MattM Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I have noticed that many states have their USA Wrestling Freestyle/Greco season from April (maybe very end of March) through first week of June. However, Indiana has a Freestyle/Greco season from the end of March through first week of May. Seems to me we are cutting an entire month out of our possible freestyle season. Some thoughts I had on what could be helped by moving the season. An extra month may encourage more kids to work on Freestyle/Greco because they have more time to learn and practice it before it gets over. An extra month will allow some kids to take some time off wrestling after middle school and high school season ends in February and then start Freestyle/Greco without missing most of the season. An extra month would give those participating school sports more opportunities to participate in USA events too. An extra month could give some middle school and high school coaches a few weeks off to organize or have a break before jumping into the USA season. Having USA Folkstyle go until the end of March (ends in middle of March) may allow more participating by middle school and high school kids after their school season is complete. It would also allow some middle school and high school coaches to help more with some of the youth Folkstyle season without it overlapping with most of their season. Seems to me that bumping our USA Folkstyle schedule back about 2-3 weeks and bumping back Freestyle/Greco season a month (or just adding around another month) would give the sport a few more benefits than where it is now. Do I know some states have their youth USA Folkstyle season in the fall instead of the spring but that?s a different issue to get into at some point later on? If several other states are able have a Freestyle/Greco season from April through first week of June I wonder why ours doesn't follow a similar pattern. Youth Baseball? State Finals Facilities? Other factors? I know the ISWA needs time to organize for national events, but other states seem to be able to organize for those same events without stopping the first week of May. Just trying to wrap my head around this thing. Anyone know why the schedule is the way it is now? Any thoughts on a change such as the one I proposed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 "State Finals Facilities?" This is a big reason why the state freestyle season is when it is. The state 4H fairgrounds booked all year. The ISWA has only one weekend they can get the fairgrounds to host the freestyle state tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilermaker Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 "State Finals Facilities?" This is a big reason why the state freestyle season is when it is. The state 4H fairgrounds booked all year. The ISWA has only one weekend they can get the fairgrounds to host the freestyle state tournament. I would like to see the ISWA move Greco state 2 weeks after Freestyle state. That way the kids have at least 2 weeks to focus exclusively on the Greco style. Just my 2 cents. I think IL does this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeMom Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I wouldn't mind that, either, Boilermaker. I don't think we spend enough time on Greco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 We don't spend enough time on either. Just look at the duals to see the proof. Indiana wrestlers are better than they look at the duals but hardly any tournaments and such a short season doesn't allow for them to really develop the skills and techniques needed for the national stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlingmom812 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 We don't spend enough time on either. Just look at the duals to see the proof. Indiana wrestlers are better than they look at the duals but hardly any tournaments and such a short season doesn't allow for them to really develop the skills and techniques needed for the national stage. Here here! As the mom of one of those greco wrestlers at SB duals I agree wholeheartedly! Now of course I think my son is one heck of a wrestler (5th folkstyle state, 2nd greco state, 3rd freestyle state this year, I don't think that's too bad for his second full season of aau wrestling, not to mention his excellent school record 17-1 and highland hills invitational champ at 125 lb) but let me say that He went into the duals with a total of 5 greco losses including 2 state tournaments and regionals last year, he had only been pinned once (central regional final last year). He got pinned in 4 of 6 matches at duals. It was a great experience for him but he was definately not ready for the competition. We take him to every greco event we possibly can. And now, I don't know if anyone else has noticed the "tentative schedule" for the 2010 state finals but, they are moving the greco state finals to the sunday after freestyle state (freestyle state on sat, greco on sun.)! I sent an email to the ISWA expressing my concern over that possibility and how I feel it would be a disservice to the greco wrestling community. It was our experience that wrestling the day before state was a very bad idea the first year he wrestled greco state he wrestled a local freestyle tournament the day before and he was so tired he slept the entire day only waking up for his matches. I wonder what are others thoughts on this possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 wrestlingmom812, You must realize when you go to the schoolboy duals you are wrestling each state's best wrestlers. If you are 2nd or 3rd in Indiana, that honestly doesn't mean you'd be 2nd or 3rd in other states. The schoolboy duals are very tough and have a lot of very good wrestlers in attendance. There are numerous very tough Indiana wrestlers that have taken multiple losses at this meet. For instance in 2006 Brandon Wright went 4-2 and the next year he was an Indiana state runner-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 The problem with extending the season until the first week in June is: When and how do you qualify kids for Team Indiana? It is my understanding that in 2010 the SB Duals will be the 2nd week-end in June, the Cadet Duals will be the 3rd week-end and the Junior Duals the 4th week-end. In many states, the coaches hand pick the kids for the teams but Indiana chooses to have a qualifier that is fair to all. In regard to 2010 ISWA FS & GR State, I beleive the main focus behind combining the events into one week-end was to save the parents and coaches money. Although the attendance at 09 FS State was about the same as 08, the attendance at GR State was down considerably. Lets face it...a lot of familes are experiencing tough economic times and when you have to cut out something...for many it may be Greco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Formidable Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 