fbi Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 THE SPORT OF WRESTLING HAS CHANGED. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS SINCE WHEN DOES A COACH SET THE STARTING LINEUP WITHOUT A CHALLENGE TO SEE WHO EARNS THAT SPOT. "THE BETTER MAN" OR WRESTLER SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT EACH WEEK TO CHALLENGE. NOT WHAT THEY "COACH" THINKS. EXAMPLE WELL THIS KID WONT GET PINNED OR I THINK THIS WRESTLER WILL GIVE US A BETTER SHOT. THE WRESTLING THAT I WAS BROUGHT UP ON AND GREW TO LOVE WAS THE REAL SPORT YOU EARNED IT NOT POLITICS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axe87 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I have noticed this lately also..i see it more in the aspect of dual meets were you are fighting for team points and then there are still wrestle-offs for spots for individual tournaments..i can see the point for both sides of the argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbi Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 IF YOU DO THIS ALL YEAR FOR YOUR DUAL MEETS AND COME STATE/SECTIONALS, AN INDIVIDUAL TOURNEY WITH TEAM POINTS. DO YOU HAVE THE KID THAT EARNED THE SPOT OR THE KID THAT YOU THOUGHT WAS THE BETTER DUAL WRESTLER? ANWSER THIS QUESTION, HOW DO YOU LOOK A KID IN THE EYE AND TELL HIM THAT HE IS NOT WRESTLING, BECAUSE THEY (COACH) THINK THAT ITS BETTER FOR A TEAM. WRESTLING IS A SPORT THAT BUILDS CHARACTER, NOW YOU ARE GOING TO DISCOURAGE A KID. COULD YOU PUT YOUR HEAD ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IF THE COACH ASKED YOU TOO, KNOWING YOU EARNED YOUR SPOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwrestler215 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 THE SPORT OF WRESTLING HAS CHANGED. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS SINCE WHEN DOES A COACH SET THE STARTING LINEUP WITHOUT A CHALLENGE TO SEE WHO EARNS THAT SPOT. "THE BETTER MAN" OR WRESTLER SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT EACH WEEK TO CHALLENGE. NOT WHAT THEY "COACH" THINKS. EXAMPLE WELL THIS KID WONT GET PINNED OR I THINK THIS WRESTLER WILL GIVE US A BETTER SHOT. THE WRESTLING THAT I WAS BROUGHT UP ON AND GREW TO LOVE WAS THE REAL SPORT YOU EARNED IT NOT POLITICS. In all honesty I am a coach. We are hired for a reason, and that reason is to put more "W's" on the board. We do wrestle offs but if you are a parent and you think that just because your kid can beat another kid in the room, gives him the right to wrestle a match? That isn't your discretion that is ours and if your kid doesn't put forth the effort in practice would you know? We are coaches, we are there everyday. We see who works hard and who has enough heart to not get pinned. If a coach decides to put a wrestler in because he is going up against a stud and the wrestler he is subbing in has heart and is hard to pin, I agree with them 100%. That's why there are coaches and spectators. But politics are different! ex: coaches son, that ain't right. Any true athlete hates politics! This is just how I feel??? You agree or you don't, owell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sometimes a wrestlers style matches up better than anothers. I have seen some wrestlers perform under the lights better. Wrestle offs should act as an indicator but I am not sure they are the tell all. Many coaches can see who is hot that week, sometimes you go with the older guy even though he is not necessarily the better wrestler---in a big match he might handle the pressure better. Just a few thoughts that could factor in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasheet Mupans Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 IMO wrestle offs only determine which wrestler will get that spot for the state series. As far as I see it, the coach can wrestle whoever he wants in whatever weight class he sees fit to earn a victory for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wrestle offs prove who the better wrestler is if you want to be in the line-up win your wrestle off. I would always try at the begining of the year if I had to wrestle someone off I would try to inflict as much pain as possible so if someone wanted to wrestle off again that was in there head. Needless to say after doing that not many people wanted to wrestle off!! At the end of the day just like any sport it is up to the coach!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'm sure that I'm not the only one here who has coached the kid who was a great practice or wrestle-off wrestler, but had "stage fright" when it came to matches outside the room. Plus, you have to consider that, often, you wrestle off with someone that you wrestle for hours every day. You get used to each other's styles more than anything, which can lead to deceptive wrestle-off results. I always grew tired of hearing all of these things about how "my kid would be varsity, but the coach doesn't like him". I never coached against anybody who would rather play favorites than produce W's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 good for you your cookie is in the mail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwforfive Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I think there are several good points made here. However, wrestling is changing everyday. It is not an easy sport to stay in. Especially, if your just doing practices and not getting to wrestle much. Most teams now day barely field a varsity, let alone a junior varsity. So coaches may use kids in the varsity line up to ensure they are getting enough matches to keep them out. Secondly, we have a philosophy that we will use whomever we want in the duals. We let challenge matches decide who wrestles in the individual bracketed tourneys. WE decide who wrestles in the duals. Third, consider this, you have a wrestle off November 14th and kid "B" loses. He gets upset and quits. Is kid "A" truly as good at the end of the year as he could have been with kid "B" in the room pushing him and working out with him? Therefore, consider pushing wrestlebacks back some to get kids invested. I'm sure this isn't needed at the schools with 60+ kids. But what about the programs with 20- kids? They have to get creative. I really like oldwrestler215's reply. You may not know what