Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Technically in wrestling, Yorktown is a small school. They are in the bottom half of the enrollment when looking at all the schools that have wrestling. They are close to the top, but still would be considered small if we had two classes. And let me be the first of this thread to say having (at least) two classes would be fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Wow duck-and-run you sure know how to bring multiple kids down in certain sectionals. I agree our sectional is small and "not so great", but like allritecoach said, we do enter according to everyone else the toughest semi-state, and I would take a two seed over a 1 seed any day of the week if I could switch to a certain semi-state. I am not on here to say that any sectional, regional, or semi-state is tougher than the other, because if you make it to semi-state it is an accomplishment. Then, to go on and make state is a great accomplishment. Duck-and-run it is guys like you that bring down kids attitudes. I coach at a school where some students drive 20-25 min. just to get here (if they have their own vehicle, not counting a bus ride because thats over an hour sometimes.) I am happy when I get wrestlers in the morning because I know the hassle it is at times for them/parents to wake up and bring them. Tell you what you come here and pick up all Twin Lakes, Pioneers, North Whites, West Centrals, etc. wrestlers and bring them to practice in the mornings and we will get better! Until then...thank you and have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Wow, this thread looks like it's turning into one big promotion for class wrestling. Read between the lines....classing is one way to even out these iniquities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I do not want class wrestling. That is not what I was trying to say. I love that we go to Merrillville semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 My previous statement was not directed specifically at you, it was directed at the thread as a body of work. I was not attempting to put words in your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 My previous statement was not directed specifically at you, it was directed at the thread as a body of work. I was not attempting to put words in your mouth. I know. I've read your posts before, and you post great stuff. Sorry if I seemed that way. I just wanted to clarify that I am not for class wrestling, although I see benefits both ways. I guess I'm more of an "on the fencer" right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 This is where I disagree a little I think you should treat it like any problem. Us as a state have to diagnose where help is needed I think agreat way to do that is find sectionals with bad results. These are the areas that need help. Maybe in the form of RTC or camps or whatever it may be. I mean why try and fix Mishawaka? Are they broken? Fix the broken parts of the state and it will up the level all the way arround. I think this is a great thread, and provides some of us with an otherwise unknown insight to what it might take to have successful H.S. program. The idea that this thread brings the kids down is so much "bull". The students that put on the singlet could care less what anyone thinks about the status of a program. But I really think it dings the coaches pretty good. Help cant be given unless situations are identified and discussed. I'm sure every coach , administrator parent and fan would appreciate any help to improve talent or student participation. And we already have pointed to some short Cummings in the FT. Wayne area of the state. But to take it a step further what can be done and how can we implement help. Duck -And-Run good topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 First let me say I am against classing for any individual sport. If you want to class the team state so be it. There are many ways to get numbers up and taking your quality to the next level, not all will work for each program. Many programs dont have the abilty or "want to" to impliment different ideas but here are some things I believe are key to each program big or small. 1. You have to have a youth program. Wether it be freestyle, folkstyle, greco or just practices. Our program has one of our coaches overseeing each elem. school that feeds our middle school feeders. We time it out so we dont conflict with any other youth sports, these schools practice for a few weeks and have dual matches set up at the high school. Every kid gets to wrestle twice, even if we have to bump them up or down. Its all about fun at this level. 2. We have middle school coaches that have wrestled directly under or with the high school coach...they are in sync with fundementals and goals, and what should be taught to decrease the time of reteaching once they reach the high school. 3. We have mulitple recruiting events as a team..ie hog roasts, camp outs, small trips, car washes. Get your current wrestlers to bring a friend, hand out flier at school, send former elem wrestlers who might have quit before HS invations through the mail. Get creative! 4. Consistancy- Having coaches who families know, keeping the same coaches year after year helps to develope kids and gives them a since of being part of team from a young age. 5. One coach on his own time has technique sessions throught the summer 6. dont be afraid to have outside help from other schools- Paying a coach to come in a teach some mini camps or taking a group of kids to another school to learn new moves and stratagies. These are a few of the things we do, there are more, but each program has to collect ideas that other programs use and make them their own..hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Now all the top 20 schools will kill you since you let the cat out of the bag of how to have a successful program. I never realized it was that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Awood2 I hope your still not officiating, because man what a terrible thing to say about schools, kids and their programs. You would never see a guy like Tom Clark, Churck Barnett and some other well known "professional" officials making comments such as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 First let me say I am against classing for any individual sport. If you want to class the team state so be it. There are many ways to get numbers up and taking your quality to the next level, not all will work for each program. Many programs dont have the abilty or "want to" to impliment different ideas but here are some things I believe are key to each program big or small. Team scores are still the result of individual matches. Thus the individuals of larger schools must have an advantage if their team is determined to have an advantage. Classing one without the other makes no sense. And not classing either makes no sense. Thus the only thing that makes sense is to