Class This!!!!

[duck_and_run]

Ok here is my problem I just did a study with all the sectionals.  By your own arguements class wrestling would produce better wrestling because of more individual acomplishments.  Why do we have sectionals where the best team are ranked 109, 95, 85, and 71.  You would think that the individual achievements in the sectionals would make wrestlers flock to these programs but it hasn't happend.  Your theory is flat out shot down.  The only thing that can fix wrestling in these areas are dedicated individuals who want to see success with there wrestling programs.  

 

Also whats the reason your able to compete with Carrol now?  Maybe its those RTC's and summer program you just tryed to bash.  Maybe its because you have to communities support.  You have previously said the fans are  all over the place now for wrestling meets.  

 

As far as what you personally gain it could be as simple as bragging rights.  Even assistant coaches get joy out of bragging up there teams.

[base]

2.  Marketing.  Basketball is still the king in Indiana, why do wrestling programs try to compare themselves in terms of crowds/attendance to basketball or football.  Football games are once a week, on a weekend night (Friday) and are therefore an "event" much more so than a weekday wrestling meet would be.  If you are familiar with any of the semi-pro teams around Indiana, what do they do to set themselves apart and develop a following?  Marketing, is my opinion.  Have a "pack the gym" night with free admission, strobe lights, heavy metal music....whatever it takes to develop a following at your school.  I see it as the only way to get non-wrestling fans introduced to the sport, and hopefully they will learn to love the excitement, energy, and adrenaline rush of a great wrestling meet.

If you want to advance the sport of wrestling, I still contend that you need to make it a program that kids at the high school and middle school level want to be a part of the action.  There needs to be a buzz created about wrestling.  It needs to be the "cool" thing to do.

 

Otherwise, I think the majority of today's attention-deficit, texting/video game playing teens are going to find better, easier ways as an outlet of their energy than working their butt off in the wrestling room night after night.

[Y2CJ41]

Can you give me an idea how you would market a program that has little chance of winning sectionals and gets a kid to state once every five years.  While the basketball team competes for sectional and regional titles year in and year out.  Say for instance I have a powerhouse in my sectional like Perry Meridian or Mishawaka, and honestly it would be a 1 in 20 years team that everything would have to fall into place for the team to win.  How do you honestly market that?

[Y2CJ41]

Ok here is my problem I just did a study with all the sectionals.  By your own arguements class wrestling would produce better wrestling because of more individual acomplishments.  Why do we have sectionals where the best team are ranked 109, 95, 85, and 71.  You would think that the individual achievements in the sectionals would make wrestlers flock to these programs but it hasn't happend.  Your theory is flat out shot down.  The only thing that can fix wrestling in these areas are dedicated individuals who want to see success with there wrestling programs. 

 

Also whats the reason your able to compete with Carrol now?  Maybe its those RTC's and summer program you just tryed to bash.  Maybe its because you have to communities support.  You have previously said the fans are  all over the place now for wrestling meets. 

 

As far as what you personally gain it could be as simple as bragging rights.  Even assistant coaches get joy out of bragging up there teams.

Wow, that is a great study, you should go into research full time.

 

The reason we compete with Carroll right now is because we match-up with them very well.  Two of their best wrestlers have the privilege of wrestling two of our better wrestlers where we have had the slight upper hand.  Along with other good match-ups for us that make a huge difference.  Last year we beat them in the dual meet, but lost to them at sectional, because they had more depth than us. 

 

I would gain bragging rights, wow, that is something very huge to gain.  I cannot fathom my life if I had the ability to brag about the wrestling team to everyone I meet.

[davit]

The main goal of the smaller schools is to get better, build a stronger program, try and close that gap with the best schools in the state (big, medium, or small). 

 

One seemingly logical avenue (coming from a small school) would be to class the TEAM Portion only.  It may draw more kids to wrestling if there is that chance to compete on a team that makes it into the state tournament, which in turn may help wrestling numbers.  The more numbers, the better quality over the years as they develop which makes for more competitive rooms, more competetive teams, and better over all wrestling in Indiana.

 

All schools no matter the size have quality kids if the work in the off season.  The problem is how many quality kids can you get.

