fearless fly Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Are you sure you're not "Fearless Fly" incognito?????? ;D ;D What the heck are you insinuating? I for one is not going to sit here and take this kind of abuse...that is why I'm standing as I type my response!!! ff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 No system class or no class produces more top tier wrestlers. The argument for class wrestling has always been to help out the smaller high schools that are struggling. It would also help get more kids recognized by small colleges. This would help wrestling in the long run if we had more people coaching that had a higher level of wrestling background. How are we going to help the large schools that struggle with wrrestling? ff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 So to get this back ontrack with the subject of Hijacked Threads...Who else thinks Rachel Ray is a hottie? ME!!!! Love her voice She is tasty! and when she says extra virgin olive oil.....BOING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 and when she says extra virgin olive oil.....BOING!!! Deflowered Olive Oil anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Deflowered Olive Oil anyone? Watch......you're getting kinda risque and risky..... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Call it an anomaly, but there are two coaches from the same northern Indiana county who never wrestled a competitive match in their lives, made our hall of fame, and have been responsible for perhaps the longest and widest coaching tree in the state. Perhaps, the college successes from wrestlers from these coaches have not yet proved overwhelming, but obviously the college exposure by these wrestlers of these two coaches has resulted in the giving back to our sport for the decades subsequent to the tenures of these two men. Can the state be even better with more and more of the college wrestlers coming back to coach? Of course. Does this mean these stellar qualifications and connections will instantly translate into more success than for those programs and coaches who were not blessed with the same types of resumes? Who knows. One would think so, but ongoing history shows that other factors that do not depend upon college exposure can absolutely have a long lasting and fruitful effect. No system class or no class produces more top tier wrestlers. The argument for class wrestling has always been to help out the smaller high schools that are struggling. It would also help get more kids recognized by small colleges. This would help wrestling in the long run if we had more people coaching that had a higher level of wrestling background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 who are these two guys busstogate, I think I know one from St Joe County... but i am not sure if that is the county you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I'm betting one is Don Patton. I heard him say once in a panel discussion that he'd never wrestled a day in his life. Worked at a gas station while he was in high school, I think. Said the key to his success was to surround himself with assistants who knew what in the hell they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 i delta far enough north to be called in "northeren" county? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I refuse to be drug into this argument anymore. Absolutely no more comments from me on this topic. Too many other things are more important. Classic. Step 1. Ask question. Step 2. Get a perfectly reasonable and logical answer. Step 3. Refuse to ackknowledge. Step 4. Return to previous thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 How are we going to help the large schools that struggle with wrrestling? ff In a two class format they would be helped out with a 25% increase in state qualifiers, so they would be helped too, just not at the level of the small schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Actually Y2 the idea of classing wrestling does very little for a struggling program in either class. Why would we go to radical changes in a system that does not fix the problem? Maybe we should start looking at counties that need help and put our resources in those areas. You say RTC don't do much but last time I checked most of the areas that have them have successful programs that are able to use them. We could also have a much bigger focus on youth wrestling arround the state. I would say that wrestling in Indiana is not being beat by other states in the high school as much as we are at the youth level accross the nation. When other states youth programs are better they have a head start and it shows when they get to highschool. Look at some of our past state champions. Some guys had more state titles then their age. They have been on the mat since 3 or 4 years of age. I am just trying to throw out an alternative to making a radical change to the sport that can never be changed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 In a two class format they would be helped out with a 25% increase in state qualifiers, so they would be helped too, just not at the level of the small schools. Y2, you should have brought up the subject of class wrestling with Coach Wilks during your interview. I would love to hear his take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Ok y2, so i took some time to process what you wrote about why class wrestling is good for the college process. Do to some wacky thing my computuer does when my postst are too long i will not copy and paste, rather paraphrase and probably do so in more than 1 post. 1) You stated that wrestlers will get on the scene earlier and get recruited by a certain college earlier, thus the parents can financially prepare earlier. Ok good point, however, this is not as big of a deal as one would think. Cause most parents are probably preparing for their kids to go to college whether they get a scholarship or not. Heck it should at this point be easier for the parents to pay for school IF the wrestler gets a scholarship. But I could see this being a help for some families, so I say its a good and valid point for some families. 