best and worst sectionals and regionals

[bigdanteague]

Do you think they hold the same respect in their state's wrestling community?  Does a small school champ demand the same attention from college coaches that a big school champ does?

 

As an example, one of the comments was about Jimtown's "developmental football league championships".  The general consensus that I perceive in our football community is that the 1A, 2A, and maybe even 3A state championships are considerably less impressive than 4A and 5A.  Football recruiters will scour the rosters of 5A schools and 1-3A rosters have to send their kids info out just for the schools to acknowledge their existence even though the athlete may be even or better.

 

That's what I'm talkin about brotha!!! Preach it!  And yet those little jimmies walk around all high and mighty like their minor league title means anything.  Make me chuckle and vomit a little bit.

[bigdanteague]

some areas are weaker than others the athletes cant control that so i think its cutting them down morally if you guys keep coming at them saying their regional is weak and couldnt make it somewhere else. that is prolly true but its uncalled for to rub it in their faces. they all work hard and put the effort in so they should receive credit instead of being ridiculed for where they live.

 

I think we work harder then Jimtown and we don't get the credit because we play real big boy football at Penn.  They play kiddie ball and get patches and rings

[bigdanteague]

That's not what Mishawaka says...

 

They played to our level last year for the first time in 20 years.  You gotta try harder than that.  I just don't have a clue how anyone at Jimtown or Northwood can call themselves state champs in football when they darn well know that Penn would whip them up and down the field and twice on Sundays.  Bush league psych-out BS.  Ha.  Laughable

[bigdanteague]

Thank you boys for throwin' in that fricassee. I'm a man of large appetite, and even with lunch under my belt, I was feelin' a mite peckish.

 

Well said!

[Galagore]

The question that no one on the classless side will answer is this....if classing does not benefit the sport, then why is it done so often?  If the sport grows best when there is one undisputed champion in each weight class, then why doesn't every state run their tournament that way?  My guess is that wrestling people all over the country care about the health of the sport in their given state....

[bigdanteague]

I'm sure your Penn folk are mighty proud of you! You have some issues dude...

 

On the contrary, I think those that claim a state championship when they know they can't hang with a school down the road are the ones with issues.  I agree with your stance on wrestling.  I just also apply the argument to football as well.

[Y2CJ41]

Do you think they hold the same respect in their state's wrestling community? 

Does it matter if the big school people think they are better than everyone else?  Does that taint Jimtown's championships?  Does that make Jimtown not celebrate their championships or not put banners up or have large pep rallies?

 

Does a small school champ demand the same attention from college coaches that a big school champ does?

A small school champ that does well at the national level will get the attention.  For instance, Andrew Howe was from a small school.  He didn't get a scholarship based on his performances in Indiana, he got noticed because of his national credentials.  If we had 2/3 classes, he would have still been highly recruited.

 

As an example, one of the comments was about Jimtown's "developmental football league championships".  The general consensus that I perceive in our football community is that the 1A, 2A, and maybe even 3A state championships are considerably less impressive than 4A and 5A.  Football recruiters will scour the rosters of 5A schools and 1-3A rosters have to send their kids info out just for the schools to acknowledge their existence even though the athlete may be even or better.

In wrestling it is a lot easier to get recognition being from a small school(in class or non class) because you can go test yourself at the national level.  If you want a DI scholarship, go place at a national level tournament.  You will start getting recognition there very quickly. 

If you are worried about recruiting in Indiana at the DI level you better win three or more titles. 

[davit]

Being a coach of Wrestling and helping out with the Jimtown football team, I can assure you that the coaching staffs (football/wrestling) respect the Penn programs much more than you may think.  I know in wrestling we envy the opportunities Penn has with having so many wrestlers to choose from that can wrestle year round.  We are always fighting baseball, track, etc. because at a small school a good athlete has more of an opportunity to shine in many sports.  

 

From the coaching side of the coin (I can not speak on behalf of the players and fans) just because Jimtown may have won  state championships in year X or Y doesn't mean they thought they could beat Penn's or Warren Central's of the state...believe me...too much respect for the elite programs along with every other program.

 

Jimtown is a school with alot of pride.  The district is only a 3x6 mile rectangle (any kid we get in any sport is a blessing).  The kids are very proud of their accomplishments.  It is a school with alot of "school spirit."  If there were not class football who knows if Jimtown would have won any state titles, but having the opportunity to be the best amongst schools your size has kept many kids coming out, kept the programs numbers and success up, and built a strong tradition (in our class).

 

If wrestling were to have class for at least the team portion we might see our wrestling numbers go up.  Kids just want the opportunity to compete and make a name for themselves.  To be part of something.  If the coaches from small schools had more kids to choose from, the smaller schools would become a more competetive group.  