 

[SlickRodz]

Y2 and Karl,

 

After giving this thread much thought and 4 bourbons  last night, I have a couple of questions.

 

1. The problem that small schools have is getting enough athletes out for wrestling. Is it your contention that by going to a class system, that in itself will increase the size of your room? If so how?

 

2. If I have #1 wrong is it your contention that the smaller classes have fewer weight classes in order to level the playing field?

 

3. Is there data as to the population of High School wrestling for Ohio, Ill, and Mich pre and post Class Introduction.

 

Unlike some of the horses $#^'s on here I want to look at this issue and understand your side. If it would increase numbers in the long term, who knows. I am just not convinced it would do anything but divide a championship.

[cbower]

Big school,Little school it dosen't matter! Last I checked team score was by indiviual success!! I coach at a Big school, we get 45 out and 20 quit before Christmas because it's to tuff to train or they don't want to give commitment.In the last 3 years we've got 5 to Indy.It's not about size or the quanity in numbers,it's the quality you develop in the room ! Hard work that everyone puts in year round is what pays off, the countless hours of commitment from your wrestlers and your staff,the support of your parents,creativing a feeder program from your junior high programs.You have to play the cards your dealt.

[Y2CJ41]

I guess the small schools just don't work hard.  It is a shame that they don't work as hard or they could be just as good as the big schools.

[base]

Can you give me an idea how you would market a program that has little chance of winning sectionals and gets a kid to state once every five years.  While the basketball team competes for sectional and regional titles year in and year out.  Say for instance I have a powerhouse in my sectional like Perry Meridian or Mishawaka, and honestly it would be a 1 in 20 years team that everything would have to fall into place for the team to win.  How do you honestly market that?

Joe, that is a good question.  Here is my take on it.

 

I think post-season success is only one factor of marketing a wrestling program.  I'm not the coach at a small school, so of course all my ideas are from "theory" only.  I realize you are out there working in the real world as a small program coach, and you may legitimately say that these ideas are good in theory, but not practical.

 

Here's just some ideas off the top of my head how I would approach it:

 

1.  DEFINITELY begin with the youth/feeder program.  The best way to ensure a strong high school program is to shore up the feeder program.  Having some little kids myself, I can tell you that at the elementary age, they have absolutely no concept of whether or not the high school program is qualifying kids for state, or whether or not the team is advancing out of sectionals.  I would work with the other local youth athletics (football, soccer, baseball, even basketball) and build a good relationship with those coaches/league directors.  Ask them to encourage kids to come out and try wrestling.  They know the kids, the kids usually trust them.  They can be a huge ally for steering more kids to give wrestling a shot.

 

For the youth wrestlers, I would have several clinics that are free for any kids to come out and try wrestling.  I think many parents would be willing to take the kids to try it out if there wasn't an immediate upfront financial commitment like many of the youth clubs seem to be (you have to join USA wrestling and the local club) Make the clinics a lot of fun, mixing in wrestling-related games while you are showing the kids a few moves.  I think that the majority of 2nd-5th grade kids LOVE the idea of having the knowledge to grab another kid and be able to wrestle them to the ground.  I would personally not make these free clinics overly-technical.  But I might have a couple of your skilled high school wrestlers to come in and do some live wrestling (and they better be VERY active) while you explain briefly how points are scored, what are the three periods, etc.  Can you get some time in the local elementary school PE classes to have a couple of wrestlers come with you and give a demo, then show all the PE kids how to do a double leg and a half nelson to pin someone?

 

Do some creative promotions to get the kids to come out and watch the high school matches.  You can pick up little marketing gimmicks online (oriental trading company) in bulk prices for next to nothing.  Make up some tie-dye tshirts and throw them out into the audience.  Anything to get people to talk about it the next day at school and come back for more.  What do high school kids want -- somewhere they can go for cheap, hang out with friends, and act like a fool.  Look at how many college basketball programs have attracted a rowdy student section -- they have a designated section like the Paint Crew (Purdue) or the Cameron Crazies (Duke).  Buy them some hair paint, again have t-shirts made up, give them something "cool" to be a part of.  Can you think of any way to have a "halftime" or some break in the action, and invite elementary kids to come down on the mat and do something (not sure what) -- like they let kids shoot freethrows at halftime of basketball?