2) You stated that wrestlers will get on the scene earlier and get recruited by a certain college earlier, and thus prepare their academic qualifications for college earlier. I agree with the first part of your statement, but are you telling me that wrestlers aren't preparing as hard as they can academically until they know they are getting a scholarship, or until they know what school they are going to? I mean come on, first off the athletes should be busting their butts in the class room without having a scholarship yet. Heck, if the do not know they are getting a scholarship for athletics, they should be busting thier hump even harder in the class room to try and get as much money from the school they are going to as a result of their grades and test scores. Same should go for preparing for the SAT's or ACT's. Whether they get a scholarship for wrestling or not should have no bearing on how they are preparing academically. IF however it does, then the coaches and parents and teachers of the child are letting the child down by not helping the child reach his/her potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 continuing... 3) You state that since a makes it to the ticket round a loses it might make him want to work harder. Possible, but this might hurt small schools in all actuality. You have previously said that small school athletes have to participate in so many sports outside of wrestling that they just do not have the time to put into wrestling as the large school atletes. Therefore, more large school athletes will make it to the ticket round under a classed system that a small school athlete. Then it will be these kids from the larger schools that can may desire making it to state and actually have the ability to go national, to RTC's, and camps. Thus the larger schools are getting better and the smaller schools might get left behind. In doing so this may hurt the smaller schools in recruiting while helping the larger schools in recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 continuing 4) You say that class wrestling would make it so more kids are in one place for the scouts to come see, thus more scouts will be there. Possible, but we wouldn't know for sure until the format arose. What could just as easily happen is it could weaken State and make it even less attractive to scouts. How is this? Well knowing the IHSAA, they are going to say that there is no time for an extra 16 wrestlers to be at state on Friday night/Saturday morning, I mean really are they going to rent out the place more than they already do? I mean seriously the IHSAA hates wrestling and isn't going to spend another dime on it than they need to. So my guess is that state would conist of 2 classes with 8 man brckets in each weight class. This way they do not have to spend any more money. Now, i believe under you old numbers, were not 75 percent of the wrestlers from large schools in the past? So now, we take out the bottom 3rd of the wrestlers from the large schools who make state and were considered top 16 wrestlers in the state and we add in 4 wrestlers who would not have made state from the smaller schools into the mix. At best these 4 wrestlers would be the 17th-20th best wrestlers in the state under a non classed system. Therefore, instead of having arguably the top 16 wrestlers in the state at state, we not have the top 12 wrestlers plus 4 wrestlers that are not even in the top 16 competeing at state. Thus watering down State and making it less attractive to scouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Finishing..... Now, I think i understand your points, and I could see how they might intned to help, but in the end, I could see them hurting wrestling unintentionally through the "law of unintentional consequesnces." Now, I think that the system we have now could actually help small schools because these small school wrestlers get to compete against these nationally ranked and recognized guys. Think about it, joe shmoe from podunk school no one has heard of gets to go up against big bad nationally known dude from big bad school in Indiana. If Joe Shmoe beats Big Bad Nationally Known dude, or gives him one heck of a match, all the sudden Joe Shmoe might raise some eyebrows from the smaller schools. However, if we take away Joe Shmoe's opportunity to wrestle Big Bad Nationaly Known Dude, Joe Shmoe may me over looked. Plus as stated before, you are mostly going to make the big schools better, because small school athletes do not have the time to for RTC's, Camps, or off season stuff becuause they have to play football and baseball or track or something like that. Thus recruiters will be more likely to over look the small school wrestlers in favor of the big school wrestlers instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Ok y2, so i took some time to process what you wrote about why class wrestling is good for the college process. Do to some wacky thing my computuer does when my postst are too long i will not copy and paste, rather paraphrase and probably do so in more than 1 post. 1) You stated that wrestlers will get on the scene earlier and get recruited by a certain college earlier, thus the parents can financially prepare earlier. Ok good point, however, this is not as big of a deal as one would think. Cause most parents are probably preparing for their kids to go to college whether they get a scholarship or not. Heck it should at this point be easier for the parents to pay for school IF the wrestler gets a scholarship. But I could see this being a help for some families, so I say its a good and valid point for some families. 2) You stated that wrestlers will get on the scene earlier and get recruited by a certain college earlier, and thus prepare their academic qualifications for college earlier. I agree with the first part of your statement, but are you telling me that wrestlers aren't preparing as hard as they can academically until they know they are getting a scholarship, or until they know what school they are going to? I mean come on, first off the athletes should be busting their butts in the class room without having a scholarship yet. Heck, if the do not know they are getting a scholarship for athletics, they should be busting thier hump even harder in the class room to try and get as much money from the school they are going to as a result of their grades and test scores. Same should go for preparing for the SAT's or ACT's. Whether they get a scholarship for wrestling or not should have no bearing on how they are preparing academically. IF however it does, then the coaches and parents and teachers of the child are letting the child down by not helping the child reach his/her potential. Yes I am saying there many kids in high school that are being lazy academically. I agree they should be busting their butts, but that is not the reality. You live in a dream world if you think every high school kid is busting their butt academically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Pin 2 win are you talking about guys like Devon Jackson from Yorktown who gave nationally ranked Tsirtsis a great match? Thats a great point. Y2 he never said every high schooler was busting their butts. If you plan on wrestling at any college you should be and if you don't its retarded to blame it on classless wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 continuing... 