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So any kid that is not contacted by a college coach should hang up his shoes?  I am glad I did not take that advice.

 

Did i say that? really look back at it and see if i said that. theat is the problem Y2, and that is where you lose my respect, you put words into other people's mouths and make sarcastic remarks becuse you disagree with a person.

All i said that if a college is going to take a kid, they are going to have to be the best of the best because there are not many college programs out there, especially at larger schools. I never, ever said that people should hang up their shoes if they are not recruited.

 

You are a real piece of work y2.

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This is what you said

If he is unable to have success in a 1 class system, then I can't see colleges really going after him, atleast not yet in Indaina.

 

You are telling every wrestler that isn't contacted by a college to hang it up, you aren't worthy.

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If he is unable to have success in a 1 class system, then I can't see colleges really going after him, atleast not yet in Indaina.

 

You are telling every wrestler that isn't contacted by a college to hang it up, you aren't worthy.

 

read, and then re-read, then re-re-read my statement. No where does that statement say what your statement says.

 

Let me exegete my statement for you. Let us first start with the end  ". . . I can't see colleges really going after him, atleast not yet in Indaina." This does not mean a wrestler should not try and wrestle in college as a walk on. What I am saying is that the colleges are not going to recruit someone who is not the best of the best.

 

Now who is the best of the best, or successful in a 1 class system. I would be willing to say people who fail to make it out or regionals are definately out. Now, I would say that 90% of the time, the successful/best of the best are the state finalists. But there are those times where guys get bad draws in the ticket round and get left home. So I would say that unless you are one of the last 32 guys wrestling, in the state tournament series, you would not be qualified as sucessful.

 

Therefore, my above statement, once exegeted, would be. Unless your are one of the last 16 wrestlers in the state, and in extreme cases the last 32 wrestlers, I really doubt colleges are going to want you.

 

Therefore I can make this assumption....

 

If colleges are looking for the best of the best, which i believe they do... Then if you fail to make state in a 1 class system, they more than likely will not be recruiting you.

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This is what you said

You are telling every wrestler that isn't contacted by a college to hang it up, you aren't worthy.

He just said that they won't be heavily recruited. Where does his ccomment say quit?

 

I believe coqhes understand the one class system. I know wrestlers at IU that have walked on though they weren't placewinners in Indiana. I don't know how many people who are SSQ and SQ without a championship or top 8 placing in a multiclass system  that go to walk on For a DI Big Ten School

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This is what you said

You are telling every wrestler that isn't contacted by a college to hang it up, you aren't worthy.

 

No, he isn't.  He's said that the colleges won't go after them.  And while I don't agree with that statement, he is saying they won't be recruited heavily or maybe even at all.  Having talked to a few college coaches, I can tell you they don't get hung up that much on in-state finishes.  They realize anyone can have a bad day.  They're more interested in competition at the national level and coachability.

 

Looks to me like this thread about hijacking threads has been hijacked..... ::)

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No, he isn't.  He's said that the colleges won't go after them.  And while I don't agree with that statement, he is saying they won't be recruited heavily or maybe even at all.  Having talked to a few college coaches, I can tell you they don't get hung up that much on in-state finishes.  They realize anyone can have a bad day.  They're more interested in competition at the national level and coachability.

 

Fair enough theckman... i understand what you are saying. But under y2's logic, smaller schools must use their athletes for all seasons of sports. That does not leave wrestlers at smaller schools the opportunity to be recognized nationally because all their time is spent playing sports at their school. So state is about the only spot small school kids can get recognized. Atleast that is what I am getting from y2. But please feel free to correct me if i am wrong in that belief.

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theckman, one last question..... how many wrestlers do you think get recruited that do not make state? Or maybe a better question, how many nationally recognized wrestlers fail to make it to state in Indiana?

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Fair enough theckman... i understand what you are saying. But under y2's logic, smaller schools must use their athletes for all seasons of sports. That does not leave wrestlers at smaller schools the opportunity to be recognized nationally because all their time is spent playing sports at their school. So state is about the only spot small school kids can get recognized. Atleast that is what I am getting from y2. But please feel free to correct me if i am wrong in that belief.

 

I have no idea what y2 is saying nor do I care.  And I would never try to figure out where y2 is coming from.  From the way he's been twisting words to fuel his own flames, he's not going to be swayed from his opinions.  It's getting to the point that I, for one, am about to refuse to read anything about class wrestling or any posting by y2.  He argues to point of being irrational.  You can't reason with people like that.  If BOTH sides would just agree to disagree and let it go, that would be beneficial.  But I'm sure someone (not mentioning "names") will jump all over what I've just said.

