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This was just emailed to me....

 

From the Herald-Times.

Kirk Kennedy said he is trying to keep a level head, to look at the

big picture.

But that was a difficult proposition Wednesday, when the MCCSC board

and the MCEA teachers? union approved a plan to eliminate the stipends

paid for all extracurricular activities for at least the 2010-11

school year.

?At 7:30 this morning, it sure made me feel like the dumbest guy on

Earth for leaving the situation I had at Lowell,? said Kennedy,

South?s football coach hired on April 1.

Kennedy may not have been the only one. Area coaches contacted

Wednesday expressed confusion, outrage and disappointment over the

decision to render all coaches as unpaid volunteers.

?I don?t know,? said Scott Bless, North?s co-athletic director and

football coach. ?I can?t even process it all yet. . Just a real

shame.?

Said J.R. Holmes, South?s athletic director and boys? basketball

coach: ?Right now, everybody is just sort of shaking their heads. I

can?t believe we didn?t have any input into the situation.?

As administrators, Holmes and Bless are not part of the teacher?s

union and were not permitted to attend. Neither were lay coaches,

which both schools rely on, especially to fill assistant coaching

ranks and serve as head coaches in non-revenue sports.

?It would have been nice to present your side of the story,? Holmes

said. ?About how much impact coaches have on the kids.?

Kennedy left a 4A powerhouse he built in Lowell and agreed to a

contract that stipulated he would be paid $6,301 to serve as head

football coach.

Kennedy will still be paid the assistant AD salary (three coaches at

each school serve as assistant ADs; Bless shares North?s AD role with

girls? cross country coach Jennifer Hollars).

The salaries paid to MCCSC coaches were already low ? the worst among

32 schools surveyed by Center Grove in a January 2010 study. And MCCSC

agreed in February to cut 37 percent of its funding for assistant

coaches.

But the remaining salaries, as paltry as coaches privately said they

were when broken out by hour of service, still are income and let

coaches know there is some value to what they are doing.

?People?s opinion of that work is spoken loudly and clearly,? Kennedy said.

South boys? swimming coach Kyle Ruth said he relies on his salary from

South ($3,539 this season) and as a club coach at the Counsilman Swim

Center as income while he is in graduate school at Indiana University.

?It?s definitely going to be a factor in whether or not I continue

coaching,? Ruth said.

Bless said the department began kicking around possible short-term

solutions Wednesday. The problem is that any workable plan could be

too successful and lead to MCCSC eliminating the return of coaching

stipends.

?It?s just a very scary decision,? Bless said. ?No solutions we come

up with would be able to be a permanent thing.?

A long-term removal of pay could make it very difficult for North and

South to retain and replace capable coaches, perhaps even forcing a

move to a youth sports-model that asks parents to volunteer their

time.

?I guess they assume people are going to do it for free,? Holmes said.

Franklin Central recently instituted a pay-for-play model that is

exactly what it sounds like ? the families of athletes would be

required to essentially donate to the school system in order for their

son or daughter to be on the team.

That is a can of worms ? from parents withholding payments in order to

fire an unpopular coach to a sense of entitlement ? that Holmes said

he would rather not see happen.

?That?s just a hornet?s nest,? Holmes said. ?If they pay, they think

they can play.?

A similar plan would ask booster clubs to raise coaching salaries. The

IHSAA, sensing the possibility of this, recently passed legislation

requiring any funds from outside sources to go through the school

corporation first.

That would prevent a particularly fervent group of boosters from

paying the football staff and conveniently forgetting, say, the

gymnastics coach.

Right now, though, there are no solutions, either temporary or permanent.

?I don?t know what we?re going to do,? Holmes said.

Still, two assistant coaches who already saw their pay cut once said

this latest blow will not keep them off the sideline.

?For me, it was never about the money,? said Tyler Abel, a baseball

and football assistant at North. ?It was just something that helped.

It?s always been about the kids for me.?

Said South boys? basketball assistant Kyle Simpson: ?It is what it is.

And it?s not just the coaches. You?re talking Sounds of South. You?re

talking about Gwen (Upchurch) not getting paid for all her hard work ?

she puts in more time than some coaches do. It?s just a sad day.?

