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scratching a ref


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The gentlemen checking for scratches did miss a couple.  In that case, you're right; it did happen.  But if a coach has scratched an official then says nothing until the 3rd period or at all, where does the fault lie?  Why did the coach not say anything?  Personally, I think it's because the coach doesn't want the official to know he's one who scratched him.  Why is that?  If an official that has been scratched comes out to start the match, the coach should go to the table and say so.  At the very least, he should not let the match start, get the tournament director, and bring the issue up.  Yes, a couple of scratches were missed, but I think the ultimate responsibility lies with the coach.

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Telling the event director that you do not want that ref to participate in your wrestlers match.  Simple as that.  It can be for a multitude of reasons some more valid than others.  In most cases they get a new ref for the match and everything is fine.  In this case something was missed and the ref of the match was not suppose to have ran that match.

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A coach  may scratch ONE referee at either the Individual Semi-State or State Finals. That referee should not work the match as the "main" referee at the Semi-State.

At the State Finals the scratched referee should not work as the referee or the assistant referee.

 

A referee may also scratch a school. This is most often done if they work in that school system or if they have family attending that school system or any other reason they may feel appropriate.

 

Yes, if a coach scratches a referee he shold not allow that match to begin.

 

 

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Does anyone know if you can do this in Greco or freestyle? Particularly out at Fargo.

 

Not officially.....but I happen to know the head offical at Fargo and by all accounts he is a very good guy and he might be able to work something out for you ;D

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I am not sure if a coach would be making a smart move or not by not allowing a match to start if the powers that be missed a call to "scratch" a ref. I would have to know if this process is anonymous for the coach before the meet starts. If it is an anonymous move (and it should be) then the sense of anonymity goes out the window as the coach approaches the table and the ref is removed. I am sure that if this happens and the coach goes to the table and makes his wishes very public, the ref who is replacing the scratched ref would be very aware that one of his peers has just been publicly embarassed. I doubt that any of the refs would hold a grudge in this case in defense of a fellow official, but there would always be that doubt in the air. I would have to put the responsibility back on the tournament officials in this case, not the coach.

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The process is, indeed, anonymous.  Coaches are given a scratch sheet and, if they desire to scratch an official, can do so.  I still think the ultimate responsibility lies with the coach if he feels that strongly about not having an official call any of his matches.

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The process is, indeed, anonymous.  Coaches are given a scratch sheet and, if they desire to scratch an official, can do so.  I still think the ultimate responsibility lies with the coach if he feels that strongly about not having an official call any of his matches.

 

So you are ok with the public humiliation of the official?

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I don't consider that humiliation unless either the coach or the ref makes a big production out of it.  I feel what some coaches do during a match in terms of berating an official to be more embarrassing than what this would be.

 

When I was coaching, I can remember us scratching an official at semi-state simply because we didn't know who he was.  We knew the guy assigned to be the assistant ref was an outstanding official but had no idea about the other guy.  The ref we scratched came to us, a little upset, asking why we had scratched him (apparently eons ago, it wasn't quite so anonymous).  When we explained why, he was fine with it. 

 

I still think the coach has the final responsibility.

 

 

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I know at E'ville, our guys will write "SCRATCH # ___" at the top of the bout sheets.  This tells the officials to switch places.  There's no mention of which team made the scratch.  We run into problems when one team scratches one of the officials and the other team scratches the other guy.  That's when we have to pull a ref from another mat.  Realistically, I think officials usually figure out who scratched them.

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As far as this being anonymous, it really won't be very hard to figure out who scratched the official. I would think the scratched official is told what team he can't work a match for.

 

Sometimes the tournament director will tell the officials who sctratched them at SS, and sometimes they just provide you with a list of matches in which the general order has been switched, thus you can pretty much figure out that one team or the other in the current match scratched you. In the first 2 rounds of the SS they use 2 refs each on 3 of the mats, and 3 refs on the 4th mat. If you scratch an official on a mat that only has 2 officials, then the scratched official would still assist. If, however, your on the mat with three officials, then the scratched official would sit out.