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theckman, one last question..... how many wrestlers do you think get recruited that do not make state? Or maybe a better question, how many nationally recognized wrestlers fail to make it to state in Indiana?

 

I really don't know.  I was just passing along what I had been told by 3 different college coaches. 

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He just said that they won't be heavily recruited. Where does his ccomment say quit?

 

I believe coqhes understand the one class system. I know wrestlers at IU that have walked on though they weren't placewinners in Indiana. I don't know how many people who are SSQ and SQ without a championship or top 8 placing in a multiclass system  that go to walk on For a DI Big Ten School

College coaches around the nation have stated Indiana should have a class system.  How many of those state qualifiers lasted more than a year?  How many ever started a varsity match?

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No, he isn't.  He's said that the colleges won't go after them.  And while I don't agree with that statement, he is saying they won't be recruited heavily or maybe even at all.  Having talked to a few college coaches, I can tell you they don't get hung up that much on in-state finishes.  They realize anyone can have a bad day.  They're more interested in competition at the national level and coachability.

 

Looks to me like this thread about hijacking threads has been hijacked..... ::)

Trine, Manchester, Indianapolis and Wabash don't go after Fargo or NHSCA placers, they don't have the resources to lure them into their programs.  They are lucky to get a top 20 recruit once every 5-10 years.  

 

The ones that are picking up the national placers are DI schools, not DII, DIII or NAIA.  It has been hashed over numerous times that statistics show a class system does not hinder a state's ability to produce top tier wrestlers.  On the same token a single class system does not garner more top tier wrestlers.

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The ones that are picking up the national placers are DI schools, not DII, DIII or NAIA.  It has been hashed over numerous times that statistics show a class system does not hinder a state's ability to produce top tier wrestlers.  On the same token a single class system does not garner more top tier wrestlers.

 

You missed the important point, so what if a class system does not hinder top tier wrestlers, and so what if a 1 class system does not garner more top tier wrestlers. The big question is, does a multiple class system produce more top tier wrestlers than are produced with a 1 class system? I personally do not think so.

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Joe, how would class wrestling make it so our wrestlers last longer in college and wrestle more varsity matches in college?

*Note that I am talking about DII, DIII, NAIA and JUCO levels.  I have stated numerous times that DI wrestlers are recruited by national means not in state success and that class or no class does not affect the number of top tier(DI AA) wrestlers a state produces.

 

A class individual system would get more kids recognized sooner in the recruiting wars.  That means Joe Bob and his family realize sooner that collegiate wrestling is an option.  That means Joe Bob has more time to make sure his grades and test scores are in line.  That means he has more time to look at college payment options.  If you have 15 months to plan this it is a lot easier than three months like an individual would now.  That is talking about the kid who maybe qualifies or places as a sophomore or junior.

 

Now talking about a kid that has some added success or almost makes it to state.  Make a note I saw this first hand last spring with an individual that made it to semi-state.  Say Joe Bob makes it to the ticket round as a sophomore.  After Joe Bob is finished he realizes how close he was to going to state.  He then tells his parents and coach that he wants to do what it takes to make it to that next level, because it is eating at him.  That means going to camps, clubs, RTCs, going to national events, going to offseason events etc to get better.  He therefore becomes better then gets recognized by colleges and lives happily ever after.

 

Another way more kids would be recruited more is the fact that we would simply have more top kids in one location for coaches to scout.  I know the Findlay coach does not come or send a rep to Indy because of the limited number of kids to go after.  Smaller schools have limited recruiting budgets and limited coaches to hit up all the semi-states. Add to the factor that our state tournament is during their most important part of the season.  By having more state qualifiers and thus more seniors, plus up and coming sophomores and juniors, you will get more coaches to our state finals to scout.

 

The first example would mean a kid is more likely to 1) go to college and 2) finish college.  The second example could lead to the first example, but it also increases the quality of our tournament with more kids seeking out further training beyond the November-February season.  Will this happen overnight, no, but it would happen sooner than one would imagine.  Is this a magical formula, no, it will still take hard work and dedication to become a state champion, that will never change.  

 

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You missed the important point, so what if a class system does not hinder top tier wrestlers, and so what if a 1 class system does not garner more top tier wrestlers. The big question is, does a multiple class system produce more top tier wrestlers than are produced with a 1 class system? I personally do not think so.