make wrestling a class sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Now all the top 20 schools will kill you since you let the cat out of the bag of how to have a successful program. I never realized it was that easy. Ouch..I never implied it was easy..lol its time comsuming as I am sure you know. Hope that was sarcasim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 My momma always told me to tell like it is. Awood2 I hope your still not officiating, because man what a terrible thing to say about schools, kids and their programs. If you are to tell it like it is, then what exactly is wrong with what he said if he simply "told it like it is"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Team scores are still the result of individual matches. Thus the individuals of larger schools must have an advantage if their team is determined to have an advantage. Classing one without the other makes no sense. And not classing either makes no sense. Thus the only thing that makes sense is to make wrestling a class sport. so let me make sure I understand this...If I am the best kid in the state at 125 and I am at a small school, I am not allowed to prove it against all the other kids in all the other classes? but if I am the best kid in the state at 125 and I only have 7 team mates that is not a different circumstance in which I have no control over? I guess I see these as different situations that would make sense to be addressed...but that is why we discuss to see what people think and put ideas together to make our sport the most fair and most exciting for all levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 well I kinda said it like it is, if I said it like it is Y2 would ban me. So let me edit it Make you happy AJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 so let me make sure I understand this...If I am the best kid in the state at 125 and I am at a small school, I am not allowed to prove it against all the other kids in all the other classes? but if I am the best kid in the state at 125 and I only have 7 team mates that is not a different circumstance in which I have no control over? I guess I see these as different situations that would make sense to be addressed...but that is why we discuss to see what people think and put ideas together to make our sport the most fair and most exciting for all levels But no sport classes based on number of kids on the team. Classification is based on enrollment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 But no sport classes based on number of kids on the team. Classification is based on enrollment. Agreed...but you would have to agree a smaller school has a harder time than a larger school getting kids out to wrestle. If I have a larger pool to choose from and cant get a full team, then I would wonder what the circumstances were that they couldnt fill their team. I know coaches who have 200-300 boys to choose from in their entire school. I am not sure how many boys some of the larger schools have but I am sure its alot more than that. Sometimes fielding and entire team at lower levels is impossible, but having a possible state champ is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I'm a coach in the Southridge sectional, so take that into consideration as you read my comments. I think at times you need to look deeper into the situations in each sectional. I agree that in our area of the state, wrestling as a whole is definitely in need of development as compared to wrestling in the Mishawaka sectional, which is where I grew up. I look at our sectional of 9 teams and see 2 teams that have had wrestling in their schools for less than 10 years (mine is one of them). Time is something we need to develop wrestling in our area. We have 4 high schools in our two counties - two have wrestling. Our junior high programs are just starting to develop numbers. My school has the only youth club in the two counties and it's in its 3rd year. Opportunities to improve are limited in my eyes for these kids due to several factors - location (the closest RTC is at least an hour drive and our closest school with wrestling is a 20 minute drive), funds (We happen to be two of the lowest socioeconomic counties in the state), enrollment ( our schools rely on multi-sport athletes to fill our teams), coaches employed (between the two schools, one coach is a teacher in the building), etc. While I don't see these as excuses for not being very good (you may disagree, but that is not why I listed them), they do limit some of the opportunities for off-season wrestling. Wrestling is improving in these two schools (my numbers have doubled in two years in JH and HS), but at the same time, these all play into the fact that in time, some of these "worst sectionals" will improve. Will Sectional 30 be better than Sectional 5 any time soon? That remains to be seen, but with some of these situations there are other circumstances as to why certain sectionals don't have as many ranked wrestlers. One little guys opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Do any state class team, but not individual competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 New Jersey is the only one. In researching this I found that many of the schools in New Jersey were close in size, they had very, very few mega schools and really small schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 well I kinda said it like it is, if I said it like it is Y2 would ban me. So let me edit it Make you happy AJ? Come on now tspray, just giving you a hard time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 But, an idividual wrestler can be a state champion, without his team being a state champion. I wouldn't want to be a 3A champ, wondering if I was truely the best in the state or not. It would be a watered-down reality... Kind of like Jimtown's developmental league football state titles? I am from Penn and I want to pound Jimtown because they think their football team is soooo good. I want them to acknowledge that we are the best program in the area and grovel at our feet instead of having all that pride. That pride can't be real because they play in watered down reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 It took me that long simply becasue I didn't come to the site much in the last two days other than checking results. I have always thought highly of you and was just shocked to see that comment made by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Do you think a kid in Ohio that wins a DII state championship feels any different than the kid that wins the DI championship or DIII championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 It took me that long simply becasue I didn't come to the site much in the last two days other than checking results. I have always thought highly of you and was just shocked to see that comment made by you. I have removed both comments, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts