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Class Wrestling?????


devildog47959

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5A- 11 teams-- 10 qual = .9 per team

4A- 14 teams-- 12 qual = .85 per team

3A-14 teams-- 17 qual= 1.2 per team

2A-17 teams-- 10 qual= .58 per team

1A- 19 teams-- 7 qual= .36 per team

____

77 teams

 

So by my calculation the 1A teams should have more kids at state because there are simply more of them there.

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The numbers can be manipulated any way you want to prove whatever you want to prove.  The bottom line is, there are several small school kids that are good enough to be state qualifiers and it has nothing to do with weather or not they go to a big school or not.  It has everything to do with the ability, effort desire, hard work and mental toughness.  Those are combined qualities that some have and some don't and has nothing to with the size of the school they go to.

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I go to Delphi, we didn't have a 103 until about a month into the season. First, it took forever to find a kid that was 103 and that would wrestle and second, it took him a little while to be an average wrestler. I am now the 103 for Delphi and I qualified for regionals. I  decided to cut down from 115 to be 103 for our team. I knocked out the other kid from the varsity spot. What I'm trying to say is, I'm not for class for individuals but for team yes because at a school like Crown Point you have 2200 kids/50 might be 103/25 might be males/3 want to wrestle. At Delphi 500 kids/10 might be 103/5 might be males/1 wants to wrestle. I may be mistaken when I say this but if I'm guessing you guys went to a big city school and don't know what it's like at a small farm school like Delphi.

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So the 1A kids and coaches don't have effort, desire, hard work or mental toughness huh? 

 

Yes I know that they do, but the other key is ABILITY.  There are going to be more kids with the ability to go along with the other things at the bigger schools.  That is statisically obvious.   Just because you have hard work, effort, mental toughness doesent mean you will be a state qualifier.  The ability thing is an important ingrediant.

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So go to a small school near you and go up to their coach and kids and tell them they don't have any ability to make it to state. 

 

If a kid can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time I would find it difficult to believe that he has the athlettic ability to achieve certain things no matter how much hard work, effort, desire etc... and no matter if he is at big or small school.

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you had a 215 htere ..most likely tons of them they just didn't want to wrestle.  I think what jonesy is saying  is that the 5a schools have 100 kids they can talk to to get in the room.  small schools may be have 1 or 2 kids they can approach...

 

 

At Pioneer our 8th grade class has 65 kids in it. I have 7 wrestlers out of those 65 kids (both boys and girls). We have 1 kid that is under 103 in that class he tried wrestled as a 4th grader and didn't like it ... we have been hounding him to gegt in the room we finally got him in there and we hope he stays, but he is the only kid we have to get out for a 103 next season.

 

in the freshman group there are 3 kids that small 1 was our 103 this past season 1st year wrestler btw... and two others that play round ball...see they don't cut 4'8 - 90 pound freshman at pioneer when it comes to basketball...they cut the 5'3 -125 senior...they only cut seniors ...so they lead these kids on for 3 yeas first

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you had a 215 htere ..most likely tons of them they just didn't want to wrestle.  I think what jonesy is saying  is that the 5a schools have 100 kids they can talk to to get in the room.  small schools may be have 1 or 2 kids they can approach...

 

 

At Pioneer our 8th grade class has 65 kids in it. I have 7 wrestlers out of those 65 kids (both boys and girls). We have 1 kid that is under 103 in that class he tried wrestled as a 4th grader and didn't like it ... we have been hounding him to gegt in the room we finally got him in there and we hope he stays, but he is the only kid we have to get out for a 103 next season.

 

in the freshman group there are 3 kids that small 1 was our 103 this past season 1st year wrestler btw... and two others that play round ball...see they don't cut 4'8 - 90 pound freshman at pioneer when it comes to basketball...they cut the 5'3 -125 senior...they only cut seniors ...so they lead these kids on for 3 yeas first

 

That is a good example of why the TEAM portion of the state tournament should be considered for classes.

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Would not say our program is broke being that we have kids placing frequently and have been in the team rankings regularly and for the most part place well at team tournaments and have a above average dual record and place top three in our sectional past 6 years or so.. Just showing you guys that somewhat successful 5A programs have problems getting kids out for wrestling too.. The kids that we get, we develop them into pretty good wrestlers.. Problem is we dont get alot of kids out for one reason or another (basketball, ineligibility, laziness of kids these days, Middle school program is struggling because MS coach does a horrible job). So we are now going the youth program route.. That is where you build a consistent program year in and year out regardless of SIZE of school..  ;D

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So go to a small school near you and go up to their coach and kids and tell them they don't have any ability to make it to state. 