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I think similar idea's have at least been floated around at a few school corporations.  For mine (amoung other sports cuts) at one point it was suggested that they stop paying assistant coaches at the middle school & high school level and stop paying for anything associated with elementary sports completely.  They decided to keep the assitant coaching pay intact, but are still trying to hash out what to do about the elementary sports programs.

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That's what happens when you elect a liberal democrat. Raise taxes, give more entitlement, and have less to spend on useful things. We won't have paid coaches, or music programs, but rest assured, everyone who doesn't want to work will have free health care and plenty of food stamps.

Vote republican 2010.

 

~The Cat

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That's what happens when you elect a liberal democrat. Raise taxes, give more entitlement, and have less to spend on useful things. We won't have paid coaches, or music programs, but rest assured, everyone who doesn't want to work will have free health care and plenty of food stamps.

Vote republican 2010.

 

~The Cat

 

That is insane. Our governor has been anti-education ever since his buddy Dubbya was in office. Indiana is one of only three states in the country that has been labeled "hostile toward educators" by the national teachers union. Mitch has made it public he wants to disband teacher unions. Now he's got a "yes" man in Tony Bennett in the office of state superintendent, it's going to be like Palpatine and Vader trying to take over the galaxy. Don't insult people by laying the blame of our state education system in President Obama's lap.

 

Our state didn't even re-apply for the Race to the Top national education grant b/c Bennett was pissed at the state teachers' union.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I belive both Wildcat and TripleB are way off base! I hate to get political on a great Wrestling site, but I feel I must jump in.

If you have a problem with how our State Funding for schools is being handled, it lies with our State Legislators.

To assume all Republicans, our governor and former President are anti--school is ridiculus.  Just as it is to assume that Electing Obama is the root of this problem.

From the original post "But that was a difficult proposition Wednesday, when the MCCSC board

and the MCEA teachers? union approved a plan to eliminate the stipends

paid for all extracurricular activities for at least the 2010-11

school year, I didn't see Governor Daniels or Barack involved in this vote.

Here's a thought.  When our great Hoosier Lottery was implemented in the late 80's we were all told that most of the revenue from this would be donated and applied to our schools systems to make Indiana schools one of the strongest systems in the country.  Has that happened, I think not!  If anything our school systems in general have deteriorated over the last decades, with many schools having to make hard decisions on faculty cutbacks, consolidation, and school closings. 

At one time Unions were a necessity in this country to keep greedy Business owners from taking advantage of hard working americans.  My father worked 37 years in Local 150 Operating Engineers, and it served my father well.  But as time goes on, we might ask ourselves if our Unions are part of the problem.  Just review the vote above.  In fighting, power struggles, embezzlement and lobbying are all part of today's unions.  Sounds like our government?  Unions were here to protect it's members, is it really doing that anymore?

Here is my last thought why don't our state government try something a little different for school tax funding.

Let's tax $.10 to every gallon of milk, loaf of bread and dozen of eggs.  Apply this tax to our school system.

Now before all you go crazy and say, I have 5 kids and cannot afford that. My father worked in the steel mill for 37 years, and we had 7 kids.  We drank 7 gallons of milk a week, 3-4 dozen eggs and probably 10 loaves of bread.  I don't think the extra $2+ dollars a week would break our family. I would venture to say that 90% of our state population buys these essentials.  Tax all, no some!!!!    Let's all participate in our childrens future with what would call the Essentials School tax.  Call me crazy but it might work.

 

Panther out!

 

 

 

 

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Good points Panther, the state government, as a whole, should share the blame. I was just pointing out that it was unfair to dump it on the president's lap.

 

I would agree to a tax increase, but I fear many wouldn't. Clarksville Indiana recently had to RIF 21 of it's 90 educators b/c the public voted down a tax increase. Why are schools RIF'ing and closing schools? Could be the 300 million dollar cut in education by...........not our legislators...............our governor.

 

 

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20106010365

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This is a little like the health care issue.  Something needs to be done re revamping the education system across the country.  Legislators make tough decisions and people that aren't directly affected by those decisions cheer while those it does affect (in this case educators) groan.  It's the traditional "go ahead and make cuts but just don't make cuts that impact me." 

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those it does affect (in this case educators) groan.

 

I think "those that it does affect" is educators on the short term but the entire society of America in the long term.  Most people would agree if you dramatically cut back on the resources and components used in a process it kind to keep up the quality of product let a long actually improve on it.  To bad we have so many who only look at the short term or won't be around in the long term to worry about it.

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I think "those that it does affect" is educators on the short term but the entire society of America in the long term.  Most people would agree if you dramatically cut back on the resources and components used in a process it kind to keep up the quality of product let a long actually improve on it.  To bad we have so many who only look at the short term or won't be around in the long term to worry about it.

 

This isn't a new problem. When people have kids in school, they're all for raising taxes that support the schools.  Once they are empty nesters, they stop voting to approve tax increases.  This has been going on for decades.

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Although, none of us will ever agree on all points.

This is a good healthy discussion.

Here are some facts regarding Education spending, and cuts from our Governors office.  All of this can be verified on the Indiana.gov website.  This was a letter in response from a school teacher.

 

QUOTE:

"Over the past year and a half, as the national recession has deepened, Governor Daniels has taken numerous actions to reduce state spending, focusing largely on state agencies. Since July 2009, the governor has directed that agencies reduce spending by 20 percent, ordered the second straight annual pay freeze for state employees, reduced hiring, and implemented targeted Medicaid reductions. That is on top of $750 million in spending reductions he ordered in December 2008. All the while, K-12 education spending was not only maintained, but increased.

 

These difficult decisions have kept Indiana in strong fiscal position, while not impacting services to Hoosiers. Other states haven't been so fortunate. They are deep in debt, cutting programs such as health care services to the elderly and disabled and letting prisoners out early. More than 40 states have cut K-12 education; most of them by far more than the 2.7 percent reduction here in Indiana. In California, for example, the cut was 16 percent; in Alabama, it was 20 percent.

 

Governor Daniels said a K-12 funding reduction would be a last resort. Regrettably, the time has come when K-12 education, which now makes up half the entire state budget, could no longer be left totally untouched.

 

The $297 million reduction represents only 2.7 percent of the total $11 billion schools will spend this year. When 39 percent of that spending is consumed in administration, support services and other non-classroom purposes, it is clear there is room to absorb this small adjustment."

 

 

Knowing both sides makes for better discussion for all.

 

Panther out.

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I belive both Wildcat and TripleB are way off base! I hate to get political on a great Wrestling site, but I feel I must jump in.

If you have a problem with how our State Funding for schools is being handled, it lies with our State Legislators.

To assume all Republicans, our governor and former President are anti--school is ridiculus.  Just as it is to assume that Electing Obama is the root of this problem.

From the original post "But that was a difficult proposition Wednesday, when the MCCSC board

and the MCEA teachers? union approved a plan to eliminate the stipends

paid for all extracurricular activities for at least the 2010-11

school year, I didn't see Governor Daniels or Barack involved in this vote.

Here's a thought.  When our great Hoosier Lottery was implemented in the late 80's we were all told that most of the revenue from this would be donated and applied to our schools systems to make Indiana schools one of the strongest systems in the country.  Has that happened, I think not!  If anything our school systems in general have deteriorated over the last decades, with many schools having to make hard decisions on faculty cutbacks, consolidation, and school closings. 

At one time Unions were a necessity in this country to keep greedy Business owners from taking advantage of hard working americans.  My father worked 37 years in Local 150 Operating Engineers, and it served my father well.  But as time goes on, we might ask ourselves if our Unions are part of the problem.  Just review the vote above.  In fighting, power struggles, embezzlement and lobbying are all part of today's unions.  Sounds like our government?  Unions were here to protect it's members, is it really doing that anymore?

Here is my last thought why don't our state government try something a little different for school tax funding.

Let's tax $.10 to every gallon of milk, loaf of bread and dozen of eggs.  Apply this tax to our school system.

Now before all you go crazy and say, I have 5 kids and cannot afford that. My father worked in the steel mill for 37 years, and we had 7 kids.  We drank 7 gallons of milk a week, 3-4 dozen eggs and probably 10 loaves of bread.  I don't think the extra $2+ dollars a week would break our family. I would venture to say that 90% of our state population buys these essentials.  Tax all, no some!!!!    Let's all participate in our childrens future with what would call the Essentials School tax.  Call me crazy but it might work.

 

Panther out!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your Man Mitch is to blame.... If he didn't cut $300 million from teaching in our state, then they don't have to make that decision.

