best and worst sectionals and regionals

[fire77]

getting back to best and worst sectionals, even if some sectionals have more wrestlers that will make it to state i am sure there will be many very close exciting matches at all the sectionals. it will be worth attending the sectional near you for the great entertainment, if you are not working like i will be.  this is the best time of year.

[Galagore]

Thanks.  I've been asking that all week and have been ignored.

[Galagore]

Weak.  Someone finally pays attention to one of my posts (besides bigdan) and poof, class wrestling discussion over.  Weak.

[Scardy94]

Thanks.  I've been asking that all week and have been ignored.

 

No problem...with someone constantly posting bogus info I never even saw that question.

[throwforfive]

Galagore,

 

Ok, I will offer a response...... putting in "TIME", is different for each individual and different according to weight class. I think a kid that has wrestled since 7 years old, maybe "TIME" doesn't have to be spent on the mat at all in the spring, summer, and fall. Maybe he just hits the weights hard and stays flexible. Then theres the kid that has not spent that much time on the mat, maybe started 7-8th grade. I think some quality time in the summer will make him more familiar with more areas of wrestling and allow him to be better in more positions. Have you ever noticed how an Alex Tsirtsis can score from a ton of positions? This is from spending "TIME" on that mat and putting "TIME" in each of these positions. You could also spend "TIME" watching videos of technique or videos of yourself in the offseason. I think all of this would no doubt improve your wrestling. Be careful counting "TIME" by just being in a fall or spring sport. The majority of the time you are working so hard in those practices that you don't get the proper rest cycle to allow yourself to truly benefit from the lifting or what not. Best of luck, just opinions!

 

duck_and_run,

 

Again, just an opinion, one I don't share, but can agree with. That is, some top notch programs really don't have a elementary program. That is the high school coach does not want to put a ton of time in a 6-7 year old and then have him not even wrestle when he reaches high school. Lets agree on this, wrestling is an extremely hard sport. One that, at times, shows very little pay off. We as coaches and parents can see the lifeskills that a child aquires through this sport so we want them to do it. But for the kid, it is just down right nasty at times. So in these programs it is left up to the motivated parent to search out training and competition. I think having a feeder program at elementary increases your state qualifiers, but only because you have more numbers. Best of luck to all!

[Galagore]

Galagore,

 

Ok, I will offer a response...... putting in "TIME", is different for each individual and different according to weight class. I think a kid that has wrestled since 7 years old, maybe "TIME" doesn't have to be spent on the mat at all in the spring, summer, and fall. Maybe he just hits the weights hard and stays flexible. Then theres the kid that has not spent that much time on the mat, maybe started 7-8th grade. I think some quality time in the summer will make him more familiar with more areas of wrestling and allow him to be better in more positions. Have you ever noticed how an Alex Tsirtsis can score from a ton of positions? This is from spending "TIME" on that mat and putting "TIME" in each of these positions. You could also spend "TIME" watching videos of technique or videos of yourself in the offseason. I think all of this would no doubt improve your wrestling. Be careful counting "TIME" by just being in a fall or spring sport. The majority of the time you are working so hard in those practices that you don't get the proper rest cycle to allow yourself to truly benefit from the lifting or what not. Best of luck, just opinions!

 

 

Thank you, that's my point.  If the wrestling team has say 25 guys, all of them are committing to spring/fall wrestling, a rest cycle, or what have you then the other sports at a small school will suffer greatly.  That is why small schools have a disadvantage.  Smaller number of students means a smaller likely hood of good athletes for any sport.  So you either get a lot of students involved by offering a lot of sports at the expense of being able to be elite among all schools, or you have only a few sports, specialize those athletes and are able to compete with larger schools.  One might reference back to your comment about starting at 7 or 8, but the argument still holds, it's just applied to a younger group of kids. 

[davit]

Do spring sports count- not as far as the wresting aspect is concerned.  I don't think playing summer baseball helps a kid on the mat.  Those spring sports are part of what makes the small schools vulnerable.  

 

Bigdanteague made the comment, "spring sports?  spring is for freestyle" (not verbatim)

 

The reality is that smaller schools or weak wrestling areas get hurt a bit more by this.  We want all the kids to participate in freestyle/greco, but at small school it is easier for good athletes to shine in multiple sports.  It is easier for a kid to make the baseball team at a 2a school than a 5a school because typically the talent pool (at least numbers to choose from) are much greater.  Survival of the fittests.

