Why do we put up wth the IHSAA

[pin2win1]

I mean seriously, i know this has nothng to do with wrestling directly, but the IHSAA is now asking the Indiana State Supreme court to over turn the rulling that allowed Jasmine Watson to play for South Bend Washington last year. Now some might say, that is what the IHSAA is supposed to do, and while i would agree that they should make competition fair. The girl graduated LAST YEAR... that is right, she is done and gone from South Bend and is now playing that awful sport at UMASS.

 

Great call IHSAA, you have the money to fight a legal battle a year after the whole ordeal is over, but not enough to rent a space for the Merrillville semi state to wrestle at. Last i heard the schools were having a hard time keeping even teachers because there is not enough money to go around, but this aspect of our educational system has enough money for Blake Ress to take his personal vendetta against a 19 year old girl. Way to go IHSAA, I guess going after a 19 year old girl is better putting money into our sports to make them better. WHAT A JOKE!

[Ahawkeye]

I mean seriously, i know this has nothng to do with wrestling directly, but the IHSAA is now asking the Indiana State Supreme court to over turn the rulling that allowed Jasmine Watson to play for South Bend Washington last year. Now some might say, that is what the IHSAA is supposed to do, and while i would agree that they should make competition fair. The girl graduated LAST YEAR... that is right, she is done and gone from South Bend and is now playing that awful sport at UMASS.

 

Great call IHSAA, you have the money to fight a legal battle a year after the whole ordeal is over, but not enough to rent a space for the Merrillville semi state to wrestle at. Last i heard the schools were having a hard time keeping even teachers because there is not enough money to go around, but this aspect of our educational system has enough money for Blake Ress to take his personal vendetta against a 19 year old girl. Way to go IHSAA, I guess going after a 19 year old girl is better putting money into our sports to make them better. WHAT A JOKE!

I agree 100% Good post!

[outsidersview]

I mean seriously, i know this has nothng to do with wrestling directly, but the IHSAA is now asking the Indiana State Supreme court to over turn the rulling that allowed Jasmine Watson to play for South Bend Washington last year. Now some might say, that is what the IHSAA is supposed to do, and while i would agree that they should make competition fair. The girl graduated LAST YEAR... that is right, she is done and gone from South Bend and is now playing that awful sport at UMASS.

 

Great call IHSAA, you have the money to fight a legal battle a year after the whole ordeal is over, but not enough to rent a space for the Merrillville semi state to wrestle at. Last i heard the schools were having a hard time keeping even teachers because there is not enough money to go around, but this aspect of our educational system has enough money for Blake Ress to take his personal vendetta against a 19 year old girl. Way to go IHSAA, I guess going after a 19 year old girl is better putting money into our sports to make them better. WHAT A JOKE!

wahooooooo

[Coach Hartman]

The IHSAA has specified they are not interested in Jasmine Watson but more interested in the process that made her eligible after they had ruled her ineligible.  They are pushing this case to try and regain some credibility.

I almost have to agree with you for completely opposite reasons - as too "why do we put up with the IHSAA" when they have no authority to declare anyone ineligible and not have it overturned in another venue.  They have become a powerless entity in high school sports. 

Do you think that if a coach disciplines a kid for bad behavior that the kid should then be allowed to transfer to another school next year?  If the IHSAA continues to be undermined by cases being overturned then this kind of thing will be happening.  A high school coaches job is to teach more than the sport they are coaching- to teach discipline, morality and positive behavior, this cannot be done if there is no set of rules governing High school athletics.

Three cases just in South Bend/Mishawaka have been overturned in the last 2 years-  Watson (Wash), Reinhohl (Mish), and Woods (Wash).  Does the IHSAA have any authority at all????

[fire77]

The problem is not that the IHSAA does not have the authority, it is that they  just do what the principle of the shool the student left wants. This is usually bias and out of anger against the student. IF they(IHSAA)  would examine the cases they may be right on some of them instead of wrong on most of them. That is why the cases get overturned. The only losers are the students whose parents can not afford to fight the kangaroo court system of the IHSAA and then go to a real court. If the state wants to save money get rid of the IHSAA. The principles could make these decisions through a committee, which would not need to be paid. They could even video conference to save travel. Business does it so it should not be too much to expect.  Everyone else in the country is tightening there belts so why not save a lot of money and eliminate the IHSAA? I can't think of a single case the IHSAA has won in court, does anyone think it is just bad luck or are they just on the wrong side of the issue?

