No One Famous Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Congratulations! I, like everyone else, want to see more Indiana kids represented at the collegiate level...however we need to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmikeydet20 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yes, I agree with you. All that I was saying was that I don't believe class wrestling will help.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Your wrong if you think our kids get recruited because we have a single class system....only our studs get recruited by d1 ... states that have classes have kids in lower classes going d1 more than our second tier guys No, kids get recruited more from certain classed states because they had more national success. Y2 even pointed out the importance of this because his regional qualifier that placed at a national event got a letter, while his state qualifier received nothing. Am I correct Y2, or am I missing some facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptankers Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 First of all let me say that I detest class sports. I would have classed the sectionals for all team sports and then put everybody back in the pot at the regional level. State champion, not Class champion. Anyway, wrestling is an individual sport and Indiana has not classed any of those yet as far as I know. Track, Tennis, Cross Country, Golf and Wrestling all are still single class sports. If they class the team tourney we all know that Mater Dei will win every single 2A title. Muncie Burris has done just that in 2A vollyball. Unfortunately, I can make an argument for the other side because I went to a school with 460 students and teach at a school with 2800 students. The coaching at most of your larger schools is significantly better. I said most and I am generalizing, but when I started working at the big school and realized that they have several coaches versus 1 or 2, and that those coaches all competed in their sport in college it changed my thinking. Kids that win individual titles in any sport from a small school do that soley because of the work they put in outside of school. For example, in track a small school will have a track coach and a field coach. A large school will have a throw coach, a ahigh jump coach, a long jump coach, a sprint coach, a mid distance coach, a long distance coach, a hurdle coach etc. In wrestling we have coaches that focus on the lightweights, midweights and heavyweights. State qualifiers from small schools would place higher or even win titles if they went to a large school. Small schools simple cannot provide the coaching. Follow that up with the competition that the large school provides and the fact that most small school athletes are in multiple sports so they spread themselves around more and you can see why more titles come from the big schools. I am still totally against classing wrestling or any other sport in any form but wanted to share my dual point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 As a small school coach I have not noticed any problems with my kids being recruited. I had a couple of good guys who lost in the semi-state and even the regional and I had the smaller colleges (Wabash, Mancester...) asking about them all day. These schools know the wrestlers that are good regaurdless of if they make it to state or not. I dont think that having a class system would have effected our kids being recruited that much. I dont think that I.U. or Purdue would start coming after us because we made it to state in the small division as oppossed to semi-state in one class. And either way we were being sought after by the schools that would be coming after us no matter what the system. This is just what I have noticed from my short coaching career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 First of all let me say that I detest class sports. I would have classed the sectionals for all team sports and then put everybody back in the pot at the regional level. State champion, not Class champion. Anyway, wrestling is an individual sport and Indiana has not classed any of those yet as far as I know. Track, Tennis, Cross Country, Golf and Wrestling all are still single class sports. If they class the team tourney we all know that Mater Dei will win every single 2A title. Muncie Burris has done just that in 2A vollyball. Unfortunately, I can make an argument for the other side because I went to a school with 460 students and teach at a school with 2800 students. The coaching at most of your larger schools is significantly better. I said most and I am generalizing, but when I started working at the big school and realized that they have several coaches versus 1 or 2, and that those coaches all competed in their sport in college it changed my thinking. Kids that win individual titles in any sport from a small school do that soley because of the work they put in outside of school. For example, in track a small school will have a track coach and a field coach. A large school will have a throw coach, a ahigh jump coach, a long jump coach, a sprint coach, a mid distance coach, a long distance coach, a hurdle coach etc. In wrestling we have coaches that focus on the lightweights, midweights and heavyweights. State qualifiers from small schools would place higher or even win titles if they went to a large school. Small schools simple cannot provide the coaching. Follow that up with the competition that the large school provides and the fact that most small school athletes are in multiple sports so they spread themselves around more and you can see why more titles come from the big schools. I am still totally against classing wrestling or any other sport in any form but wanted to share my dual point of view. While you are against it, you have shown