 

This is a little like the health care issue.  Something needs to be done re revamping the education system across the country.  Legislators make tough decisions and people that aren't directly affected by those decisions cheer while those it does affect (in this case educators) groan.  It's the traditional "go ahead and make cuts but just don't make cuts that impact me." 

 

Typical of someone who probably doesn't support a public education.  Look at how many teachers are now walking the streets who have little chance of getting a job again?  In example our very own Jamie Wingler.  15 years he gave to his school and his community.  Now he has been let go, who is going to hire him?  15 years experience?  Teaching is the only profession where the more experience you have the less chance you have of being hired.  Especially in the economy today.  Let's see, do I hire a teacher with 15 years experience and have to pay him $55,000 or a teacher with no experience and pay him $32,000.  What do you think the administrator is going to pick?

 

So many schools are operating with bare bones the way it is.  Get ready for a massive change in everyone's world because when they cut another $300 million in December, small schools will shut down, other schools will see class sizes skyrocket to 50 plus.  There will be no music, physical education, art, tech ed, family and consumer science classes. 

 

All of this points to two things.  1.  Your man mitch wants to go to private education strictly.  Not the basis of a solid public education that our country was founded on.  2.  The belief that everyone must go to college.  While I agree a majority of our country needs higher education, we need ditch diggers, we need janitors, we need mechanics, we need construction workers, and we need trash men.  Without the non-core classes in school, these students will not have the fundamental skills to do these jobs.  If something doesn't happen soon, we are going to be in bigger trouble than we are right now.  And I'm not talking about us as teachers, I'm talking about us as a state, and as a country.

 

 

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Governor Daniels (see when I'm not taking a shot I give the office the respect it deserves) has always advocated for consolidation of schoool corporations. This might not be a bad idea, I haven't done any research into it. However I do hope that he's not sabbotaging the funding in order to get his way.

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Your man mitch wants to go to private education strictly.  Not the basis of a solid public education that our country was founded on. 

 

Know your history.  This country wasn't founded on public education.  In fact, it wasn't until 1918 that all states had a requirement for kids to attend at least elementary school.  Churches were the primary educators when this country was founded.  As for your accusation that I'm not a public school supporter, my kids all attend public schools.  The biggest problem with public schools is the NEA and teachers union.  Sorry, but I really believe unions have done more to destroy our viability as a capitalist society than any other force.  Unions served a purpose back in the mid 19th century when employees were being taken advantage of during the industrial revolution (the move from an agrarian society to an industrial society).  However, after workers rights were instituted, the unions didn't want to lose their power base and graft, corruption and waste ensued and continues to this day.  Pretty similar situation took place with the auto industry.  I encourage you to study all the different organizations your "wonderful" teacher's union supports with your union dues.  I think you might be surprised at what you find.  My wife worked in public schools for many years and was only a union member because she had to be one.  

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Just some food for thought on the topic and a few quotes to support some claims.  I don't have time to fully chime in on the topic as I am still in school for this full week.  I will just say that I find both sides of the argument compelling in some fashion, but something has to be done to balance our budget.  I will be glad if our state comes out of this recession in better position than most.  We all know where California is headed.  Give me Midwestern values and work ethic any day.

 

"The human race has had long experience and a fine tradition in surviving adversity.  But we now face a task for which we have little experience, the task of surviving prosperity."  -Alan Gregg-

 

I believe we are starting to find out how hard it is to survive prosperity.  Our country is in the midst of some serious soul-searching.  We must decide in the next few years if the United States will continue as a free and independent country that will forge ahead doing what is right for itself, or submit to the pressures of others countries and sacrifice our identity so that we might be liked by the rest of the world's governments. (Note:  I did not say the world's population.)  Despite the fact that we are in such upheaval as a nation, we are still the envy of the world.  When something goes wrong, we are who they all look to (even though they will criticize our leadership later). 

 

2.  The belief that everyone must go to college.  While I agree a majority of our country needs higher education, we need ditch diggers, we need janitors, we need mechanics, we need construction workers, and we need trash men.  Without the non-core classes in school, these students will not have the fundamental skills to do these jobs.

