the IHSAA to prevent a kid from transferring if the kid or parents thought it was in the kids best interest. It seems the IHSAA tried this some years back and lost in court. I don't really recall the particulars, but is was discussed in depth on this board at one time. I do agree that the IHSAA has a responsibility to run their organization in an ethical manner and to encourage their member schools, coaches, and athletes to do the same. I don't mean to contradict myself here, but basically I believe that a person is responsible for making decisions for themselves or their families and those decisions do not have to be directed or influenced by an organization like the IHSAA. A moral authority is an entity for which a person can get guidance or philosophy on how they live their life. There are many higher moral/ethical authorities than the IHSAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munges Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 So what you are saying is Yorktown is out here recruiting JV wrsestlers? Seriously? No really. JV wrestling recruits? I do not know the situation this is refering to, but does this mean the wrestler was going to always be a J.V. wrestler or was wrestling J.V. until transfer was approved? Not trying to accuse just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dadday Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Brian103 nicely said. i agree 100% with you. I hate it for the kids. life isn't fair, do we nee to screw them in high school? no that will happen enough later in life. lets make all schools play by the same rules. if the ihsaa isn't doing anything about it then shame on them. they get paid a nice salary to police rule violations i would like to see what they have to say about it, and that be the final word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveReese Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well, I am doing what I thought I would never do. Posting on a chat board. I am an Indianamat junky. I read it every day and find it very informative and, in situations like this, very frustrating. I have watched this topic with great interest because I am very close friends with the Vanhorn's and very involved in the Franklin wrestling program. I love the Vanhorn's and I love Franklin wrestling. I thought I might offer a perspective from someone who knows the facts as well as anyone outside of the family. I don't claim to know everything and I also don't claim to agree with all of the decisions made by the Vanhorn's. Chuck and I have discussed this and he knows how I feel BUT they are my friends and always will be. What I would like to let all of you who hide behind screen names and take shots is that you are picking on very nice people who, right or wrong, made what they think is the best decision for their family and their son. Wrestling is a very small part of the equation ACCEPT for the fact that they are a wrestling family (and have done more for wrestling in this state than most) and wanted Cole to be able to finish his senior year of wrestling. Some facts, so that no one needs to spend more time talking about "word on the street" or any of the other idiotic assumptions that are being made: Cole screwed up this summer. His parents know this, aren't claiming anything different and have dealt with it in the private manner that any of us would when dealing with a childs behavior issue The relationship between the Vanhorn's and the administration at the school is broken. Some think it is the fault of the school, some think it is the fault of the Van Horns, at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Acomplete lack of trust exists and again, that is between the two parties involved. The Vanhorn's love franklin wrestling more than anyone. Is Coach Hasseman happy to lose a state ranked senior who he had coached for his whole life? Of course not , but again, that is between he and the Vanhorn's and Bob knows that this has nothing to with him or the wrestling program. The suspension that Franklin gave to Cole was honored by Yorktown. In the drama that ensued after the original and secondary suspension, a review board chose to reduce the original punishment and the athletic director, understanding that the issue was far bigger than athletics, opted to release him from Franklin. The situation with Keith Knura and Cole was completely separate from the situation with Dusty Kief. Dusty's dad simply got a job out of state and Dusty chose to go ahead and move and finish his season there. He had a choice and made it. These are all facts. In the end, the Vanhorn's, who love their son like any of us do, decided to make the move. I am sure they spent many sleepless nights thinking about it and unless they are different than me, they probably haven't made a decision yet that they are 100% sure was the right one. They have been very negatively affected by all of this (which they will readily admit started when Cole screwed up). My issue is this, it is easy to come on here and hide behind a screen name and criticize anyone that you want. I can promise you that the Vanhorn's didn't, in a million years, think that they would be at Yorktown right now. This is not the perfect scenario that they, like all of us who are parents, had hoped for. It is easy to think that you could have done better but until you have walked in the shoes, don't even pretend that you know. And as long as we are all spreading our wisdom, I have told my kids that they shouldn't ever say anything that they aren't willing to take ownership of. For those of you who like to take anonymous shots at peple, you may want to think about it. As for the venom that is being directed at Yorktown, I am guessing that most of you are involved with a team that may have to face them and if that is the case, I wouldn't be happy about it either. The bottom line is that the rules have been followed. You heard from the mom of the kid who was knocked out of the line-up (if you believe that it was her and I do) and that doesn't seem to be an issue. Do I like that it is ok to do this? No, actually I don't, but the IHSAA is ok with it and I think in the past they have always been on the side of being overly sensitive about these situations. Wow, I was way too wordy......Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilt Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I know nothing about this particular situation, and I think it was mentioned previously in another thread, but situations with transfers discussions like this are soon to be a thing of the past. With a voucher program that is poised to become a reality in the state of Indiana, we could certainly soon see numerous athletic powerhouses develop from those who have the means to send their children elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlaw1981 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Brian103 nicely said. i agree 100% with you. I hate it for the kids. life isn't fair, do we nee to screw them in high school? no that will happen enough later in life. lets make all schools play by the same rules. if the ihsaa isn't doing anything about it then shame on them. they get paid a nice salary to police rule violations i would like to see what they have to say about it, and that be the final word. Really, have you actually read the message board regarding this situation. The transfer was signed off on by the wrestler's previous school and the IHSAA. The school is following the rules that were set forth for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Apparently they learned that a transfer needs to be approved, which according to numerous posts this has now been approved. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikev Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well, I am doing what I thought I would never do. Posting on a chat board. I am an Indianamat junky. I read it every day and find it very informative and, in situations like this, very frustrating. I have watched this topic with great interest because I am very close friends with the Vanhorn's and very involved in the Franklin wrestling program. I love the Vanhorn's and I love Franklin wrestling. I thought I might offer a perspective from someone who knows the facts as well as anyone outside of the family. I don't claim to know everything and I also don't claim to agree with all of the decisions made by the Vanhorn's. Chuck and I have discussed this and he knows how I feel BUT they are my friends and always will be. What I would like to let all of you who hide behind screen names and take shots is that you are picking on very nice people who, right or wrong, made what they think is the best decision for their family and their son. Wrestling is a very small part of the equation ACCEPT for the fact that they are a wrestling family (and have done more for wrestling in this state than most) and wanted Cole to be able to finish his senior year of wrestling. Some facts, so that no one needs to spend more time talking about "word on the street" or any of the other idiotic assumptions that are being made: Cole screwed up this summer. His parents know this, aren't claiming anything different and have dealt with it in the private manner that any of us would when dealing with a childs behavior issue The relationship between the Vanhorn's and the administration at the school is broken. Some think it is the fault of the school, some think it is the fault of the Van Horns, at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Acomplete lack of trust exists and again, that is between the two parties involved. The Vanhorn's love franklin wrestling more than anyone. Is Coach Hasseman happy to lose a state ranked senior who he had coached for his whole life? Of course not , but again, that is between he and the Vanhorn's and Bob knows that this has nothing to with him or the wrestling program. The suspension that Franklin gave to Cole was honored by Yorktown. In the drama that ensued after the original and secondary suspension, a review board chose to reduce the original punishment and the athletic director, understanding that the issue was far bigger than athletics, opted to release him from Franklin. The situation with Keith Knura and Cole was completely separate from the situation with Dusty Kief. Dusty's dad simply got a job out of state and Dusty chose to go ahead and move and finish his season there. He had a choice and made it. These are all facts. In the end, the Vanhorn's, who love their son like any of us do, decided to make the move. I am sure they spent many sleepless nights thinking about it and unless they are different than me, they probably haven't made a decision yet that they are 100% sure was the right one. They have been very negatively affected by all of this (which they will readily admit started when Cole screwed up). My issue is this, it is easy to come on here and hide behind a screen name and criticize anyone that you want. I can promise you that the Vanhorn's didn't, in a million years, think that they would be at Yorktown right now. This is not the perfect scenario that they, like all of us who are parents, had hoped for. It is easy to think that you could have done better but until you have walked in the shoes, don't even pretend that you know. And as long as we are all spreading our wisdom, I have told my kids that they shouldn't ever say anything that they aren't willing to take ownership of. For those of you who like to take anonymous shots at peple, you may want to think about it. As for the venom that is being directed at Yorktown, I am guessing that most of you are involved with a team that may have to face them and if that is the case, I wouldn't be happy about it either. The bottom line is that the rules have been followed. You heard from the mom of the kid who was knocked out of the line-up (if you believe that it was her and I do) and that doesn't seem to be an issue. Do I like that it is ok to do this? No, actually I don't, but the IHSAA is ok with it and I think in the past they have always been on the side of being overly sensitive about these situations. Wow, I was way too wordy......Sorry! With all of that said, I guess this really comes down to the Yorktown coach making a decision to push aside the kid that had wrestled for him all year to make room for someone else who was a better wrestler and added more to his teams chances. I think that was part of the original posters b!tch about what was going on. So is this what happened? If I were the parent of that kid I surely wouldn't be happy about it, unlike the supposed mother who added to this post. Where is the loyalty of the coach to his athletes? I guess I could understand it better if it were another kid from the team who had been there all year and finally won his challenge match, but to bring someone else in at the last minute, not to cool in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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