Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I believe buscowrestling is trying to say that coaches don't move positions to improve financially and improve their chances for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Cale Hoover - Anderson Highland to Center Grove, farther from home. I thought Cale was the assistant coach at Anderson Highland before going to Center Grove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think many things factor in when choosing a school or moving to a new one. And it's probably different for everyone. Sometimes it's all about timing a certain job both coaching and teaching may not be available and they may choose another school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Hoover Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I was an assistant at Highland before leaving for Hamilton Southeastern. I was at HSE for two years before coming to Center Grove. My wife worked at Center Grove and so we now live one mile from school which is great and was huge for the family now that we have twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I would hope that coaches would look to improve their situations in any number of ways. I would think that success at the team and program would be one factor that would lead coaches to look for better situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstruck Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Jim Tonte coached at Tri-West before Perry Meridian. Brad Harper coached at Benton Central before Penn. Danny Struck coached at Greencasatle before Jeffersonville. Lance Ellis coached at Bishop Chatard before Roncalli. Tom Miller coached at Tri-Central before Lafayette Jeff. Jarred Williams went from Avon(2200 enrollment) to Lawrence North(2800 enrollment) Only reason I left Greencastle is because they had a reduction in force, at that time I was the youngest teacher in the school district. I would have not left. Jeffersonville was the first job offere, they offered both me and my wife teaching positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 I believe buscowrestling is trying to say that coaches don't move positions to improve financially and improve their chances for success. At what point in the discussion did I ever say this? Several times in this disscussion I have stated that I may be wrong, or even given examples when a coach has went to a bigger school from a smaller school. I have never once said that it has never happened as the quote above says. I do feel that these are possible reasons for changes, but not the only ones. If by improve financially you mean get a teaching job then I completly agree. If you are ensuing that a coach leaves the school they are at because the coaching pay only is different then I totally disagree. I also believe that while the chance for success is important to these coaches ,it is also obvious that in most of these situations location has been a factor. I am simply putting up my opinion as that an opinion, yet at the same time others opionions are treated as facts. Twice in the discussion your arguments have shown holes, once with Coach Harper looking for a teaching postion and us not knowing if there were teaching openings at Marian or St. Joe, and once with Coach Struck saying he wouldn't have left Greencastle. Again I am not saying it never happens, I just feel that teaching jobs and location play bigger roles than the possibility of coaching success, but i may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 its ok busco, y2 loves to put words into people's mouths. That statement is the same as this statement "y2 said that coaches only leave small schools due to money issues or because the wrestling programs are stronger." However, both you and I know this statement would be false. We both know that y2 never said this, just as Y2 knows is summary of your statement is wrong. However, he chooses to still say it. Although I must say, his whole theory has been shot down twice by coaches themselves in this thread so far. So far..... Coaches who went to bigger schools because of pay or programs: 0 Coaches who left for other reasons (such as getting cut out of the school system, or location of schools): 2 Love to see some of the other coaches chime in. I would guess the first category would end up on top of the 2nd one, but it might be closer than i thought it would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 So good coaches just magically end up at bigger schools from their previous school. How come they don't magically appear at smaller schools? Where are the examples of a top 50 coaches going to worse situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 At what point in the discussion did I ever say this? Several times in this disscussion I have stated that I may be wrong, or even given examples when a coach has went to a bigger school from a smaller school. I have never once said that it has never happened as the quote above says. I do feel that these are possible reasons for changes, but not the only ones. If by improve financially you mean get a teaching job then I completly agree. If you are ensuing that a coach leaves the school they are at because the coaching pay only is different then I totally disagree. I also believe that while the chance for success is important to these coaches ,it is also obvious that in most of these situations location has been a factor. I am simply putting up my opinion as that an opinion, yet at the same time others opionions are treated as facts. Twice in the discussion your arguments have shown holes, once with Coach Harper looking for a teaching postion and us not knowing if there were teaching openings at Marian or St. Joe, and once with Coach Struck saying he wouldn't have left Greencastle. Again I am not saying it never happens, I just feel that teaching jobs and location play bigger roles than the possibility of coaching success, but i may be wrong. Y2's post said that he believed that is what you were saying. When you post opinion on a message board, they are fair game for interpretation. Some realize this, some just say "hey your putting words in my mouth" or "hey, your twisting my words instead. It is obvious that you were implying exactly what Y2 typed. I don't think y2 ever asserted that pay and locations were not a factor. We must not have many driven coaches at smaller schools if they are looking to move up in their profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 So good coaches just magically end up at bigger schools from their previous school. How come they don't magically appear at smaller schools? Where are the examples of a top 50 coaches going to worse situations? I think that everyone agrees that coaches will likely move to improve their situation. For some coaches this means moving closer to home, back to their alma mater, closer to a new job, or to a school with a teaching position open. I think those reasons are more likely to prompt a coach to change schools as opposed to the enrollment size of the schools. Maybe they are ending up at bigger schools because those schools and communities are more likley to have job openings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Big Dan show me any point were I tried to imply that no coach has ever tried to improve their situation financially or to have more success. I have never once said or implied this. I have said or implied that I do not think that it is the only reason that coaches change schools. I have even given examples of such situations were it possibly has occured. I have stated in nearly each post that I do not know the reasons, and I have also stated that each of these coaches may very well have left for financial or wrestling success. I do not know there stories. Even in the opening post of this topic I stated that I was sure that coaches changing for success had happened before. So a quote that says that I am trying to say that coaches never leave for financial success and wrestling success in completly false, because I have stated that it has happened, I just dont believe that it happens each time. Dan that word "never" is the key which makes it seem as though I am completly oblivious