 

"If everybody contemplates the infinite instead of fixing the drains, many of us will die of cholera."  -John Rich-

 

Let's see, do I hire a teacher with 15 years experience and have to pay him $55,000 or a teacher with no experience and pay him $32,000.  What do you think the administrator is going to pick?

"Good teachers are costly, but bad teachers cost more."  -Bob Talbert-

I know of at least a few coproations that go by this mantra and will hire the better teacher regardless of experience.  It is only a few

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Well as a coach effected by the RIF at his school I can tell you it is a two fold problem.  One the budget has been decreased by our state and that has effect across entire state and if your school system wasn't preparing for the coming cutbacks then people lost their jobs.  I know at scottsburg they are doing a 10% reduction across the board in all athletic programs but asst.s are still going to be paid.

 

 

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Governor Daniels (see when I'm not taking a shot I give the office the respect it deserves) has always advocated for consolidation of schoool corporations. This might not be a bad idea, I haven't done any research into it. However I do hope that he's not sabbotaging the funding in order to get his way.

 

Consolidation has been discussed in our county (Posey).  There are currently 3 different school corporations in our county: Mt. Vernon, North Posey, and New Harmony.  The following problems have arisen:

1.  Whose pay scale do you use?

2.  Do you build a new high school closer to the center of the county or do you pay to bus students quite a few miles from two corporations to a current building?

3.  To handle the influx of new students to a current building there would probably need to be renovations in whatever building was chosen.

4.  When asked their opinion on consolidation, many people have said it's a good idea.  However, when you tell them that their school would be closed, the outcry was loud.  They DID NOT want their alma mater closed down; they wanted the rest of the county bussed to "their" school.  Small town pride gets in the way.

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Consolidation has been discussed in our county (Posey).  There are currently 3 different school corporations in our county: Mt. Vernon, North Posey, and New Harmony.  The following problems have arisen:

1.  Whose pay scale do you use?

2.  Do you build a new high school closer to the center of the county or do you pay to bus students quite a few miles from two corporations to a current building?

3.  To handle the influx of new students to a current building there would probably need to be renovations in whatever building was chosen.

4.  When asked their opinion on consolidation, many people have said it's a good idea.  However, when you tell them that their school would be closed, the outcry was loud.  They DID NOT want their alma mater closed down; they wanted the rest of the county bussed to "their" school.  Small town pride gets in the way.

 

Consolidation of school corporations does not have to mean consolidation of schools.  EVSC has North, Bosse, Central, Harrison, and Reitz.  Warrick County has Castle, Boonville, and Tecumseh.  Posey would have New Harmony, Mt. Vernon, and North Posey.  No schools have to close.  You just reduce the redunduncy in administration.  It will always be a tough sell in Posey County because, like Garth in Wayn'e World, the people of Posey County "fear change".  Now you are very correct in that pay scales would have to be adjusted and that is where it gets tricky.  Are the Mt. Vernon teachers overpaid or are the North Posey teachers underpaid?  No easy answers.

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Consolidation of school corporations does not have to mean consolidation of schools.  EVSC has North, Bosse, Central, Harrison, and Reitz.  Warrick County has Castle, Boonville, and Tecumseh.  Posey would have New Harmony, Mt. Vernon, and North Posey.  No schools have to close.  You just reduce the redunduncy in administration.  It will always be a tough sell in Posey County because, like Garth in Wayn'e World, the people of Posey County "fear change".  Now you are very correct in that pay scales would have to be adjusted and that is where it gets tricky.  Are the Mt. Vernon teachers overpaid or are the North Posey teachers underpaid?  No easy answers.

 

Most of the discussions I've heard have been involving closing New Harmony and possibly North Posey then developing a Posey Co. High School.  In addition, the only elimination in administration would be in the main office, going from 3 superintendants to one, 3 whatever elses they have to one, etc.  Each school would still need probably the same no. of administrators. 

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  • 5 weeks later...

Just an old country boy's  thought about this..........

 

First of all, I see these huge new schools being built around Indy and wonder where all the money is coming from....Heck, the weight room at Plainfield is as big or bigger than our high school gym....By the way, I went to  Mooresville in the 70's, very impressive but kind of wondering why?  TV's in a high school weight room?  I am not putting down Plainfield at all but was in awe when I walked in there last year for a dual meet for the first time....The pit that they had was perfect for a meet....  Who is paying for this?  We are of course and I don't mind because I love high school sports and it has a place for all of us.  I just wonder who thinks this crap up that we neeeeeeeed this type of new high school to keeeeeeep up with the other schools.....I just think that they should ask the people first to find out if they really need to spend this kind of money...Now Franklin Central kids parents need to pay for the kids to play sports???????  What a screwed up system.....Now you are asking for volunteer coachs?????

 

Me personally, I would rather that my children and grandchildren be taught and coached by a well paid teacher/coach that doesn't have to worry about how they are going to have to  provide a good upbringing  for their family/children or mine....My parents knew that I was in good hands when I was in school....God knows that I was in good hands.....and I think that he had a hand in those paddles....

 

I turn 50 next month and read this thread and it is sad.  You teachers and coaches are fighting with your hands tied behind your back....and it seems that it has all turned to politics.....We have our Unions, our rights and the good ole  ACLU and  whatever.....the bottom line is (in my opinion) that we are forgetting about the children......The kids.....I wouldn't expect any of you coaches to work for free...You shouldn't have to and anyone that expects you to work for free is very shallow.....

 

Somebody made this thread political and I am just saying that we as a nation and people have let our government take God, Country and Morals out of our schools and now we are having this conversation....

 

Bring them back and maybe our school system can come back around......

 

Let the teachers teach without fear and the coaches coach......

 

Bring the morals and standards back to the schools, bring back religion and repercussions for your actions to the schools and let the teachers and coaches teach and coach without worrying about being sued....

 

Just venting.....Love you coaches and teachers (don't know how you do it these days),  hate your unions and ACLU.....  I know that you could do it without them.......

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Just an old country boy's  thought about this..........

 

First of all, I see these huge new schools being built around Indy and wonder where all the money is coming from....Heck, the weight room at Plainfield is as big or bigger than our high school gym....By the way, I went to  Mooresville in the 70's, very impressive but kind of wondering why?  TV's in a high school weight room?  I am not putting down Plainfield at all but was in awe when I walked in there last year for a dual meet for the first time....The pit that they had was perfect for a meet....   Who is paying for this?  We are of course and I don't mind because I love high school sports and it has a place for all of us.  I just wonder who thinks this crap up that we neeeeeeeed this type of new high school to keeeeeeep up with the other schools.....I just think that they should ask the people first to find out if they really need to spend this kind of money...

 

 

+1 Rdrodd1, +1

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Just an old country boy's  thought about this..........

 

First of all, I see these huge new schools being built around Indy and wonder where all the money is coming from....Heck, the weight room at Plainfield is as big or bigger than our high school gym....By the way, I went to  Mooresville in the 70's, very impressive but kind of wondering why?  TV's in a high school weight room?  I am not putting down Plainfield at all but was in awe when I walked in there last year for a dual meet for the first time....The pit that they had was perfect for a meet....   Who is paying for this?  We are of course and I don't mind because I love high school sports and it has a place for all of us.  I just wonder who thinks this crap up that we neeeeeeeed this type of new high school to keeeeeeep up with the other schools.....I just think that they should ask the people first to find out if they really need to spend this kind of money...Now Franklin Central kids parents need to pay for the kids to play sports???????  What a screwed up system.....Now you are asking for volunteer coachs?????

s and standards back to the schools, bring back religion and repercussions for your actions to the schools and let the teachers and coaches teach and coach without worrying about being sued....

 

Just venting.....Love you coaches and teachers (don't know how you do it these days),  hate your unions and ACLU.....  I know that you could do it without them.......

 

 

Easy answer is that teacher funds and project funds come from two different pools of money.  If the schools organizes and saves the project funds correctly they can eventually pay for a large expansion like Plainfield did.  However, due to the state rules in place at the time the projects fund moeny wasn't allowed to be transfered over to other funds in the case of hard times (i.e. paying teacher, teachers aids).  However, due to the new issues we are seeing many are saying that the state needs to re-evaluate their funding rules to make it easier to move funds towards places of educational need (however allow the reverse toward general projects from education funds). 

 

Some of it is still the state wanting  control over every area of education.  While I agree they need to step in to regulate and control the big picuture.  But I also see that the local governments have a much better view on how to handle most cases that are unique to their area instead of having to follow a blanket decision by a state government in every situation.

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