 

Everything the "big school" people are posting is accurate.

Everything the "small school" people are posting are a reality.

 

To answer the question of what we need to get better is.......

 

Get as many kids in your freestyle/greco/folkstyle/summer wrestling programs.  

 

I personally think the best compromise is:

- Keeping the individual portion the same.  Most small school teams will even admit our individual state tournament is fine.

 

-Classing the team portion.  Most small schools can find 14 quality guys, the problem is finding 14 quality guys in 14 different weight classes.  

 

Lets get more kids wrestling either way!

[Disco]

I think your comment about the small schools having alot of their athletes involved in more than 2 sports, may also add to the equation.

I can remember a wrestler from my high school Zak Dommer was involved in 4 varsity sports a year, and starting in most of them. I can only wonder what kind of success he would of had if it was confined to 1 or 2 sports. Wrestling and basketball in the same season , starting and not missing any competition?

[timbo]

A big school has different challenges:

 

        1)  A successful football program can hurt a wrestling program

        2)  We have other sports that attract would be wrestlers---Rugby, swimming, lacrosse, and Hockey

 

    There are so many choices that sometimes wrestling takes a back seat to others

[Galagore]

Well, I will say that I think I have a clearer picture of things.  I am now fairly certain of two things, 1) Almost everyone who looks at the situation rationally knows that it is only fair to class team dual meet wrestling in the state tournament....2) Those opposed to classing the individual tournament will almost never be swayed otherwise.

[swrebel]

My kids go to a 2A school.  When my oldest, who is now a Sophomore in College, was 9 years old the high school the high school coach talked several parents and their kids into doing some travel wrestling.  We had wrestled in a local program, which offered okay competition but not the same as traveling.

 

There were eight families involved with one boy per family.  All of these kids were in the same grade.  One of the first tournaments that we went to was in Franklin.  The competition was pretty good and our kids did fairly well.  This continued through middle school until the kids were freshmen. 

 

Once they became freshmen my son ended up choosing to play baseball in the spring.  Three of the kids chose to not do any other sport, but wrestling.  Three chose to do basketball instead of wrestling.  One of the kids only did wrestling, but chose not to travel.

 

Their junior year was pretty successful.  Two of the kids went to State and placed and the team overall was successful.  Their Senior year was very good.  The same two kids placed at State and some of the others made it to Semi-state.  The team placed second as a team at sectional and ended up making it to the championship round of the Team regional.  This was the first time in school history that a team from this school had made it out of sectional.  We beat several class 4a schools that year and we placed just points behind Carmel at a tournament.

 

This team was built around the coaches two sons, one of which was a grade ahead and one which was two grades behind.  Our kids still participate in the youth wrestling program, but only a few are still travel wrestling.  This includes all grades.

 

My youngest son is a freshmen.  The team now struggles to fill the weight classes.  There are some good individuals, but the room isn't not filled with competitive young men like it was when my oldest was coming through.

 

To have a very successful program it needs to start from the bottom up.  You are going to lose some kids over the time period for one reason or another, but for the ones that are left your program will reap a huge benefit in quality.  It is a time consuming, money hog of an effort, but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything!

 

My son won the school award for the most varsity letters in his class over a four year period.  He had eleven of them.  He wasn't one of the two that went to state, but he enjoyed all the sports he participated in.  Guess what other sports the two kids participated in that went to state?  You guessed it, none!

[tonybaxter140]

how can we argue on the best and worst sectional and regionals by how guys are ranked? many guys turn around and have the best part of their season when sectioanls arrive.

[fire77]

best sectional is the one you can ( do )  attend. the worst is all the rest since you cant.

[duck_and_run]

I love the excuse that if an athelete participates in multiple sports he is less likely to become a successful wrestler.  Participating in other sports have great benifits to wrestling(ie wieght lifting, conditioning, leadership, ext.)  To say that the reason that your kid didn't go to state was because he was a multisport athelete is rediculous.  I can name several multisport state champions in the past few years.  Last year Duckworth, Baker, Chalfaunt, and I am sure many more were multiple sport atheletes.  It really is a shame that we say stuff like this.  I would venture to say an athelete that participates in multiple sports gets as much out of his training for other sports in the off season then 90% of kids who only wrestle.  This may be the small schools best attribute.  The ability to train year round with other sports also gives coaches a break. 