[duck_and_run]

I am sorry this was not meant to be a class wrestling post.  I was simply trying to show what areas were the best and what areas could use a boost in competition.  I am not a class wrestling guy, and I think the ACAC is the perfect example of why.  In the Fort Wayne area they have 3 top ten programs all that are smaller schools.  It is possible to have an extremly successful program at a small school just ask Matre Dei.  You can say what you want about catholic schools but there are several catholic schools that do not have great teams so it kind of dispells that.  It must mean they are doing other things to achieve what they have.  I think one thing Evansville like all great programs are known for is there summer and youth wrestling.  If we could spread that to the rest of the state the results would show, and competition will be better on a whole.  I also want to repeat I am sorry if I offended anyone

 

[Y2CJ41]

How many sectional championships have those ACAC teams won?  How many state champions have they had? 

[duck_and_run]

Y2 I could say the same thing about most of the big schools in fort wayne or anywhere else.  Just because your big does not mean you are an elete program.  Most good programs have had elementry programs for 20 plus years.  10 years of hard work are great but that may just get the program rolling.  Also I know the ACAC usually has a few placers and they have state champions from a few schools.  I believe AC, Bluffton, Leo, have had champions there may be a lot more.  With everything being said this year the ACAC is at least the second best if not the best conference in northeast Indiana.  I guess we may have a different definition of success.

[Y2CJ41]

State Champions

Adams Central- 1

Leo- 1

Bluffton- 2

Garrett- 0

South Adams- 0

Southern Wells- 0

Woodlan- 0

Heritage-0

 

That really isn't that good.

[MISHCAVEFAN]

They played to our level last year for the first time in 20 years.  You gotta try harder than that.  I just don't have a clue how anyone at Jimtown or Northwood can call themselves state champs in football when they darn well know that Penn would whip them up and down the field and twice on Sundays.  Bush league psych-out BS.  Ha.  Laughable

 

So........you don't think the Mishawka players did not "try hard" to beat Penn??  Does that also mean that the Penn wrestlers have not beeen trying to beat

Mishwaka in wrestling? Get real....

[Scardy94]

I think we work harder then Jimtown and we don't get the credit because we play real big boy football at Penn.  They play kiddie ball and get patches and rings

 

Hahahaha...wow you are ridiculous. Key word in your statement is THINK...you can think all you want, but until you have been in BOTH programs you do not need to say you THINK you work harder than another team. Kiddie ball? Really? I am not from Jimtown or Penn, I am actually more than a couple hours away from both, but what you are saying is a bit ridiculous, and it seems to me you are just trying to bring people down because you are a big school. Get over it, and stop telling us what you THINK b/c we do not care! Stop  :'(

[bigdanteague]

So........you don't think the Mishawka players did not "try hard" to beat Penn??  Does that also mean that the Penn wrestlers have not beeen trying to beat

Mishwaka in wrestling? Get real....

 

The try hard comment was directed at the jimmie guy who was trying to get under my skin.  Nothing but respect for Mishawaka.  They are the standard and we are working to get to that level.  The same as Penn was the standard in football and Mishawaka obviously reached it last year.  Mishawaka being strong in football will only help Penn get better and maybe make both of us more competitive with the Indy powers.  Penn getting stronger in wrestling should do the same for Mishawaka (although they seem to be cruising to a state title this year.)

[Disco]

Y2 I could say the same thing about most of the big schools in fort wayne or anywhere else.  Just because your big does not mean you are an elete program.  Most good programs have had elementry programs for 20 plus years.  10 years of hard work are great but that may just get the program rolling.  Also I know the ACAC usually has a few placers and they have state champions from a few schools.  I believe AC, Bluffton, Leo, have had champions there may be a lot more.  With everything being said this year the ACAC is at least the second best if not the best conference in northeast Indiana.  I guess we may have a different definition of success.

Good point Duck, success in high schools should mean that a school does not have to forfeit a weight class, that the starters have decent mat room partners, that there might be enough school interest that most weights are contended for each year. I just think there is alot more to it than just the standard response of work harder, or you don't put in enough time. There are many definitions of success. I think ACAC teams are successful. As are smaller schools like Southridge, Princeton,Northview, Brown County to name a few. So getting the youth started early in an area, seems to be the common denominator for student interest in high school.

[Galagore]

Could "putting in time" also be defined as participation in a fall and spring sport, participating in an organized lifting program over the summer, and getting yourself to at least one wrestling camp over the summer?  Or does putting in time only mean participating in wrestling-related activities to make yourself better?

[bigdanteague]

Hahahaha...wow you are ridiculous. Key word in your statement is THINK...you can think all you want, but until you have been in BOTH programs you do not need to say you THINK you work harder than another team. Kiddie ball? Really? I am not from Jimtown or Penn, I am actually more than a couple hours away from both, but what you are saying is a bit ridiculous, and it seems to me you are just trying to bring people down because you are a big school. Get over it, and stop telling us what you THINK b/c we do not care! Stop  :'(

 

No, what is rediculous is small schools claim to be state champions when mediocre big schools would crush them.  If they can't handle the truth, that's not my fault.  Get better or get used to it.  Or I suppose you can keep scheduling the weakest small schools in the state and have 37-2 records going into semistate only to be thrashed by some kid that's 19-16 who actually wrestles a decent schedule.  If you did not care, I don't think you would have taken the time to respond.

[Y2CJ41]

Good point Duck, success in high schools should mean that a school does not have to forfeit a weight class, that the starters have decent mat room partners, that there might be enough school interest that most weights are contended for each year. I just think there is alot more to it than just the standard response of work harder, or you don't put in enough time. There are many definitions of success. I think ACAC teams are successful. As are smaller schools like Southridge, Princeton,Northview, Brown County to name a few. So getting the youth started early in an area, seems to be the common denominator for student interest in high school.

So basically you are lowering the standard for successful because the teams in the ACAC are small schools?  When I coach my kids I don't lower the standards, we want to win sectional and regional titles and take kids to state each year.  We don't lower the standards because they are from a small school.

 

Sectional Titles by School

Leo- 0

Garrett- 0

Southern Wells- 0

Bluffton- 0

Heritage- 0

Adams Central- 3

South Adams- 0

Woodlan- 2

 

5 sectional championships, wow!

[Disco]

Sorry, I'm with duck on this one, wins and losses are not the only way to define success. But I can see that wins and losses usually come after a solid program is put together. Seems like a progressive method, get youth involved early, lots of student interest , solid program, wins. I can't see how developing a good mat room ,creating student interest is watering down success.

[Scardy94]

No, what is rediculous is small schools claim to be state champions when mediocre big schools would crush them.  If they can't handle the truth, that's not my fault.  Get better or get used to it.  Or I suppose you can keep scheduling the weakest small schools in the state and have 37-2 records going into semistate only to be thrashed by some kid that's 19-16 who actually wrestles a decent schedule.  If you did not care, I don't think you would have taken the time to respond.

 

Yeah because I'm sure bigger schools would be all about scheduling a Pioneer, Twin Lakes, or Frontier. You are very true there. They would def. be willing to drop someone off their schedule to face us! Again, another ridiculous post! Thanks  :-*

[Galagore]

Since no one wants to answer what I thought were two decent questions, I will post this interesting information.  You can derive from it what you will.  I recently asked a state champ (he won the division for the smallest schools) from a classed state a few questions, and here were the answers:

1. On a scale from 1 to 10, how upset are you about your state championship:  1

2. On a scale from 1 to 10, how disappointed are you that there were other champions at your weight in the same year:  3

2. On a scale from 1 to 10, how disappointed are you that you had no opportunity to wrestle the other champions at your weight:  3

 

Additional comments that he gave on his own:  "Of course I would have loved the opportunity to wrestle those guys, but it doesn't make me feel less about what I did.  Bottom line is, I am a state champion.    If anyone ever asked me about it, I guess I would say, 'Are you a state champion?'"

[Y2CJ41]

Sorry, I'm with duck on this one, wins and losses are not the only way to define success. But I can see that wins and losses usually come after a solid program is put together. Seems like a progressive method, get youth involved early, lots of student interest , solid program, wins. I can't see how developing a good mat room ,creating student interest is watering down success.

So you are saying that small schools should lower their standards in order to deem themselves successful?  We should be happy just being on the mat with big schools?  Wow!

[Y2CJ41]

Since no one wants to answer what I thought were two decent questions, I will post this interesting information.  You can derive from it what you will.  I recently asked a state champ (he won the division for the smallest schools) from a classed state a few questions, and here were the answers:

1. On a scale from 1 to 10, how upset are you about your state championship:  1

2. On a scale from 1 to 10, how disappointed are you that there were other champions at your weight in the same year:  3

2. On a scale from 1 to 10, how disappointed are you that you had no opportunity to wrestle the other champions at your weight:  3

 

Additional comments that he gave on his own:  "Of course I would have loved the opportunity to wrestle those guys, but it doesn't make me feel less about what I did.  Bottom line is, I am a state champion.    If anyone ever asked me about it, I guess I would say, 'Are you a state champion?'"

 

Mr. Galgore,

When you ask him how he finished at state, does he say DIII state champion or does he say state champion?

[bigdanteague]

Yeah because I'm sure bigger schools would be all about scheduling a Pioneer, Twin Lakes, or Frontier. You are very true there. They would def. be willing to drop someone off their schedule to face us! Again, another ridiculous post! Thanks  :-*

 

Not rediculous at all.  Their are openings all the time with quality programs.  Just this past december, New Haven was looking for a 10th team in a field that included Elkhart Memorial, Yorktown, New Haven, Prairie Heights and other solid programs.  No one stepped up to fill it.  If you enjoy wrestling frontier and caston 4 times a year be my guest, just means more state berths for the big boys.