[mtv2112]

The problem is not that the IHSAA does not have the authority, it is that they  just do what the principle of the shool the student left wants. This is usually bias and out of anger against the student. IF they(IHSAA)  would examine the cases they may be right on some of them instead of wrong on most of them. That is why the cases get overturned. The only losers are the students whose parents can not afford to fight the kangaroo court system of the IHSAA and then go to a real court. If the state wants to save money get rid of the IHSAA. The principles could make these decisions through a committee, which would not need to be paid. They could even video conference to save travel. Business does it so it should not be too much to expect.  Everyone else in the country is tightening there belts so why not save a lot of money and eliminate the IHSAA? I can't think of a single case the IHSAA has won in court, does anyone think it is just bad luck or are they just on the wrong side of the issue?

 

I have no meangingful information on any of these court cases.  I really don't care all that much about them, but I don't know if right or wrong has anything to do with these cases.  What you may find is that courts tend to rule for the side that can prove that their rights are/were violated or that their freedom to do what is best for their personal situation has been infringed upon.  I am sure a court strongly frowns upon an entity such as a school trying to penalize a child for changing schools to better their situation.  Right and wrong are subjective.  It may just be that portions of the by-laws and/or rules of the IHSAA are not in agreement with current judicial thinking regarding personal freedom.

 

No one likes to be told what to do.  That is essentially the job of the IHSAA.  Without them, how do you govern anything in sports?  There has to be a governing body.  99.9% of athletes probably have no problem with the IHSAA.  Anytime a conflict, a ruling, or some rule change comes down, then everyone wants to burn them at the stake.  At the end of the day, the IHSAA does much more good than harm, in spite of all the various problems.

[AJ]

They are pushing this case to try and regain some credibility.

 

hahahahaha.....................

 

that is hilarious

[pin2win1]

Three cases just in South Bend/Mishawaka have been overturned in the last 2 years-  Watson (Wash), Reinhohl (Mish), and Woods (Wash).  Does the IHSAA have any authority at all?

 

It should be noted that only two of these three cases went to court. The IHSAA review comittee or whatever they wish to call it, actually overturned the Reinhoel case, so that was an in house matter.

 

And btw, does not the school that the athlete transfers from have to sign off on the student so that they can play sports at their new school? I mean seriously, cant we let the principals and AD's at the student's old school decide why the student is leaving and then leave it at that? No reason to have court cases a year after the incident is over with when our school systems are hurting for money as it is.

[pin2win1]

No one likes to be told what to do.  That is essentially the job of the IHSAA.  Without them, how do you govern anything in sports?  There has to be a governing body.  99.9% of athletes probably have no problem with the IHSAA.  Anytime a conflict, a ruling, or some rule change comes down, then everyone wants to burn them at the stake.  At the end of the day, the IHSAA does much more good than harm, in spite of all the various problems.

 

MTV, i understand what you are saying. But I really have no personal stake in the issue. The one problem that would have bothered me ended up being over turned by an IHSAA review comittee. But I couldn't care less about SB Washington. That being said, the problem I have with the IHSAA is that there is no accountability, they ultimately answer to no one. This is why we end up with countless amounts of dollars being wasted on stupid court cases like this one, this is why we have issues when teams can't legally attend a regional due to snow emergency's. Fact is, I will take a government ran beauacracy over this any day. Either way it's our tax dollars being used, and either way there is going to be corruption, but I atleast think the government ran system through the education dept would have some shred of accountability unlike the IHSAA.

[Coach Seltzer]

I agree with coach Hartman.. Its like pissing in the wind.. The IHSAA needs to establish a leg to stand on..Otherwise, programs are going to lose kids to other schools and the integrity of the sport is/will continue to be compromised. Some administrations throughout the state are weak and gutless and will do what ever it takes to win. This is not the NFL/MLB/NBA.. There is no free agency.

[fire77]

MTV responce to my posting.

 

"I have no meangingful information on any of these court cases.  I really don't care all that much about them, but I don't know if right or wrong has anything to do with these cases.  What you may find is that courts tend to rule for the side that can prove that their rights are/were violated or that their freedom to do what is best for their personal situation has been infringed upon.   I am sure a court strongly frowns upon an entity such as a school trying to penalize a child for changing schools to better their situation.  Right and wrong are subjective.  It may just be that portions of the by-laws and/or rules of the IHSAA are not in agreement with current judicial thinking regarding personal freedom.

 

No one likes to be told what to do.  That is essentially the job of the IHSAA.  Without them, how do you govern anything in sports?  There has to be a governing body.  99.9% of athletes probably have no problem with the IHSAA.  Anytime a conflict, a ruling, or some rule change comes down, then everyone wants to burn them at the stake.  At the end of the day, the IHSAA does much more good than harm, in spite of all the various problems."