 

In the semis, where there are 4 officials on one mat and 5 officials on the other, it gets much easier to find a work around.

 

At the state finals you are NOT told who scratched you, but since there are 3 officials on every mat the supervisor of officials can generally switch the order around to make it so that the scratched official doesn't assist either. This can obviously get complicated if school A scratched 1 of the 3 officials, and school B scratched on of the 3 officials. It gets further complicated when an official scratches a team. Unlike the school which can only scratch one official, the official can scratch as many schools as they want.

 

Most schools do not scratch an official, and most of those that do scratch an official do so for a good reason. For example, I've heard coaches say something like, "Our kids wrestle defensively, and Official X is quick to call stalling, thus we prefer not to have him". That's good coaching and preparation. Of course, there are always those situations where a scratch occurs either by the coach or the official due to "personality conflicts" as well  ;)

 

From a personal standpoint,  I think being able to scratch an official is a school's prerogative.

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At some semi-states the official scratch list is posted on the scorers table and others note the scratched on the bout card or rotation sheet.  However it is generally not to hard to figure out who scratched an official.  If Team A and B are wrestling one match and an official is scratched and then in another match Team A and C are wrestling with the same officical scratched most officials would figure out Team A scratched them.

 

I was scratched by one school at Merrillville.  Did I seek out the coach to find out why I was scratched? No.  Does it bother me that I was scratched?  No.  Will I take the scratch out on the coaches or the team at a later date?  No.  For whatever reason Team A did not want me to work their matches and the scratch was part of the meet time coaching decisions to advance their wrestlers.  It is part of the sport.

 

The important point for officials on being scratched is to not take it personally.  As noted above by Chuck, coaches scratch officials for many reasons.  Some logical, some not so logical.

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I scratched a Jim Beason a few years ago. He asked why I did, and wasn't pissed about it, just curious...word gets to them one way or another. Ultimately, it happens quite often. Ironically, there was only one of our matches reffed by the "scheduled refs". I believe it was because other teams had also scratched the other ones.

The refs I talked to don't take it personlly, but have a good idea of why they were scratched. In a sense, they agreed to disagree with a call they had made "against" the team that scratched them. I was told JB was the most scratched ref, so...there are not too many secrets, nor any reason someone might be afraid to scratch a ref.

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i really dont understand why the ishaa allows refs to be scratched  what other sport allows it  none that i know of  the refs as ss & st aare supposed to the best the state has  if there the best then there should no be any scratches the finals are not seeded there a random draw and sho should be refs the only people who should be able to scratch are refs to many times i have heard he is a good ref but i dont wnat him to work my matchs

 

if a coach thinjks a ref is not the right for his matchs dont vote him there

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Once the Arbiter system is fully functional, I believe that it will keep track (for the most part) of what officials have worked for which schools, and you will only be able to vote for an official that has worked one of your matches in the past three seasons. The Arbiter is still, however, a work in progress  :)

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stall me out, although I see your point I like the scratch.  In response to your comment, in other sports the game is not decided in one action.  There are several players involved and often times many officials.  I was just tring to explain to a friend the other day...  One element that makes wrestling so emotional is that the contest CAN be decided at anytime with a single action, a pin.  The opportunity to turn a but kicking into a win is always possible.  Also, the match is CONDUCTED by one person, the official.  Our sport is a mental game as much as physical.  How the match is conducted can completely derail a high school athlete mentally.  Putting some comfort/control into the hands of the coaches over who will conduct this defining moment in a young man's life is not a bad thing.

 

As an official, it is not a popularity contest when you officiate state.  It should not be about you, the official.  I don't agree with refs trying to figure out who scratched them, or approaching the coach.  If you qualified to referee state you have made your point, leave the rest alone.

 

If scratching bruises a few egos than probably justifies the coach's decision and is the best thing for the kids. 

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awood2 not to argue with a ref of your statuare all sports can be effected by the actions of one ref in diving everthing is subjective did the diver hit the water square how big was the splash was rotation full  one ten point can mean the difference between the top spot and not medalling gymnatsics is the same yet those sports dont allow scratching a ref

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