 

An individual at a small school has the exact same opportunities to make it to state as a big school.  But the odds are 3x more individuals with the natural talent will be at a big school.  It is not, however, the size of the school that is causing an individual to have the natural talent.

 

Do you agree or disagree?

 

With that in mind, if individuals from big schools had some advantage just by virtue of the fact that they are from a big school that outweighed any advantages/disadvantages an individual from a small school has, it would skew the numbers so that there would be more qualifiers from big schools than could be predicted by the probability of where natural talent will happen to be.  Your numbers indicate that there is no such advantage.  Big schools are likely to have 3x as much of the natural talent and have 3x the number of individual state qualifiers.  Therefore, factoring in all the advantages/disadvantages of being from a big school and all the advantages/disadvantages of being from a small school, it all appears to balance out (big schools don't have more qualifiers than would be predicted just based on the probable distribution of natural talent).  

 

Do you agree or disagree?  

 

Do you agree that an individual without any wrestling experience prior to high school from Garrett, South Adams, Bluffton, or Yorktown is more likely to be developed into a state qualifier than an individual without experience prior to high school from Marion?

 

What about an individual with experience prior to high school from Garrett, South Adams, Bluffton, or Yorktown (because those programs have middle school programs and USA clubs) versus an individual with no experience from Marion?

 

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Would not say our program is broke being that we have kids placing frequently and have been in the team rankings regularly and for the most part place well at team tournaments and have a above average dual record and place top three in our sectional past 6 years or so.. Just showing you guys that somewhat successful 5A programs have problems getting kids out for wrestling too.. The kids that we get, we develop them into pretty good wrestlers.. Problem is we dont get alot of kids out for one reason or another (basketball, ineligibility, laziness of kids these days, Middle school program is struggling because MS coach does a horrible job). So we are now going the youth program route.. That is where you build a consistent program year in and year out regardless of SIZE of school..  ;D

You keep harping on the fact that you can't get more than 20 kids out for the team.  Obviously you are saying that something is broke or you wouldn't be complaining about it. 

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Just giving you the point of view of a 5A school that struggles to get kids out as well.... Are you saying your program is broke because you are complaining to have class wrestling.. instead of complaining, I look to find ways to approach things in a different way.. I have never once stated that I want to change something in order to give my program a better chance to win than what the current system that is in place.. Having a state champion, 2 runners up last year, 3 advancing to state this year, if our program is broke as you say, then what do you call teams that dont get anyone out of sectional/regional?

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tspray were you directing your last comment towards me?  ;D

 

Y2 i was just wondering what you called a program that does not get any kids out of sectionals/regionals.. You directed a statement saying that our program was broke. Just want to know your opinion of programs that get no one to state.. Can you give me that? LOL the fun thing is we can laugh and joke about this at state on friday and saturday Y2.. I'm kind of upset that McCray did not make it thru.. I was pulling for him to make it to conseco this year after coaching him at fargo this summer..

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I want class wrestling for the kids and for the health of the sport, not for my team or any team in particular. 

 

I have never said my program is broke.  This isn't about my program, its about the kids and the health of the sport at 155 small school teams. 

 

You want class wrestling but you think that by adding a fourth place finisher at regional would water down the competition.  It seems like your talking oout both sides of you mouth!

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OK here goes..Class wrestling only for teams. Two classes split down the middle of enrollment, but.any school can bump up to the larger class for a 2-3 year period. No class for individual. As a coach here in Az. told me yesterday, I am a victim of the system. 6 classes brought on by football coaches who all wanted to be state chanps and the Az  athletic association made it mandatory in all sports. Win 7 matches over two weeks and you are a state champion. Are there outstanding kids in all classes you bet! Is the state tournament diluted? Sure thing! Are the coaches happy about the way it is? NO! For the life of me I just can't see what would be so terrible about bringing another 8 schools and communities to a team state wrestling finals. More people, more excitement, and a chance for the small enrollment teams to get a chance for some bragging rights.

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