 

 

I think violating someones rights is WRONG period. I dont believe the IHSAA has that right but they do. They do not look at what is the right thing to do they just act according to the school that lost the student. If they dont know what is right then they should not be in a position to rule on such matters. As far as governing the sports a committee of Principles and AD's could be formed to make any decisions that need to be made. There would be some accountability at least.As far as 99.9 % of athletes not having a problem with the IHSAA that is only because 99.9 % of athletes never have any contact with them. From what I read most of the people that do have to deal with them do have a problem with the way they act.

Let me tell you a true story that actually happened , the IHSAA ruled that 3 athletes could participate in a sport because three female members of the committee stated on the record that they did not believe it was a good thing that 3 girls choose to live with their dad instead of  their  mom, when they were reminded they had to make their decision based on the facts presented they chuckled and proceeded to vote their opionion anyway. regardless of who or where you think someone should live if that does not pertain to the case how could a committee vote on personal opionion instead of the facts. I almost forgot when meeting Blake rees he actually said to the students that he was their enemy. Now that sounds like a person or group I would want making decisions about anyones future.That is an example of the group at the IHSAA making the decisions.

[Silence Dogood]

I haven't really thought much about the issue.  What is the reasoning behind not letting kids transfer? 

[MattM]

I haven't really thought much about the issue.  What is the reasoning behind not letting kids transfer?  

 

It suppose to be about the education integrity of the schools systems educaitonal goal over the athletic oppertunities it provides.  Because of the new educational setup of Indiana schools student are now allowed to more freely move school systems.  However, the IHSAA still want to ensure the point for students, parents, and the school system itself is educationally driven not athletics.  If it was the other way around and sport are driving the schools (even more than now) it would basically unravel the whole point of the education system.  THe IHSAA will not allowed you to participate in sports at the new school for a year if it is proven the main reason you transfered was for a sports oppertunity not an education one.  Your previous school has to sign off on the new school tranfer being OK in order for the IHSAA athletic rule to not take effect.  However, lawyers and parents have found ways to get around this situation in some instances.

[beachbum21]

While I think the IHSAA is a JOKE, I do believe they need to re-establish themselves to regain control and authority over student eligibility and transfers.  I can see not only our sport but other spinning out of control.  Very soon it will be like colleges, the best teams will be the ones that can recruit the best. I thought high school was supposed to be about communities building their own programs competing against other communities.  If the majority of Indiana Coaches don't like it, I would like to see the coaches association and their president do the right thing, step up and speak out against the ever increasing transfers and support the IHSAA on this issue. Students, stay home and compete with your friends.  I was talking to one veteran coach Saturday at Folkstyle state (who has 20+ years of coaching in Indiana) and he said the current situation is driving him out of the sport very quickly.  He has no interest in recruiting to compete but says he feels that is what our sport is coming to.  He had no desire to be a college coach and hit the recruiting trail.  He asked why can't kids stay where they are supposed to and let the coaches coach the kids in their community?  Maybe I don't get it but seeing kids transfer their junior / senior year should not be allowed unless true hardship is proven (job transfer, parents divorce, etc....) but to allow these kids to transfer during high school just to compete in sports is crazy.... at least to me.  

[outsidersview]

I agree with coach Hartman.. Its like pissing in the wind.. The IHSAA needs to establish a leg to stand on..Otherwise, programs are going to lose kids to other schools and the integrity of the sport is/will continue to be compromised. Some administrations throughout the state are weak and gutless and will do what ever it takes to win. This is not the NFL/MLB/NBA.. There is no free agency.

Funny!! Very good comparison too

 

[oldbuckeye]

No free agency? Not according to the Department of Education. A student may transfer to another school to take a class not offered at their orginal school or because their school is not preforming &/or passing enough on the GQE test...... this is now State and Federal guidelines. So for a student to transfer all they have to do is find a class not offered at their orginal school. Or if they are from a poor performing school they can transfer to any school that is performing better.

 

The State of Indiana now has free transfer!!!! A student and their parents just have to be smart enough not say athletics. The Department of Education along with No Child Left Behind or RITT whichever one you want to call upon have now made it open enrollment!