is going on in the room. Say your wrestler is a 145lber fighting for that spot in the coaches eye. Yet his partner is always the 119lb jv kid? Where as the other 145lber is grabbing varsity guys at 140 and 152 constantly. This leaves a bad taste in a coaches mouth as they hope to see kid challenging themselves daily. Hope all this just makes you slow down and see things from another angle. Best of luck to your wrestler and I'm sure when your challenge comes and you win it, you will be in the bracketed tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsaw Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Well now... with injuries, illness, weight management, attitude, opponent, line up shifts happen all the time. A coach is going to and sometimes have to shift things around for the team in a dual meet situation. You just never know, yes for the kid that gets bumped out of the line up it sucks. Especially if he is a work horse and does all the right things. But, we have this conversation with the kids before every match...don't take it personal, take it for the team! And at the end of the year when its tourney time... well they control their own destiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I think fbi comments really show how thankless coaching can be sometimes. I don't know the situation, but coach is the coach for a reason. I knew who was going to win every wrestle I conducted before the wrestle off ever got started. Coaching is hard thankless work. Leave the coaches alone and let them do their job. It is their team to coach--not the parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Back in the day, every team wrestled their normal line-up based on wrestle-offs, and the best wrestler always wrestled his own weight class. Then some coaches figured out that if they worked the different match ups, they could drastically affect the scoring outcome of the dual. Once some coaches started doing that, other coaches had to follow so that they wouldn't keep losing duals when they are the better team. Side Note: I've seen this backfire very badly, too - costing one team a chance at a state championship. Many people have made some excellent points to support this in other ways. I especially like the point about getting younger kids some varsity experience to help them develop as a better wrestler, see what level of competition they will be facing in the future, along with keeping them involved and on the team. Coaches now have to also follow rules about the number of weigh-ins each individual wrestler is allowed and follow rules about weight loss. These can affect when wrestlers can compete at certain weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutsdad Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 In all honesty I am a coach. We are hired for a reason, and that reason is to put more "W's" on the board. We do wrestle offs but if you are a parent and you think that just because your kid can beat another kid in the room, gives him the right to wrestle a match? That isn't your discretion that is ours and if your kid doesn't put forth the effort in practice would you know? We are coaches, we are there everyday. We see who works hard and who has enough heart to not get pinned. If a coach decides to put a wrestler in because he is going up against a stud and the wrestler he is subbing in has heart and is hard to pin, I agree with them 100%. That's why there are coaches and spectators. But politics are different! ex: coaches son, that ain't right. Any true athlete hates politics! This is just how I feel??? You agree or you don't, owell. Well Said!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Fact of teh matter is, you put your best kids on the mat. You put the people you think will give the TEAM the best chance at earing the rewards of their efforts AS A WHOLE. If Johnny can beat Tommy in the room every day, it does NOT mean he can beat someone from another school AT ALL. Tommy may very well have the skill set to beat the other schools wrestler. He may have the kid's number so to say. Every coach I have met has a VERY strong ability to recognize the talent (or frankly the lack there of) in his wrestlers. He knows the sport and the kids he deals with everyday. Personally I am sick of parents who think their little angel is the next Dan Gable when he is a servicable wrestler who is giving it all he has! How about this folks...Take off the Rose Colored Glasses and Celebrate your childs efforts for even having the guts to stick with wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeinandout Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 THE SPORT OF WRESTLING HAS CHANGED. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS SINCE WHEN DOES A COACH SET THE STARTING LINEUP WITHOUT A CHALLENGE TO SEE WHO EARNS THAT SPOT. "THE BETTER MAN" OR WRESTLER SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT EACH WEEK TO CHALLENGE. NOT WHAT THEY "COACH" THINKS. EXAMPLE WELL THIS KID WONT GET PINNED OR I THINK THIS WRESTLER WILL GIVE US A BETTER SHOT. THE WRESTLING THAT I WAS BROUGHT UP ON AND GREW TO LOVE WAS THE REAL SPORT YOU EARNED IT NOT POLITICS. All sports have changed. Now, you have so many parents that complain about the decisions being made by coaches. Parents used to stay out of everything. My dad and mom both were huge supporters of my coaches, and I know they didn't agree with them a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 All sports have changed. Now, you have so many parents that complain about the decisions being made by coaches. Parents used to stay out of everything. My dad and mom both were huge supporters of my coaches, and I know they didn't agree with them a lot. Very true. Agree with this 100%! My parents weren't exactly "fans" of my coaches, but they always supported him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsaw Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 ...Take off the Rose Colored Glasses and Celebrate your childs efforts for even having the guts to stick with wrestling. I LOVE IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously who opens a discussion typing in all caps. That's outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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