ISWA Should Consider This Format

[WaltHarris]

Check out how Michigan presents its schedule: http://www.mywaywrestling.com/schedule/2010%20Tournaments/2010%20schedule.htm

 

I really like the format and would recommend the ISWA consider presenting our schedule in a similar fashion by region.  One issue we face in Indiana is many tournaments around Indy, yet moderate to no tournaments in other regions.  

 

This isn't the ISWA's fault.  I know the ISWA examines each weekend carefully to avoid conflicts (both between HS, MS and holidays), but also regional conflicts as well.  More importantly, the ISWA needs people to set up and host tournaments; no one volunteers, then no tournament.

 

Presenting a schedule in a regional format may show folks clearly what areas of the state need to volunteer more.

 

 

[WaltHarris]

This weekend is a good example.  There are 3 tourneys in Indianapolis (Avon, Greenwood, Butler U.) and none anywhere else.  Yes, this is an extreme example b/c HS state is in Indianapolis this weekend. 

 

If we look more broadly, think about how many tournaments there are for wrestlers in the Northeastern part of the state.  Very few.  A new format to present the same schedule optimistically might open some folks eyes.

[DTJB]

In its allignment with MYWA, our state's organization, HYWA, is currently formatting itself in the same manner.  As the organization grows, districts will be established to meet the needs of wrestling in Indiana.  Each distritct will be responsible for helping grow wrestling in their portion of the state.  Kids will have the opprotunity to compete in their region to qualify for state tournaments, or compete in other district to seek different competition.  Basically, its a pretty streamlined, efficient process that Michigan has developed, and HYWA is currently attempting to develop.

 

http://www.hywaywrestling.com/

[TheGenerealsDad]

I grew up in Indiana and now live in Michigan and have a son wrestling in the MYWAY tournaments.  I didn't believe our club president when he told me how much better and more organized MYWAY tournaments are than ISWA tournaments until I went to a couple and then tried an ISWA tournament again.  There is a huge difference not just in the scheduling of tournaments into regions, but in how efficiently ran the tournaments are.  There are ever increasing numbers of clubs from northern Indiana crossing the line each week to wrestle in the MYWAY tournaments because they know they will get done much sooner than the ISWA tournaments and get just as many matches. 

 

The main reason for this is mat side pairings.  I am suprised every tournament does not do this.  Don't get me wrong, I am sure some ISWA tournaments do but in my opinion they all should.  They also split the age groups into morning and afternoon sessions with the younger kids starting early and the older kids starting at 1PM.  That gets us out of the tournaments around 2pm with my son being a younger and being in a very large weight class.  They have made moves recently to make the tournament more evenly split between the morning and afternoon sessions which is helping speed it up even more.  MYWAY also offers satellite weigh-ins near our school (rotates between schools) every Saturday so we don't have to show up on Sunday morning until around 9 am.

 

I hope HYWAY takes off in Indiana and adopts the way MYWAY runs.  I think you would all find it much better.  I have heard parents saying they will never go to another tournament in Indiana after they have gotten use to the MYWAY structure.  I am very close to agreeing - I would only go to ISWA after the MYWAY state tournament if we decide to get some extra tournaments in.  Michigan has very few free-style tournaments - about 1 in the whole state per weekend from what I have seen.

[WaltHarris]

Very interesting! I was unaware of many of these facts and I greatly appreciate you sharing the info.

 

I've held two strong opinions for many years.  First, our tournaments in Indiana take way too long.  Matside pairing was critical if we didn't want to lose kids.  Second, when the ISWA was heavy-handedly push by USAW into adding lots of Folk tourneys, that FS & GR participants would decrease. 

[WaltHarris]

Kind of funny for us old timers.  I remember in the old days (early 1980s), we had 2 Indiana organizations.  AAU ran some folkstyle tourneys and ISWA ran the FS & GR tourneys.  By the mid-1990s, the only AAU tournament left was the AAU folkstyle state at Arsenal Tech, which I think the last year it was held (around 1994?) had like 2-3 kids per weight class at best.  The AAU's problem, at least from my perspective, was the ISWA was blowing them away in terms of organization, momentum and reward.