3) You state that since a makes it to the ticket round a loses it might make him want to work harder. Possible, but this might hurt small schools in all actuality. You have previously said that small school athletes have to participate in so many sports outside of wrestling that they just do not have the time to put into wrestling as the large school atletes. Therefore, more large school athletes will make it to the ticket round under a classed system that a small school athlete. Then it will be these kids from the larger schools that can may desire making it to state and actually have the ability to go national, to RTC's, and camps. Thus the larger schools are getting better and the smaller schools might get left behind. In doing so this may hurt the smaller schools in recruiting while helping the larger schools in recruiting. Shucks you got me...well not really. You still do not understand the dynamics at a small school. During the summer is when a kid will choose which sport to improve in. That is choosing from 7 on 7 football, summer baseball, or wrestling camps. Usually a kid will pick his favorite sport or the one he(or the team) has the most success in to go after these summer activities. On top of that during the spring a kid would be more likely to bust his butt to get to a local club or RTC after a game or practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 i delta far enough north to be called in "northeren" county? It is when you're located down here in the crotch of the state!! Everything is northern country from down here...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 continuing 4) You say that class wrestling would make it so more kids are in one place for the scouts to come see, thus more scouts will be there. Possible, but we wouldn't know for sure until the format arose. What could just as easily happen is it could weaken State and make it even less attractive to scouts. How is this? Well knowing the IHSAA, they are going to say that there is no time for an extra 16 wrestlers to be at state on Friday night/Saturday morning, I mean really are they going to rent out the place more than they already do? I mean seriously the IHSAA hates wrestling and isn't going to spend another dime on it than they need to. So my guess is that state would conist of 2 classes with 8 man brckets in each weight class. This way they do not have to spend any more money. Now, i believe under you old numbers, were not 75 percent of the wrestlers from large schools in the past? So now, we take out the bottom 3rd of the wrestlers from the large schools who make state and were considered top 16 wrestlers in the state and we add in 4 wrestlers who would not have made state from the smaller schools into the mix. At best these 4 wrestlers would be the 17th-20th best wrestlers in the state under a non classed system. Therefore, instead of having arguably the top 16 wrestlers in the state at state, we not have the top 12 wrestlers plus 4 wrestlers that are not even in the top 16 competeing at state. Thus watering down State and making it less attractive to scouts How do I know? I see it at freestyle state every year. Every year at freestyle state with 400 wrestlers that are cadets and juniors. I always see an Indiapolis, Wabash, Trine and Cal College coach there. They can watch some of the best wrestlers in the state in one place and find next year's recruits and even snag a current senior who is undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Finishing..... Now, I think i understand your points, and I could see how they might intned to help, but in the end, I could see them hurting wrestling unintentionally through the "law of unintentional consequesnces." Now, I think that the system we have now could actually help small schools because these small school wrestlers get to compete against these nationally ranked and recognized guys. Think about it, joe shmoe from podunk school no one has heard of gets to go up against big bad nationally known dude from big bad school in Indiana. If Joe Shmoe beats Big Bad Nationally Known dude, or gives him one heck of a match, all the sudden Joe Shmoe might raise some eyebrows from the smaller schools. However, if we take away Joe Shmoe's opportunity to wrestle Big Bad Nationaly Known Dude, Joe Shmoe may me over looked. Plus as stated before, you are mostly going to make the big schools better, because small school athletes do not have the time to for RTC's, Camps, or off season stuff becuause they have to play football and baseball or track or something like that. Thus recruiters will be more likely to over look the small school wrestlers in favor of the big school wrestlers instead. Big bad Joe Schmoe might not have the grades to go to college and could have already signed his papers for the Army. Oops too bad, he could have been an AA for Trine. College coaches will look at a small school three sport athlete and say "wow think if this kid only wrestled like he would in college." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Shucks you got me...well not really. You still do not understand the dynamics at a small school. During the summer is when a kid will choose which sport to improve in. That is choosing from 7 on 7 football, summer baseball, or wrestling camps. Usually a kid will pick his favorite sport or the one he(or the team) has the most success in to go after these summer activities. On top of that during the spring a kid would be more likely to bust his butt to get to a local club or RTC after a game or practice. Along with weights at least 3 days a week in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Classic. Step 1. Ask question. Step 2. Get a perfectly reasonable and logical answer. Step 3. Refuse to ackknowledge. Step 4. Return to previous thought process. Classic......I'll consider that a compliment Step 1. I never asked a question...only made a comment Step 2. Since I never asked a question, I can't receive an answer......and the comment that was made isn't perfectly reasonable or logical to me. Step 3. My right if I want to exercise it Step 4. The previous thought process (mine) is logical to me......if you don't care to understand it that's you're right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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