whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I would think you would show more sportsmanship with 10,000 people watching than when 50 are watching, but that is just me. idk why you keep talking about optional sportsmanship... but you are going off track.. we were discussing how upset you were b/c he didnt shake your hand.. not how he shows sportsmanship infront of 10000 instead of 50. The state tournament meant more to him. So after his loss hes going to be very upset... Like i said before, everyone is flawed and dont make the best choices all the time, you are no different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 From what I hear over half of those 10000 were booing Willis. That tells me that at least 5000 of them thought he got screwed bad. Several teams do not even shake hands after there matches does that show bad sportsmanship? If so you are calling out some of the class acts of the wrestling community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? My wrestler has wrestled Vlahos four times prior to yesterday and after every match he has shook my hand. Something changed between those four matches and the one yesterday, that being the end result of it not being a victory in his favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? My wrestler has wrestled Vlahos four times prior to yesterday and after every match he has shook my hand. Something changed between those four matches and the one yesterday, that being the end result of it not being a victory in his favor. Another difference being the state tournament and it being the 1st match after he lost his dream... Vlahos didnt refuse to shake your hand b/c he has bad sportsmanship, he didnt shake it b/c the state finals meant everything to him, and it was gone... HE WAS UPSET, its not always about you, sometimes its just the other person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yeah he also got bent over the match before at the biggest tournement of his life. So there were two changes. You say it was because he lost against McCray I say its because Cathedral laid down to get to the finals. Either may be right we may never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naco228 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Vlahos didnt refuse to shake your hand b/c he has bad sportsmanship, he didnt shake it b/c the state finals meant everything to him, and it was gone... And you know that for a fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 agreed duck! Also he isnt the only wrestler that walked off the mat without shaking the other coaches hand... I saw it even in the finals. So if you are going to complain about not shaking hands with him, make sure you talk about every other wrestler that has done the same thing instead of singling him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 And you know that for a fact? I know vlahos is very competitive and will do almost anything to win, but one thing he isnt is a bad sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Then tell me why when he wins he has no problem shaking a coach's hand? Who cares if a kid's dream is shattered as you want to put it? Zac's dream was shattered after wrestling McMurray and he still went over and shook the Portage coach's hand. Character is shown in many different ways in this sport and your true character comes out when things do not go your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Then tell me why when he wins he has no problem shaking a coach's hand? Who cares if a kid's dream is shattered as you want to put it? Zac's dream was shattered after wrestling McMurray and he still went over and shook the Portage coach's hand. Character is shown in many different ways in this sport and your true character comes out when things do not go your way. Who cares if his dream was shattered? Obviously him, his family, team, friends, and fans... i dont know why you have to ask... He has shook coaches hands after losing many times. Its not like everytime he loses he refuses to shake hands. Again you are singling him out like hes the one and only to ever do that. Im sure if he wouldve shook your hand if he knew you were going to complain about it this much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 McCray did not get cheated out of the finals. He just got beat. It is different when your dreams are shatterd because of bs reasons. He did not get the chance to prove himself it was taken away by a bad coaching decision. We need to stop this situation from ever happening again. I can already see teams taking fake injuries into the state tournement for years to come. I will call it as I see it and this kid was not hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Honestly i think Vlahos would have beaten Willis if he can put willis on his back in the 1st 30 seconds that impressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I know vlahos is very competitive and will do almost anything to win, but one thing he isnt is a bad sport. We will have to agree to disagree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 McCray did not get cheated out of the finals. He just got beat. It is different when your dreams are shatterd because of bs reasons. He did not get the chance to prove himself it was taken away by a bad coaching decision. We need to stop this situation from ever happening again. I can already see teams taking fake injuries into the state tournement for years to come. I will call it as I see it and this kid was not hurt. He was cheated out of the finals by the draw. He still acted respectfully and won with class and in his lone loss this year, lost with class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 He may have lost by the draw but he still lost to an opponent. Vlahos didn't get a chance in the finals because he was cheated in the semis. He didn't get beat by a wrestler he got beat by a coaches trying to cheat the system. Which they did successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngone Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Then tell me why when he wins he has no problem shaking a coach's hand? Who cares if a kid's dream is shattered as you want to put it? Zac's dream was shattered after wrestling McMurray and he still went over and shook the Portage coach's hand. Character is shown in many different ways in this sport and your true character comes out when things do not go your way. He lost the SS final and I remember him shaking the Portage Coaches had. And I am pretty (sure not 100%) he shook McCray's coaches hand, if not its cause his mind wasn't right. He isn't a bad sport it was an all around bad situation. It was the manner in which he lost that was so disheartening. In McCray's situation, he got beat fair and square by Mcmurray, and no controversy. There is no comparison between the two situations. Plus if you want to get all ralled up over shaking hands I don't remember Willis walking over and shaking the Harrison coaches hand either. I know of full teams that never shake the coaches hand after a match. Every year we wrestle New Castle they never shake hands with coaches after a match. Shaking hands isn't a rule and its not required so i don't understand the grief with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 McCray did not get cheated out of the finals. He just got beat. It is different when your dreams are shatterd because of bs reasons. He did not get the chance to prove himself it was taken away by a bad coaching decision. We need to stop this situation from ever happening again. I can already see teams taking fake injuries into the state tournement for years to come. I will call it as I see it and this kid was not hurt. Obviously you haven't seen very many decades of the tnmt. ;D Remeber, if it weren't for the illegal move this situation never happens. As a matter of fact, if a kid fakes and injury while in near-fall its an additional pt. Sorry your fella lost and it would be best if all matches were decided by the actions of the participants, but there are rules and they must be enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 He lost the SS final and I remember him shaking the Portage Coaches had. And I am pretty (sure not 100%) he shook McCray's coaches hand, if not its cause his mind wasn't right. He isn't a bad sport it was an all around bad situation. It was the manner in which he lost that was so disheartening. In McCray's situation, he got beat fair and square by Mcmurray, and no controversy. There is no comparison between the two situations. Plus if you want to get all ralled up over shaking hands I don't remember Willis walking over and shaking the Harrison coaches hand either. I know of full teams that never shake the coaches hand after a match. Every year we wrestle New Castle they never shake hands with coaches after a match. Shaking hands isn't a rule and its not required so i don't understand the grief with it. I am 100% certain that he did not shake McCray's coach's hand. I guess we can add yet another excuse to the book. This thread is full of excuses, yet never owning up to your actions. I could write a book on excuses just in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finderskeepers Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 We have heard on this site from Tom Clark (?Grecoref?), a referee who witnessed all the matside interactions and decision-making. He has stated in no uncertain terms that Willis and his coaches CLEARLY wanted to finish wrestling Vlahos, but their wishes unequivocally overruled by the IHSAA medical people. We have also read from an athletic trainer that a numb extremity, which Willis had, is a reason to overrule a wrestler's and his coaches' desire to finish a match. We also have read that Willis, was seen to tell Vlahos, ?I?m sorry. I didn?t want to win this way.? These are facts. Folks, there are people on this board who, if Willis were Mother Teresa and his coaches were Jesus Christ, and God himself posted exactly what Tom Clark posted ? these people would still argue that Willis and his coaches had ?laid down? purposefully and calculatedly. People like this cannot be reasoned with. It is in their wiring, their hard-drive. Live video and audio, if it existed, of the entire matside evaluation would not change their mind?s view of what happened. They have their view of the world and no amount of reason can change it. The only way you win, if you can call it that, is by walking away. In that spirit, I propose we let this thread die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grappledn81 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 VLAHOS U SUCK ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creampuff12 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 didn't Vlahos lose the 3rd place match? It was pretty clear from my viewpoint that the champion was the best at 160 and as dominant as anybody all night regardless of class. Still Vlahos deffinitely wouldnt have been beaten 9-0 it would have been a much better match. But congrats Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 He was cheated out of the finals by the draw. He still acted respectfully and won with class and in his lone loss this year, lost with class. I'm not sure an inanimate object, "the draw", can "cheat". Cheating implies knowingly doing something against the rules. Not sure that can happen. Lots of wrestlers get unfortunate draws. And that's what this may have been: unfortunate but not cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Wasn't Vlahos v McMurray match 7-0? McMurray was winning the title ethier way. You guys can say what you think about Willis laying down. But like I stated in my previous post of it being the doctor call is a 100 precent fact the match end 1-0 Vlahos was never winning that match. Vlahos should have been upset it was a bad situation but you have to compose yourself bad mouthing a kid on the stand is dumb and for you to say it did matter about 3rd or 4th because he lost his dream I'm guessing everyone there except the 14 who won lost their dream too and most of them acted with the class and respect that we pride out self on as indiana wrestlers or coaches. And as for my earlier post i wasn't saying Vlahos was on the team but am saying if it is the same staff you can cry foul if you did the samething to some else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckm Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 McCray did not get cheated out of the finals. He just got beat. It is different when your dreams are shatterd because of bs reasons. He did not get the chance to prove himself it was taken away by a bad coaching decision. We need to stop this situation from ever happening again. I can already see teams taking fake injuries into the state tournement for years to come. I will call it as I see it and this kid was not hurt. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought you said earlier that you weren't there? If so how can you "call it as you see it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I'm not sure an inanimate object, "the draw", can "cheat". Cheating implies knowingly doing something against the rules. Not sure that can happen. Lots of wrestlers get unfortunate draws. And that's what this may have been: unfortunate but not cheating. Pretty sure Y2 was just making a point that everyone that loses has to deal with some sort of unfortunate circumstances. I don't think, heck I am almost certain he was not implying that McCray was in any way "cheated" out of his chance to wrestle in the finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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