 

Funny how things might possibly change.  With ISWA tournaments taking a lifetime to complete, they could be the ones facing extinction like the AAU.  I hope that doesn't happen, though, b/c I like my friends at the ISWA.  

 

Of course,  I would love to see the ISWA get out of the folkstyle business completely, and get back to the organization's true roots which is FS & GR.  I honestly believe the ISWA was a vastly superior organization back when it did just focus of FS & GR.

[Midwest Wrestling Fanpage]

Kind of funny for us old timers.  I remember in the old days (early 1980s), we had 2 Indiana organizations.  AAU ran some folkstyle tourneys and ISWA ran the FS & GR tourneys.  By the mid-1990s, the only AAU tournament left was the AAU folkstyle state at Arsenal Tech, which I think the last year it was held (around 1994?) had like 2-3 kids per weight class at best.  The AAU's problem, at least from my perspective, was the ISWA was blowing them away in terms of organization, momentum and reward.

 

Funny how things might possibly change.  With ISWA tournaments taking a lifetime to complete, they could be the ones facing extinction like the AAU.  I hope that doesn't happen, though, b/c I like my friends at the ISWA.  

 

Of course,  I would love to see the ISWA get out of the folkstyle business completely, and get back to the organization's true roots which is FS & GR.  I honestly believe the ISWA was a vastly superior organization back when it did just focus of FS & GR.

How would you rate the competion level between the two?

[Lionheart]

Mr. Harris,

      You are making a very good point.  I grew up in that time frame when we had AAU, USA, and the ISWA.  I remember that the AAU Junior Nationals were HUGH.  The USA nationals were not as big.  The ISWA was a new breed all together.  They did start out as FS and GR and the tournaments went much smoother and we had more tourneys all over the state.  When I first got started I think we wrestled two or three times at Western Boone High School, two or three times at Tech High School, we always went to Jasper(I loved this tourney because we got to stay at the Holiday Inn and swim in the pool and get to see my aunt and uncle),  there were a few other tourneys in the state that were very far away for us.  The State final was ALWAYS at TECH.  They did the best job they could.  Can anyone remember the Christian Park Wrestling Club?  Man did they have some studs in that club.  At that time I think they were the Premier club in Indy.  I remember when we had a National Tournament in Indy it was at the Convention Center.  That same year AAU still had their Grand Nationals in Nebraska.  Alot of things have changed over the years.  A very good friend of mine is one of the people that has started the HYWAY program in Indiana.  He was a member of the Western Boone wrestling club as a kid and he has seen it all as well.  He thinks the same as you do Mr. Harris, let the ISWA be in charge of the FS and GR and let them take care of the folkstyle.  I also think it would be really neat if someone would host a Tourney just for Coaches and let their wrestlers coach THEM.  That would be awesome and I think it would teach a good lesson to the wrestlers.

[meveler]

Living near the Indiana/Michigan border we normally attend three or four of the MYWAY tournaments a year mixed in with our ISWA wrestling.  In addition to the scheduling tools available on the MYWAY website they also post results within a day or so of the event on the same site.  This is what draws us to these tournaments:

 

1)  Off site satellite weigh-ins; typically located halfway between our location and the host school the night before - On site weigh ins are conducted the day of the event, however they end an hour and a half before the event starts, which means the morning session of a split tournament starts at the scheduled time.

2)  Licensed officials on all mats all day long.

3)  Mat side pairings - wrestle all day on one mat

4)  Similar competition as we see in ISWA

5)  New opponents

6)  MYWAY wrestles for true second at all events ( If you get third and did not meet the second place finisher throughout the day you have the opportunity to wrestle for second )

7)  No card required

8)  Split start times

 

The last couple of events that we have attended have been capped at 550 participants and have had split start times.  We still wrestle more ISWA events than MYWAY events, however they do seem more organized.  There are always exceptions to the rule and we have been to a couple of these events that left something to be desired.  The Penn Folkstyle tournament earlier this year incorporated some of these same ideas and was by far the best ISWA event that we have attended this year. 

[WaltHarris]

I am a retired HS coach.  However, I still take my grandson to folk and FS tournaments.  I have grown very disappointed (well, actually angry) at several ISWA tournaments over the last few years.  I always volunteer either as table help or as an official at these tournaments.  So I don't want to hear any b.s. from ISWA people about "get off your tail and get involved."

 

About half of the ISWA tournaments I take my grandson to just take forever to complete.  I mean, we are getting home at 8-9 pm sometimes.  At Jimtown two years ago, my grandson weighed-in at 8 am and didn't wrestle his first match until 2PM!!! That's crazy.  More importantly, it's a solid recipe for destroying a child's interest in the sport of wrestling.

 

I've been involved with Indiana wrestling since the 1960s as a high school kid and the 1970s as a coach.  The ISWA has done a ton to improve wrestling in the state.  The thing is, ever since the ISWA was pressured by USAW to implement a folkstyle season around 1998(?), things began to go off-kilter for ISWA.

[WaltHarris]

I really hope the ISWA takes an honest look at itself as an organization.  Ask:

What have we historically done well?

What should we focus on long term?

Has the addition of folk to our schedule crippled our former achievements with FS/GR?

Are we truly following the traditional John Hurrle saying of "Do it for the kids" by keeping children at tournaments from 7am until 8pm?

 

The ISWA is a great organization, but I would describe the last few years as 'wandering in the desert trying to find its self" period.  Based on the talented people on the ISWA board, I do think it has the ability to bounce back.  They just need a new strategy that is abundantly clear to membership and well supported.

 

[Jimtown 138]

I am a retired HS coach.  However, I still take my grandson to folk and FS tournaments.  I have grown very disappointed (well, actually angry) at several ISWA tournaments over the last few years.  I always volunteer either as table help or as an official at these tournaments.  So I don't want to hear any b.s. from ISWA people about "get off your tail and get involved."

 

About half of the ISWA tournaments I take my grandson to just take forever to complete.  I mean, we are getting home at 8-9 pm sometimes.  At Jimtown two years ago, my grandson weighed-in at 8 am and didn't wrestle his first match until 2PM!!! That's crazy.  More importantly, it's a solid recipe for destroying a child's interest in the sport of wrestling.

 

I've been involved with Indiana wrestling since the 1960s as a high school kid and the 1970s as a coach.  The ISWA has done a ton to improve wrestling in the state.  The thing is, ever since the ISWA was pressured by USAW to implement a folkstyle season around 1998(?), things began to go off-kilter for ISWA.

 

Two years ago, I'm pretty sure at Jimtown a guy was having a heart attack in the main gym before the event even started, so that might have caused a problem...

[MattM]

We need to find a time/season to focus on one style and then anther one to focus on the other style.  Right now the schedule seems so bunch together with the end of the high school and middle school season and not as much is getting done in many areas to get athletes trained and going to events.

[GrecoCoach]

WaltHarris,

 

I agree that matside pairing helps a tournament run more smoothly.  That is why many of the ISWA local tournaments are using them now.  I disagree with your belief that the ISWA is "wandering" and "off-kilter".  The ISWA has been focused on the kids and improving wrestling in Indiana for over 30 years.  Times change and the ISWA has changed along with it.  Folkstyle wasn't "pressured" onto us by USAWrestling as you obviously think.  The demand for it from the state's membership (wrestlers and coaches) caused the ISWA to make a huge change.  (Along with loosened rules from the IHSAA about off-season workouts/competitions)

 

Also, I remember wrestling in local tournaments until midnight or later when there were over 1000 wrestlers at a tournament.  Getting home at 7-8 o'clock now doesn't seem as bad.  Tournaments starting late is a problem, but it's a local tournament's problem, not the ISWA's fault.  Many tournaments are using only faxed weigh-ins, but there are complaints with that as well.  To put it simply, changes are difficult and take a lot of consideration for all the things that will be affected.

 

You are more than welcome to attend an ISWA meeting to share your thoughts.  Otherwise, you are just complaining to nobody in particular and are not really trying to fix the problem.  (Possably just to bash the ISWA for your own agenda)

 

 

MattM,

 

I agree with you about the bunched up schedule between Folkstyle and Freestyle/Greco.  Unfortunately, the timing of high school state along with the national freestyle and Greco tournaments that kids have to qualify for makes things very difficult to plan.  I really miss the once great freestyle season and agree that our wrestlers going out to nationals aren't getting all of the preparations they need.

 

The only solution I can see working is to move the ISWA folkstyle season and state tournaments to the fall.  However, that would be another huge change that would be a challenge to implement quickly and include a large amount of resistance.