 

Have one match a year (preferably one that you are pretty sure your team will win) where you have a "pack the house" night.  Reduced or free tickets or let them in free if they bring a can of food for a local food pantry.  Offer that your assistant coach will shave his head if the team wins by a set amount of points, heck let some elementary kids take clippers and buzz the hair right there in the gym.  If you can dim the lights in the gym and put a single lamp down over the mat (similar to the state finals), do it -- that is a cool environment.  There's got to be some kids out there that will see one of the kids on your team score a pin, hear the crowd hopefully go WILD for him, see his hand raised, and think to himself "woah, I want to be a part of that!"

 

Again, just throwing out some random ideas

[tyandky]

 Offer that your assistant coach will shave his head if the team wins by a set amount of points, heck let some elementary kids take clippers and buzz the hair right there in the gym.  

I love this idea..............

Matt Schoettle getting his head shaved by one of our little ones

[Bash513]

Shocking....13 pages of "discussion" and the board is still divided on this issue.  At some point shouldn't we agree to disagree and talk about something else?  The fact of the matter is, whether or not classing would be good for wrestling or any other "individual" sport in Indiana, it does not appear to be an option the IHSAA is open to discussing right now.  Shouldn?t we focus on other ways to improve the sport (e.g. wrestlebacks at different levels of the state tournament) that may be more immediately feasible then wasting our time arguing over something that is not likely to happen even if we all agree on it?

[ENoblewrestling]

This is just my two cents on the issue of getting kids out at a small school.  I coach at Churubusco, and I was lucky enough to come into a program that had alot of individual success but not alot of numbers.  This past season we had 27 wrestlers for the entire year (we started with aroubnd 34).  Our middle school has around 35 kids out right now.  I think that the key to us getting numbers out is that we have a school that has every program working together.  Each program lifts the same weights (BFS) each coach encourages their atheletes to compete in other sports.  I would say 90 percent of our kids play two to three sports.  Our coaches all work together.  Coach Etzler encourages the football guys to wrestle and play basketball, we encourage our kids to do track or baseball, and it continues year round.  I do not coach football, but I was at the early morning weights for football- but open to all atheletes in the summer.  

Another reason that I beieve that we are able to keep numbers out is because we stress the importance of all of our guys, and we also try and get our J.V. kids alot of matches.  Our guys have about 20 matches each, and we were looking to add matches up until last week.  Look at the JV open dates page, we are on it two or three times looking for matches.  

In the end I think that you need to treat every kid as being inportant, at a small school you never know who will be varsity some day.  You need to work with not fight with your other coaches, and you need to get your kids oppurtunities to wrestle.  Just my two cents  on how to get kids out at a small school.

[KarlHungus]

Y2 and Karl,

 

After giving this thread much thought and 4 bourbons  last night, I have a couple of questions.

 

1. The problem that small schools have is getting enough athletes out for wrestling. Is it your contention that by going to a class system, that in itself will increase the size of your room? If so how?

 

2. If I have #1 wrong is it your contention that the smaller classes have fewer weight classes in order to level the playing field?

 

3. Is there data as to the population of High School wrestling for Ohio, Ill, and Mich pre and post Class Introduction.

 

Unlike some of the horses $#^'s on here I want to look at this issue and understand your side. If it would increase numbers in the long term, who knows. I am just not convinced it would do anything but divide a championship.

 

I like your method of thinking.

 

1.  I think giving schools a realistic shot at post season success would increase numbers.  I don't have any hard data to support that claim but at the small school I coach at we have won a basketball sectional and a football sectional in the last 3 years.  In both cases, there were more athletes going out for that sport the next year.  The basketball team had a freshman/C team schedule for the first time anyone could remember and the football team had a full JV schedule.

 

Probably hard to find data on pre class states as most have been doing it for decades.

[Y2CJ41]

I know in Oregon when they classed it grew the sport there.  They ended up adding many more programs to the point where they had to go from two to four classes.  When they did that the attendance at the state finals more than doubled.  Oregon is a state that is smaller than Indiana, yet found out that classing helped their wrestling programs.