and close minded to the possibility of it happening which again I am not. As far as your assement that all coaches at small schools are not driven (see how I did that), I disagree totally and would say that they are possibly more driven by the fact that they try to get more with less. At Busco we wrestle several four and five A schools. We dont complain about it, we are driven and try to beat them. And we work hard to do it. So I think your statement that small school coaches are not driven, and that if we were we would look to go to bigger schools is completely short sighted. Also what if a guy has been at a small school, and has taught there for years is he suppossed to up and leave his school and teaching job for a coaching only job at a big school? Come on man you sound like an idiot when you make these statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think that everyone agrees that coaches will likely move to improve their situation. For some coaches this means moving closer to home, back to their alma mater, closer to a new job, or to a school with a teaching position open. I think those reasons are more likely to prompt a coach to change schools as opposed to the enrollment size of the schools. Maybe they are ending up at bigger schools because those schools and communities are more likley to have job openings. How come people don't improve their situation at a smaller school? I am also curious why it took Pioneer until September to find a new wrestling coach. They had a good program with a solid foundation for any coach to take over, yet it took a long time to find a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 How come people don't improve their situation at a smaller school? I am also curious why it took Pioneer until September to find a new wrestling coach. They had a good program with a solid foundation for any coach to take over, yet it took a long time to find a coach. Did the new coach at Pioneer also get a teaching position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Big Dan show me any point were I tried to imply that no coach has ever tried to improve their situation financially or to have more success. I have never once said or implied this. I have said or implied that I do not think that it is the only reason that coaches change schools. I have even given examples of such situations were it possibly has occured. I have stated in nearly each post that I do not know the reasons, and I have also stated that each of these coaches may very well have left for financial or wrestling success. I do not know there stories. Even in the opening post of this topic I stated that I was sure that coaches changing for success had happened before. So a quote that says that I am trying to say that coaches never leave for financial success and wrestling success in completly false, because I have stated that it has happened, I just dont believe that it happens each time. Dan that word "never" is the key which makes it seem as though I am completly oblivious and close minded to the possibility of it happening which again I am not. As far as your assement that all coaches at small schools are not driven (see how I did that), I disagree totally and would say that they are possibly more driven by the fact that they try to get more with less. At Busco we wrestle several four and five A schools. We dont complain about it, we are driven and try to beat them. And we work hard to do it. So I think your statement that small school coaches are not driven, and that if we were we would look to go to bigger schools is completely short sighted. Also what if a guy has been at a small school, and has taught there for years is he suppossed to up and leave his school and teaching job for a coaching only job at a big school? Come on man you sound like an idiot when you make these statements. Like I said, when you post opinion on a message board, it is open to interpretation. Gook luck driving that busco squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Did the new coach at Pioneer also get a teaching position? lay coach i believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I am also curious why it took Pioneer until September to find a new wrestling coach. Who wanted to move in this chaotic housing market....... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 How come people don't improve their situation at a smaller school? I am also curious why it took Pioneer until September to find a new wrestling coach. They had a good program with a solid foundation for any coach to take over, yet it took a long time to find a coach. Was there a teaching position available? What subject? How's the job market near Pioneer if a lay coach had to move to the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Dan how can you interpret some one saying "i'm sure this has happened" To mean "it has never happenened." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 How come people don't improve their situation at a smaller school? because no body cares about small schools, we people who came from big schools would just wish they died off so they could make our schools larger when they close their doors....... you finally caught on, its a huge conspiracy, guess we will have to try a new strategy to destroy them : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Was there a teaching position available? What subject? How's the job market near Pioneer if a lay coach had to move to the area? Maybe the candidates couldn't decide what to do with the extreme amounts of money that they would be getting for coaching? What Indiana high school wrestling coach is knocking down some serious dough for what they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Dan how can you interpret some one saying "i'm sure this has happened" To mean "it has never happenened." Could it be possible that maybe, just maybe, y2 broadly interpreted your quote because classless supporters tend to pick one isolated benefit to class wrestling and try to debunk the entire idea of class wrestling. It is fairly obvious that coaches have many reasons for changing positions, no one is disagreeing with that point. It is also fairly obvious that coaches that want to win sectional, regional, and state titles better find a big school. Those small school driven coaches will have to be content with conference and occasional individual success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 First off I am a suppoter of the team portion being classed. Secondly I am not trying to debunk class wrestling. I started this post as a look in to why coaches left their schools, and if most people agree that it is for wrestling success which I do not believe to be the case in all of the situations brought foward, so how that is me saying that "no one has ever left a small school for a big school for success" is beyond me. Secondly I am a class team supporter but to say that small schools cannot have success right now is not true. Am I suppossed to look at Whitko and Garrett who won our sectional and somehow feel that my small school could never do the same? Garrett beat us heads up this year and Whitko would have to, but im not just going to say that small schools canont have success at the sectional level. Secondly how can we say that small schools cannot ever win when the state runner ups were a small school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Where are the examples of a top 50 coaches going to worse situations? He was an assistant, so maybe not a great example but: Brandon Razo went from Homestead to Bluffton. 5A to 2A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 This seemed like a thread that might provoke mind-expanding discussion and thoughtfulness. Instead, the opposite occurred and it turned into a class discussion. AJ laughs, but it's becoming a enabled laughingstock with nothing at stake and nothing to gain other than the flexing of not only fingers on a keyboard, but other digits as well. I guess I had better get that next grad course in if I want others to be involved in my mental gratification plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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