[ccbig]

I love the excuse that if an athelete participates in multiple sports he is less likely to become a successful wrestler.  Participating in other sports have great benifits to wrestling(ie wieght lifting, conditioning, leadership, ext.)  To say that the reason that your kid didn't go to state was because he was a multisport athelete is rediculous.  I can name several multisport state champions in the past few years.  Last year Duckworth, Baker, Chalfaunt, and I am sure many more were multiple sport atheletes.  It really is a shame that we say stuff like this.   I would venture to say an athelete that participates in multiple sports gets as much out of his training for other sports in the off season then 90% of kids who only wrestle.  This may be the small schools best attribute.  The ability to train year round with other sports also gives coaches a break.  

 

Football and wrestling share many useful skills and so those sports work well in combination.

I also have noticed cross country running and wrestling combine well as sport choices because of the cardio needed for both sports.

 

However, a gifted athlete, like those rare athletes who are good at every sport they play, tend to be an exception to the rule.

 

While it is possible to play multiple sports and be successful in all of them, IMO the average athlete is much more likely to reach a higher level of success (elite level) by specializing in 1 or 2 sports.

 

The reason why is because of the time needed to learn and master the fine points and skills used in any sport to reach the elite level.

 

The "10,000 hour rule for becoming an expert" explains this theory.

 

 

[HeartBreaker]

The topic and posts give me the drive to get my team where it needs to be, every coach wants to have a team in the state finals... But that is just a unrealistic goal for a lot of coaches out there. I am from kokomo and most of the teams around us probably have an average graduating class of  50 or so... while kokomo has about 400. If you add the population of oakhill sectional schools or add the population of peru regional schools you would probably find that all the schools are pretty small in size. Small numbers =Small wrestler turnout= weak sectional or regional. The teams that are doing great and keep doing great year after year most likely have a high turn out for elementary and middle school wrestlers... which is crucial for a wrestling program. This is my 2nd year as assistant coach of kokomo and i can already see a trend in the population of schools vs the quality of wrestling coming out of the school... Sooo, Im gonna have to say its not that the coaches are doing bad, or the kids from around here just arent as tough as the boys from the NW... Schools around here just dont have enough kids... The kids that do wrestle most likely play other sports, Im a firm believe in mat time. The more you have the better you are. Thats why ive  invested alot of my time year round to keep the room open and inviting any area kids to the room for more training... We are trying indiana and i bet you will see a turn around in the next few years... Kokomo wrestling is making big improvements and im hoping to get our team to "DA REGION".

ANYWAYS....

That being said how does one go about getting into tourneys with "competition"

[swrebel]

I love the excuse that if an athelete participates in multiple sports he is less likely to become a successful wrestler.  Participating in other sports have great benifits to wrestling(ie wieght lifting, conditioning, leadership, ext.)  To say that the reason that your kid didn't go to state was because he was a multisport athelete is rediculous.  I can name several multisport state champions in the past few years.  Last year Duckworth, Baker, Chalfaunt, and I am sure many more were multiple sport atheletes.  It really is a shame that we say stuff like this.  I would venture to say an athelete that participates in multiple sports gets as much out of his training for other sports in the off season then 90% of kids who only wrestle.  This may be the small schools best attribute.  The ability to train year round with other sports also gives coaches a break. 

I did not aim to imply (and it certainly wasn't intended as an excuse) playing multiple sports caused my son not to go to State.  He had opportunities to train in between seasons, but everyone needs some time off.

 

The two wrestlers on our team that went to state "got it" from an early age.  They had natural mat sense and strength.  They both benefited by wrestling tough competition during the Spring, which afforded them the opportunity to wrestle national competition with Team indiana.  The increased mat time,  their natural ability, and their training partners were key to their success.  One of the two had less work ethic, but he had the most mat sense and natural strength.

 

My son played Soccer (because we don't have football) and he played baseball.  While Soccer certainly contributes to conditioning neither sport really helped with wrestling strength, but again he was happy doing what he did.

 

My son did beat two kids, at team regional, who ended up placing at state, so to say he wasn't good or didn't do well because he played multiple sports is certainly far from the truth.  Could he have done better with some more mat time and time in the weight room?  Most likely. 

 

The key to building a program is to start young.  You may lose some kids when they get into high school, but that is just part of it.  This will take time and effort from parents, coaches and kids, but the rewards will be worth it.  Certainly don't worry about a kid playing multiple sports (unless it is basketball!).

 

I talked to a coach from a 2A school yesterday.  Their team won the tournament we were at and they have consistently been a pretty good team year over year.  Their school has football, so I asked him if football was key to their success.  He said no that in fact the wrestling team helped the football team more than the other way around.  He has a person on his staff that is also involved with football, so they are trying to turn it around.  I also asked him about their youth program and he said they don't really have one.  He said he lets the 3rd, 4th and 5th graders hang out with the Junior High team.  He stated that he was willing to take kids to tournaments, but the kids had to ask for it.  Somehow this works for him.  He has a full team plus 10 or more reserves.  He has been at the school for a long time and he does teach, so I would say that is a pretty big part of it.

[Almost Good]

:(I am disappointed in the tone of your choice of a topic. Especially coming from you AWOOD. Maybe we should discuss the weakest kids in our rooms, or maybe if kids are not up to state ranking they should quit. Very with your choice, I did everything I could to make our sectional the best, there was only one team smaller than ours that had more state Qualifiers over the years. Lets be a little more positive in our approach. I am known as an encourager, do not dis small schools and their kids, it does not become you. What are you gonna measure next? > Pick a new slant :-X

[cewrestlingfan]

Well, I will say that I think I have a clearer picture of things.  I am now fairly certain of two things, 1) Almost everyone who looks at the situation rationally knows that it is only fair to class team dual meet wrestling in the state tournament....2) Those opposed to classing the individual tournament will almost never be swayed otherwise.

 

I fall in this category of people.  I only wish there was a good way to make it happen and convince the IHSAA it should be this way.

[Kingsmenwrestler]

  I would just like to throw in my two cents, I believe that if you want to get better you seek out better competition whatever that may be. I would suggest that if you find yourself in a smaller school that doesnt offer the competition/coaching that is required for you to step it up to the next level, make a change. I would suggest that you look around in the off season and find a club or program within driving distance for you. I dont think its all about whose sectional is better or does a small school have a chance at state,  its about what can you do to make them better. Wrestling is still an individual sport and its up to us to make ourselves and our team better even if that means traveling to a different club off season for better competition. My point is dont be complacent get out and wrestle in the off season,  if your from a weak sectional then make it better, who just wants to win sectional and not be able to compete after?  I think you will find in most cases that most clubs welcome "outsiders".

[Y2CJ41]

So if you were at a 2A school and wanted to be a football powerhouse you would schedule Penn, Warren Central, Lowell, Bishop Dwenger, etc?  Your feelings are if you get pounded on enough you will get better?

[Bomber]

So if you were at a 2A school and wanted to be a football powerhouse you would schedule Penn, Warren Central, Lowell, Bishop Dwenger, etc?  Your feelings are if you get pounded on enough you will get better?

 

I believe I think what he is saying is that this an individual sport called wrestling and not football and the kids can make the choice to be a better wrestler by working hard in the off season. 

[KarlHungus]

I believe I think what he is saying is that this an individual sport called wrestling and not football and the kids can make the choice to be a better wrestler by working hard in the off season. 

 

What is that team score for then?  What does the IHSAA award in Center Grove's gym every February? Can an individual practice day in and day out in Mishawaka or Perry Meridian's room?

[Y2CJ41]

I believe I think what he is saying is that this an individual sport called wrestling and not football and the kids can make the choice to be a better wrestler by working hard in the off season. 

So in order to build a program, you should only cater to your elite kids and the others just throw to the side?  Should we be like  Big Dan says and if you can't run with the big dogs there is no use to run at all?

[Bomber]

Ok.  Let's look at another example.  Look at the great game of Indiana High School GOLF are we going to make excusses for individuals and teams because they can't compete with bigger schools because the course they play on is crap and unfair.  No! We look at this and say wow that team is good because all 5 of their players worked hard in the summer months to prepare themselves for the season.  What I am saying is that kids that want to work hard in a particular sport and want to be the best in that sport will find a way of doing so.  I can tell you with wrestling its the same way!  During the off season your kids have the same opportunity like the Crown Points and other schools to participate in clubs, AAU Tournaments and much more if they have the desire too.   The problem what you see is the majority of the kids choose not too.  Some of the BEST individuals come from small schools.