 

Jake Harreld

ISWA Cadet Director

[WaltHarris]

Jake, I remember you as a wrestler.  You were quite good.  Son, I have no agenda.  

 

My only hopes are having fun with my grandson at wrestling and making sure future Indiana wrestlers have reasonable length tournaments so we don't hurt wrestling.  I am sure you are a good kid, Jake, as evidence by the fact that a young man like yourself spends so much time volunteering with ISWA and the kids.

 

However, the response posted cuts right to the heart of issue.  Every time someone raises the issue of tournaments taking a long time to complete, the 4 standard ISWA responses come out:

1) Don't blame ISWA, its the local tourney's fault.

2) We used to go to midnight; be grateful its only 8pm nowadays.

3) Wrestling tourneys take a long time, so just get used to it.

4) Join/volunteer more and then we'll allow you to complain. (But for 20 years I've seen that coaching/officiating on the local level is NOT merely enough volunteering to be respected.)

 

In 10 years, I have not heard one new or innovative response from the ISWA.  One of the most powerful words in the English language is "sorry."  Never once have I heard anyone from the ISWA say they were sorry for the length of a tournament, taking away family time, or failing to force local tourneys to update their format.

 

If there were two things I wish the ISWA staff would comprehend it is:

1) Kids do quit wrestling because of the outrageous time length of tournaments.

2) 90% of the families at tournaments are NOT wrestling lifers like you, me and the ISWA board. They are families and kids who want to wrestle for a few hours on a Saturday and then go home.  

 

Plenty of states went to 4-man round-robin tournaments a decade ago. Yes, I have seen a few of them in Indiana, like Munster, but that is the exception. There are plenty of other format options also.  Sadly, I think the ISWA will continue down this path disengagement.  And once a large percentage of people have abandoned the organization only then will it perform a needed self evaluation, much too late.

[mikev]

MYWAY tournaments without a doubt blow away the ISWA tournaments. They are ULTRA efficient and well run. We'll be at both Hobart and Jimtown this weekend and other than some good competition at both, I dread being there. PLEASE ISWA, take some lessons from MYWAY. They know how to get it done. We have been at some ISWA's that actually take till evening to get over with! Weigh in at 7am and then wait 2-3 hours to wrestle if you're lucky - and then another 2-3 hours or so between matches - it's ridiculous. Most kids (especially the younger ones) can't keep their attention span that long. Another place they could take lessons from is Whitko. Their tournament this winter, although small, went so fast I couldn't beleive it. One match after another, no breaks. Kids ad to stay by their mat and be ready to go. Very well run.

[MattM]

When we have some of this event historically getting very crowded and going very long I'm not sure why they don't stagger the start time of the different age groups.  Run all of the youth ages at the start of the day and get them or most of them out of the way.  That way you can run half-mats or event quad-mats for the real little ones and be fine.  Then run the older groups later on in they day with some on half-mats and the older ones on full mat possibly.  This would cut down a lot on crowds (but the event still will get the same profits), and will move some of the wieght classes along withouth having a huge gap in between matches (making it much more friendly for wrestlers and parent alike).  Some events don't have this problem but if your going to be there past 6pm why not have you arrive later in the say and get the same number of matches in instead of having you arrive at 8 and have a match every 2 hour or longer.  Seems like it would be less stressful on event organizers and table help too.  Heck they may even have time for a break in between the two age groups if the early session runs smoothly.  Yeah some groups may have to attend both session because of the age groups but its still no different than if than we have now with them being there close to 12 hours straight.  Just seems like a good way to aviod the huge cluster of issue the coordinators, wrestlers, and parents are dealing with at these historically crowded events. 

[TheGenerealsDad]

I think it sounds easier for Indiana to start moving toward HYWAY than to ask the ISWA to implement all the advantages that MYWAY has.  I am not part of MYWAY, I only am familiar with how well organized it is and think it could help Indiana wrestling.  Cards in Michigan for MYWAY are $15 for the season also compared to the $30 or $40 USA wrestling card for ISWA.  When HYWAY takes over ( I think it is only a matter of time ) you will wonder why it took so long.  Do a little research on HYWAY and / or MYWAY and see what you think.