great reasons for class wrestling. Thanks for sharing your experience as many people have not been on both ends of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleSam Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have noticed that 75% of higher scores on SAT etc. testing are from large schools. We need class testing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngone Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Forget even semi-state. At Sectionals small school have trouble competing as a team not individuals as a team. Wrestling is a TEAM sport. You have to compete with someone else not against a clock (swimming , cross country, track, ect.). When you think about it, if you have 5000 student, your chances of producing 14 quality wrestlers is alot higher than a school with 400 students. Here is a solution a classed Team tourney through the week and an unclassed Individual tourney on the weekend. Have 3 classes, Start the seed meeting for the Team tourney on the Thursday before sectionals week. Tounament varies on the number of schools you have. It would be a single elemination team tournament. Example- 8 team secional Tuesday have 4 teams at two locations first location 1 vs 8 4 vs 5 winners then wrestle Second location 3 vs 6 2 vs 7 winners then wrestle On Thursday Winner location 1 Vs Location 2 Winner goes to team regionals You keep your True Individual Champion And you get the Class Team champions (Only 3) Sounds Fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptankers Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Forget even semi-state. At Sectionals small school have trouble competing as a team not individuals as a team. Wrestling is a TEAM sport. You have to compete with someone else not against a clock (swimming , cross country, track, ect.). When you think about it, if you have 5000 student, your chances of producing 14 quality wrestlers is alot higher than a school with 400 students. Here is a solution a classed Team tourney through the week and an unclassed Individual tourney on the weekend. Have 3 classes, Start the seed meeting for the Team tourney on the Thursday before sectionals week. Tounament varies on the number of schools you have. It would be a single elemination team tournament. Example- 8 team secional Tuesday have 4 teams at two locations first location 1 vs 8 4 vs 5 winners then wrestle Second location 3 vs 6 2 vs 7 winners then wrestle On Thursday Winner location 1 Vs Location 2 Winner goes to team regionals You keep your True Individual Champion And you get the Class Team champions (Only 3) Sounds Fair The only problem with this in Indiana is Evansville Mater Dei. The most dominate program the past 25 years is a 2A school. Class sports in Indiana are creating dynaties in the mid-level classes due to private schools. If you class sports and a team wins 3 consecutive titles in the same sport then they should be moved up a class in that sport. Example, Muncie Burris vollyball, Heritage Christian Girls basketball and Mater Dei wrestling(if we had classes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former130 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have noticed that 75% of higher scores on SAT etc. testing are from large schools. We need class testing!!! That one made me laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasbeen130 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I didn't take the time to read much of this thread...and I really could care less about this topic but here are my 2 cents. I went to Avon and their best wrestling teams were when the were a 2a high school. When I was there in the 90's we were 4A and weren't any better than the previous teams and we had the same coaches and facilities. I don't want to take anything away from the more current wrestlers there but even since the school went 5a and got brand new facilities they are not as good as in the 80's....granted they got 2nd in the state tournament teamwise (a fantastic achievement with an admittly favorable draw) but this wasn't by the same scoring as in earlier days. Congratulations to those wrestlers again! Other high schools such as Ben Davis and Decatur Central and Delta were powerhouses and haven't gotten any smaller so shouldn't they be better than all the other small schools? One other thing that came to mind was in the early 90's there was a state finalist that was the only person on his wrestling team...whether he went to the biggest or smallest school in the state it didn't matter. What 1980's Avon team was better than the 2004-05 Avon team, dual meet or individual state scoring system? I would suggest the either the 87 or the 89 team would out point the latter Avon team. I do not have the lineups, but it would be interesting. As I recall those teams were in the top 5 and I don't know it they lost any duals. But there weren't as many duals then either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptankers Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have noticed that 75% of higher scores on SAT etc. testing are from large schools. We need class testing!!! That one made me laugh! Laugh all you want, but large schools have more resources so they do produce more successful academic students as well as athletic students. AP classes don't exist at small schools so the kids are not as ready for college. Does that mean you can't have a really successful academic or wrestler from a small school, no but they do it on their own. I am totally against class sports even though it seems I am arguing for them. I still say, let every body win their trophy at the sectional then pool them all back together for all sports. We won't go back but we certainly don't need to class any more stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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