[mtv2112]

 

I think violating someones rights is WRONG period. I dont believe the IHSAA has that right but they do. They do not look at what is the right thing to do they just act according to the school that lost the student. If they dont know what is right then they should not be in a position to rule on such matters. As far as governing the sports a committee of Principles and AD's could be formed to make any decisions that need to be made. There would be some accountability at least.As far as 99.9 % of athletes not having a problem with the IHSAA that is only because 99.9 % of athletes never have any contact with them. From what I read most of the people that do have to deal with them do have a problem with the way they act.

Let me tell you a true story that actually happened , the IHSAA ruled that 3 athletes could participate in a sport because three female members of the committee stated on the record that they did not believe it was a good thing that 3 girls choose to live with their dad instead of  their  mom, when they were reminded they had to make their decision based on the facts presented they chuckled and proceeded to vote their opionion anyway. regardless of who or where you think someone should live if that does not pertain to the case how could a committee vote on personal opionion instead of the facts. I almost forgot when meeting Blake rees he actually said to the students that he was their enemy. Now that sounds like a person or group I would want making decisions about anyones future.That is an example of the group at the IHSAA making the decisions.

 

First, the principals and AD's would not have time to be the governing body.  They do, however, govern the IHSAA.  I don't see how it would be better.  I am not saying it is good or perfect, but I don't see how a comittee of principals and AD's would be better.  They would likely be more uninformed.

 

Second, did the schools these girls transfered to have stronger or weaker sports programs for their sport?  That will tell you why they transfered.  Don't believe in coincidences.  But I would agree that in cases where the kid is going to live with another family member, then there should be no more discussion.  Transfer approved.

 

NCAA has the same types of problems with the same types of arguments.  They generally have a one year period before the athlete can play sports again.  Sometimes they waive that rule.

[fire77]

  The girls transferred because of a divorce and the parent they lived with lived in a different school district. They will graduate this year and they still live at a house their dad bought. The school ( the one they are at) does have a better graduation rate by far and several more program available. They are honor roll students.

  So the principles do not time to govern but they have time to govern the IHSAA? It would be better because I believe the principles would look into issues and act accordingly like they do with issues at their school. The IHSAA has shown time and time again they do what thye want with no reason behind their decisions. If they had reason on their they would not lose the percentage of cases in court.

  The NCAA gives out scholarships to the athletes which the high school in question does not give. I dont think the same rules apply to a college athlete that is not on scholarship. I know some wrestlers that have changed colleges and they were allowed to compete the next season since they were not on scholarship. A person can live in any state and go to any college, it is there choice  but a person goes to the high school in their district except private schools. That is why the comparison is not valid. It would be a similar comparison  if they went to a high school that gave out scholarships.

[mtv2112]

  The girls transferred because of a divorce and the parent they lived with lived in a different school district. They will graduate this year and they still live at a house their dad bought. The school ( the one they are at) does have a better graduation rate by far and several more program available. They are honor roll students.

  So the principles do not time to govern but they have time to govern the IHSAA? It would be better because I believe the principles would look into issues and act accordingly like they do with issues at their school. The IHSAA has shown time and time again they do what thye want with no reason behind their decisions. If they had reason on their they would not lose the percentage of cases in court.

   The NCAA gives out scholarships to the athletes which the high school in question does not give. I dont think the same rules apply to a college athlete that is not on scholarship. I know some wrestlers that have changed colleges and they were allowed to compete the next season since they were not on scholarship. A person can live in any state and go to any college, it is there choice  but a person goes to the high school in their district except private schools. That is why the comparison is not valid. It would be a similar comparison  if they went to a high school that gave out scholarships.

 

You can go to any public high school you want in the state of Indiana.  You don't have to stay in your district.  Should you go to a school that is not in your district, that school has the right to charge you for tuition that is the difference between what the state pays per student and what the district spends per student if the district spends more than the state allows (around $5,000/kid).

 

I was pointing out that if someone is not happy with the IHSAA, then they would be equally unhappy with a principals and AD's, since the IHSAA is governed by principals now.  It would only get worse.  Now, if you want the department of education to take it over, that would be a different story, but I suspect with the same problems.  Governing bodies are going to make mistakes, they are going to do things out of ignorance, spite, or any other manner of reasons.

 

Research what other states do and pick something better.  I just think the problems will always exist because somewhere there will always be someone trying to bend and break rules.  Sometimes the innocent get caught up in it.

[fire77]

I will agree to disagree about the IHSAA. Obviously it is a little more complicated , going to any school you want when it comes to participating in sports or there would not be any decisions for the IHSAA to mess up.  No group could do any worse than the IHSAA, their track record shows that. Are we ever going to get rid of them I doubt it. That is also why we will never get wrestle backs.