No system class or no class produces more top tier wrestlers.  The argument for class wrestling has always been to help out the smaller high schools that are struggling.  It would also help get more kids recognized by small colleges.  This would help wrestling in the long run if we had more people coaching that had a higher level of wrestling background.

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*Note that I am talking about DII, DIII, NAIA and JUCO levels.  I have stated numerous times that DI wrestlers are recruited by national means not in state success and that class or no class does not affect the number of top tier(DI AA) wrestlers a state produces.

 

A class individual system would get more kids recognized sooner in the recruiting wars.  That means Joe Bob and his family realize sooner that collegiate wrestling is an option.  That means Joe Bob has more time to make sure his grades and test scores are in line.  That means he has more time to look at college payment options.  If you have 15 months to plan this it is a lot easier than three months like an individual would now.  That is talking about the kid who maybe qualifies or places as a sophomore or junior.

 

Now talking about a kid that has some added success or almost makes it to state.  Make a note I saw this first hand last spring with an individual that made it to semi-state.  Say Joe Bob makes it to the ticket round as a sophomore.  After Joe Bob is finished he realizes how close he was to going to state.  He then tells his parents and coach that he wants to do what it takes to make it to that next level, because it is eating at him.  That means going to camps, clubs, RTCs, going to national events, going to offseason events etc to get better.  He therefore becomes better then gets recognized by colleges and lives happily ever after.

 

Another way more kids would be recruited more is the fact that we would simply have more top kids in one location for coaches to scout.  I know the Findlay coach does not come or send a rep to Indy because of the limited number of kids to go after.  Smaller schools have limited recruiting budgets and limited coaches to hit up all the semi-states. Add to the factor that our state tournament is during their most important part of the season.  By having more state qualifiers and thus more seniors, plus up and coming sophomores and juniors, you will get more coaches to our state finals to scout.

 

The first example would mean a kid is more likely to 1) go to college and 2) finish college.  The second example could lead to the first example, but it also increases the quality of our tournament with more kids seeking out further training beyond the November-February season.  Will this happen overnight, no, but it would happen sooner than one would imagine.  Is this a magical formula, no, it will still take hard work and dedication to become a state champion, that will never change.  

 

 

You could save this and post it every time someone starts a class wrestling thread but you will still be called a crybaby. Why?  Because this post makes too much sense

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Trine, Manchester, Indianapolis and Wabash don't go after Fargo or NHSCA placers, they don't have the resources to lure them into their programs.  They are lucky to get a top 20 recruit once every 5-10 years.  

 

The ones that are picking up the national placers are DI schools, not DII, DIII or NAIA.  It has been hashed over numerous times that statistics show a class system does not hinder a state's ability to produce top tier wrestlers.  On the same token a single class system does not garner more top tier wrestlers.

 

So by having more state champs, more state place winners, it increases the chance to be recruited?  Nah; I don't buy it.  Those same wrestlers compete in sectionals, regionals, and semistates so they are seen.

 

Mark Twain once said, "There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."  If you know how to do it, statistics can be manipulated to show almost anything.  Two people with diametrically opposite viewpoints can take the same set of statistics and turn it to support their side.

 

Tell you what.  Why don't you write up your proposal and take it to the IHSAA and see what happens.  If it garners support there, then serious talks can happen.

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So by having more state champs, more state place winners, it increases the chance to be recruited?  Nah; I don't buy it.  Those same wrestlers compete in sectionals, regionals, and semistates so they are seen.

 

Mark Twain once said, "There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."  If you know how to do it, statistics can be manipulated to show almost anything.  Two people with diametrically opposite viewpoints can take the same set of statistics and turn it to support their side.

 

Tell you what.  Why don't you write up your proposal and take it to the IHSAA and see what happens.  If it garners support there, then serious talks can happen.

Manchester has two coaches, it is hard for two coaches to go to 16 sectionals around the state in one day.  Wabash has three coaches, pretty tough for them too.  Trine has four coaches, again pretty tough.  Add to that, that the tournament series is during their most important part of the season and they have practices and matches to attend for their current wrestlers makes it even tougher. 

 

Please enlighten me to how more top wrestlers in ONE place does not help recruiting. 

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I took this picture near Conseco during the break this year. I bet that this guy's life would have been much different if he would have had all of the opportunities that class wrestling would have brought to him.

 

 

25450_1291748625985_1598357036_706123_1981780_n.jpg

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