This is a classic example of, ?He who chases two rabbits catches none.? For the past several years we (i.e. the wrestling community) have been preoccupied with extending the folkstyle wrestling season. The increased emphasis has effectively abbreviated an already short freestyle and/or Greco-Roman wrestling campaign. The quandary worsens when you factor in that many wrestlers are now mentally and physically fatigued by the time the ?Olympic? season begins. We used to blame baseball, but statistically speaking, fewer young athletes are playing baseball. There are no easy answers. The constants are that there will always be 24 hours in a day, and 12 months in a year. How many then do we reserve for freestyle and Greco experience? We can either learn to palate the mediocre returns from Fargo and the Schoolboy Duals or throw the legs in and ride it out. Of course, the latter option will yield no better results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 It is my understanding that in 2010 the SB Duals will be the 2nd week-end in June, the Cadet Duals will be the 3rd week-end and the Junior Duals the 4th week-end. I do agree that it is a much more fair option to wrestle it out to see who makes the team. But to play devils advacate here. in recent years we have had a hard time using the state finals results to fill the team. If we are going to have so many top 2 kids turn it down then what we currently have is not much different than the coaches hand picking the teams for at least the duals. The individual nationals could still come from the state finals like usual. If the coaches could get the results of Freestyle and Greco events in March and April they could probably find the best team possible from those interested. If need be they could use the state finals results (if moved to the start of june) to help fill the last few spots for at least the Cadet and Junior duals. Heck, many times the coaches are still looking to fill spots with wrestlers within a 2 or 3 weeks of the event as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlingmom812 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 wrestlingmom812, You must realize when you go to the schoolboy duals you are wrestling each state's best wrestlers. If you are 2nd or 3rd in Indiana, that honestly doesn't mean you'd be 2nd or 3rd in other states. The schoolboy duals are very tough and have a lot of very good wrestlers in attendance. There are numerous very tough Indiana wrestlers that have taken multiple losses at this meet. For instance in 2006 Brandon Wright went 4-2 and the next year he was an Indiana state runner-up. I do realize that, and I in no way meant to imply that. I was simply giving his record to show how well he has done for only wrestling a couple of years, that he earned his spot, it wasn't just luck or lack of competition. It was also meant to be a bit "tongue in cheek", we all think our kids are great! But I also felt he was not ready for the level of competition at duals and am curious how we can remedy that and improve Indiana's performance. We always say, anybody can get beat on any given day...The kid who took 2nd at Freestyle went 0-7 at the duals, and I felt horrible for him! Yet a kid who took 4th went 4-2 (different weight classes). The whole point was that I agreed with the previous post and was wondering why they were changing things around. Obviously we are new to USA wrestling as well as the ISWA so I do not have the knowledge that comes with having been around for several years. Just trying to find insights into why they do things the way they do. Several of the response's posted have done just that. I do like the way they pick the Team Indiana wrestlers and I did not know that other states handpick their kids, now I do. I haven't seen the numbers for the total participation in the state finals, nor would I know how to find out what last years were, so I would just have to go by my percetion by simply being in attendance. ( I didn't notice a significant difference, but that was simply based on perception as well as the fact that almost all of our team had several more kids in their brackets than they did the previous year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdaddy Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 There are alot of good points being brought up here. I know that my son did not make the trip due to a couple of factors, none of which were cost (injury/brother home on leave from Iraq) but the cost are very high. When I've gone to national tournaments in the past, I've had the opportunity to talk to many parents from other states. I can honestly say that the costs of sending an Indiana kid to Fargo is significantly higher than any out-of-state parent that I have talked to. These include Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Missouri and Florida. In some cases our costs were triple what they paid, but all were at $500 less. As I said this was all "word of mouth" from parents in the stands, but it seems as if all the other states have found a way to fund all or part of the trip to insure that they can get their best on the mat. I think the only way Indiana is going to close the gap is 1) find a way to help wrestlers financially and 2) reverse the trend and correct the freestyle/greco season. I don't have the answers, but obviously other states have figured it out. Indiana needs to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilermaker Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Greco and Freestyle state has about 1500 participants. Raise the entry fee by $10 and use the $15000 to reduce costs for the Fargo trip. Also charge an additional $2 more/participant for every GR/FS ISWA tournament to collect even more for say the SB duals. I don't think $2-10 is going to stop anyone from participating knowing it will go towards a good cause. Besides much more is spent on spectator fees for family, food, candy, gas, hotel, etc. Just my 2 cents. Also keep pushing to have ISWA clubs focus on Greco/Freestyle more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Raising the state finals entry fee $10 may actually keep some away since numbers have already been down the last few years as it is. However raising the card fee or the events entry fee $2 may not be as big of a deal or as noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinwrestlersmom Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 We already had to choose between Greco state and Freestyle state this year so raising it another 10 bucks can be a big deal to some. Factor in the cost of admission for the rest of the family for some it's 100 dollars just to walk in the door. I agree it would be for a good cause but not if it defeats the purpose of the younger wrestler getting good enough to go to Fagro when he's older. *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts