XCard Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Also, Phillips was up a comfortable 17-8, with 20 sec left an chose to let Moss up. Then was tossed to his back making the final score 17-14. I believe he made a mistake in choosing to go neutral with that short a time left. I feel that if he chose to ride him out, he could have an the final would of been 17-8 an this talk would all be for not. Good luck at state for everyone, mostly those from the New Castle SS. This brings to mind a very interseting discussion I have every year with people. I know a lot of guys like to cut/kick/let up their opponents, but I feel that this stategy can be very risky as you move on later in the tournament. Especially when you have a decent lead, why risk being thrown? Just thought I would get some thoughts from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blmont17 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 This is a very good thought..... but i honestly believe if you are taking down an opponent at will and can't turn him you might want to cut him and try to extend your lead. However, if you already have a decent 5-6 point lead and there's only twenty seconds i would personally just ride him out. But some kids have that attack mantality and in my opinion there's nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 This is a very good thought..... but i honestly believe if you are taking down an opponent at will and can't turn him you might want to cut him and try to extend your lead. However, if you already have a decent 5-6 point lead and there's only twenty seconds i would personally just ride him out. But some kids have that attack mantality and in my opinion there's nothing wrong with that. It comes down to how good you are from each position. If you are weakest on top, you probably should cut your opponent toward the end of the match with a good lead. If your strength is mat wrestling, no way do you cut your opponent in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyGonzo Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 The worst situation of this I've seen was in the state quarterfinals in 2001. Nick Himes was losing 5-2 with something like 9 seconds left on the clock in the 3rd period and the Bellmont guy he was wrestling let him up to make the score 5-3. Himes quickly threw the Bellmont guy and got a takedown right at the end to tie it up. Himes hit another throw to win in OT... If the Bellmont guy had just rode him out or even given up a reversal, he would have been in the semi's... This is a perfect example of cutting being a risky move late in the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Cut at your own risk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 The worst situation of this I've seen was in the state quarterfinals in 2001. Nick Himes was losing 5-2 with something like 9 seconds left on the clock in the 3rd period and the Bellmont guy he was wrestling let him up to make the score 5-3. Himes quickly threw the Bellmont guy and got a takedown right at the end to tie it up. Himes hit another throw to win in OT... If the Bellmont guy had just rode him out or even given up a reversal, he would have been in the semi's... This is a perfect example of cutting being a risky move late in the match. That's pretty bad strategy. The only way I can see cutting in that situation is if you are a bad enough rider that your coach is concerned that you'll get reversed to your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allaroundfan165 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 My saying is win and get off the mat especially during tournament time like when joe kieffer cut his opponent at regional and got pinned. The only time I can say it is ok or good strategy is when you know the guy is a phenom on top and you are great on your feet you may want to pad a lead to make sure if you get turned it will not lose you the match otherwise in the tournament get off the mat as quickly as possible to much can go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARSMAN Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 In my head I always have the mentality that especially when we are outclassed on the mat to let the kid up. I feel like a throw can be easily avoided for ten to fifteen seconds especailly when you absolutley know that it is coming. Someone posted earlier that they were letting up with twenty or more seconds left in the match or period and i would say that is too much, but i feel like as a good wrestler in a position to win the match you ought to be able to defend yourself on your feet for ten seconds. We drill like this every week for this kind of position in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-train Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 you also could get reversed to your back. 5 points is 5 points! cutting a guy seems like the safer bet; don't tie up, keep your distance, circle. if you are up by more than a few points, then by all means, STALL!!! the bottom line is that anything could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 My philosophy has always been if you can pin the kid than you should go ahead and do it within a reasonable amount of time. If not then find another way to keep scoring points in the match. The takedown clinic style I am not a fan of unless that is your only possible option for scoring in a match. If my wrestlers completely out matches someone I tell them to "work the kinks out" of a few moves to prepare for later matches but then go for the pin. If that involved a few takedowns then that is understandable, but not to the extend of just cutting someone over an over without even attempting other moves. Sure, if they can not get the pin or even the turn then I'm fine with cutting since its the only way to score. No sense taking up to much clock time and energy riding on top and not getting any point out of it. However, if they can get the turn and start working a pin I do not see a need to continuously cut the wrestler and taking them down the entire match. Sure the risk factor of getting thrown is one issue I have with a takedown clinic. The senseless humiliation of a much lesser wrestler that everyone knows you could have turned and pinned at any point is another. The idea that working on moves in a match situation to improve for the future should mean improving of other positions you need to work is another. The idea you need to work on takedown to improve for the future doesn't work for me to much when by getting the first 2 or 3 takedowns with ease you are obviously very good at takedowns already and your opponent isn't putting up to much of a resistance to help you improve any more than a practice partner would. I did not see the Phillips vs Moss match to comment on if it was a good reason to cut him or not based on my logic above. However, with a huge lead late in the match it seems a smart stratagy to put yourself in the least risky position possible because you know the other guy is only looking for the big "whammy" move at that point. Obviously Phillips or his coaches felt it was OK to cut him and in retrospect that may not have been the best choice at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCWrestling Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 My saying is win and get off the mat especially during tournament time like when joe kieffer cut his opponent at regional and got pinned. The only time I can say it is ok or good strategy is when you know the guy is a phenom on top and you are great on your feet you may want to pad a lead to make sure if you get turned it will not lose you the match otherwise in the tournament get off the mat as quickly as possible to much can go wrong. Did kieffer cut him? I thought it was 0-0 when it happned. Kieffer was far more superior on his feet than the Ben Davis kid, but the Ben Davis kid had a plan and he executed it well. Wrestle that match another 10 times and Kieffer wins by either pin or tech all 10 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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