NickS Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What's the opinion of the strength of Indiana High School Wrestling as a whole? How does it compare now to 5 years, 10 years, 15 years ago? Also what about the strength of teams? Mater Dei won every team state up to 2003. Since then, 3 different teams have won state with Mater Dei not even advancing this year. Is it because Mater Dei is down or have other programs risen to meet that level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2016GrecoGold Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think MD is down and other programs have risen at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutsdad Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think MD is down and other programs have risen at the same time. I agree, more programs are getting better!! Every year more and more teams are coming up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Wrestling state wide is UP. Just because a program or two are in decline actually makes the entire state better if you think about it. With more and more teams able to compete on what is becoming a more level playing field, the possibility for higher interest and increasing numbers of wrestlers is there. With that increase in wrestlers comes increased possibilities of quality! The domination of the state by 3 or 4 teams has done nothing but stiffle interest in the sport from both a spectator and, more importantly, a new competitors stand point. Let's face it, who wants to check the web or (if you're lucky the newspapaer) and see how much one of these 4 teams won by every year? All that does is tell the kids "Why Try"? I don't agree with that attitude, but you know it is the over all attitude. Parity breeds increased competition, which breeds greater interest. If you don't believe that, consider this: This years Superbowl featured the Steelers - now 6 time champs, and the Cardinals - first timers. It was a GREAT GAME, but more importantly the most watched Superbowl EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 My question is, are we up based on our parity or up due to our increased talent base...I'll give you the parity, but i think as a whole, our overall talent is down this year. (...bring on the boos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think its talking just HS but you are correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 My question is, are we up based on our parity or up due to our increased talent base...I'll give you the parity, but i think as a whole, our overall talent is down this year. (...bring on the boos) I think it is more evenly distributed (not the right word) these days. As with most anything in nature, it takes longer to increase than it does to decrease. The most interesting thing in this discussion is the assumption that some programs are anywhere near the level of competition they were 5 years ago. Fact is they have been in a slow, yet noticable, decline over that period of time. They just happened to have the numbers to stay ahead of other programs on the rise. Are they going to crumble and disappear? Of course not. Are they the sole reason other teams are getting stronger - of course not. It is fantastic to look at the Southern Indiana Atheletic Conference Tourney and see almost HALF of the teams with a legit shot at winning it. In years past it was Mater Dei lining up 14 in the finals and wrestling the best of the rest of the conference. It made for one BORING day of wrestling (if there is such a thing). The last few years, that margin has gotten closer and closer and is now one of the most eagerly anticipated events on the wrestling calendar for local wrestling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I would say the overall state of wrestling here in the state has increased over the past few years. We now have more outside wrestling schools then ever before, i.e. CIA, Team Champion, Red Cobra, and the like. That has to do nothing but help our wrestlers get better. Do we have as many guys like Escebedo, Tsirtsis, Mauer, Howe and some of the other greats of the past few years, no, but those were exceptional wresters for any era. All in all, the entire state is being lifted up. You can see that by the number of kids we have that move onto the next level. If you look at an overall ability you will see an increase in talent level. As far as the current year, we have some boys wrestling now that would hold thier own against any era, any of you want to bet against Quiroga, or Wright, or Harper ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 There are a lot of REALLY good college wrestlers from our state. It would not be surprising if we had multiple national champs from our state this year. It would be a huge surprise if we had multiple national champs from IN. Escobedo is too banged up to repeat, I have a hard time believing that Tsirtsis will be able to get off bottom in crunch time, Kinser may AA, but he won't win, Howe is probably a year away. Right now, I'd say Humphrey has the best shot, but he's in a very deep, tough weight class. I guess if the stars aligned properly we could get multiple champs, but it's very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 It is fantastic to look at the Southern Indiana Atheletic Conference Tourney and see almost HALF of the teams with a legit shot at winning it. In years past it was Mater Dei lining up 14 in the finals and wrestling the best of the rest of the conference. It made for one BORING day of wrestling (if there is such a thing). The last few years, that margin has gotten closer and closer and is now one of the most eagerly anticipated events on the wrestling calendar for local wrestling! No way does half the SIAC have a legit shot at winning the conference. It's basically MD and Castle at this point with Memorial and Reitz fighting it out for a distant 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbulldog152 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 well this could help decide on how much better Indiana is getting... this weekend U of I wrestled University of the Cumberlands and David Lopez who never made state in Indiana beat a 2X Michiagan State champ. you can look at it any way you want but that's impessive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Michigan had a girl make it to state.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I would say that the overall strength of high school wrestling in the south is improving. Exceptional individuals are always around in any era, but the overall (average, if you will) strength is growing. I believe this is probably due to larger and better developed youth programs, better coaching, etc. One of the challenges that many high school coaches face is getting kids to wrestle. There are a lot of big schools in our area that can barely fill a varsity line-up, much less a JV line-up. Depth has always been a strength of Mater Dei. Bluebolt is correct that parity is good in that coaches are better able to convince kids to keep at it because there is not an unstoppable force. So improved program strength from the K-8 levels leads to improved high school strength which leads to greater success at that level (parity) which leads to a deeper program. It all starts from the head coach and his stable of assistants and volunteers. You are seeing this in the region and Indy area schools. I think that is the direction that the SIAC and surrounding schools are heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbulldog152 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Michigan had a girl make it to state.... This is because Michigan has CLASS Wrestling. inf act They have 4 class... if it was one Division she might not can even made it to what would be our Semi-state... I think they call it district or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyourbase Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Michigan had a girl make it to state.... This is because Michigan has CLASS Wrestling. inf act They have 4 class... if it was one Division she might not can even made it to what would be our Semi-state... I think they call it district or something like that Booooo to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Among many other reasons, considering that Team Indiana Gold finished as runners-up at the Brute Scholastic Duals, I would say the state of Indiana wrestling is pretty decent. Jason Bryant is quoted as saying it was, by far, the best Indiana team he had ever seen. Guys like Atwood, Mosier, Wright, Quiroga and McMurray all went undefeated at the Duals. Check into their competition--they faced some of the very best wrestlers in the country. Duckworth majored and very nearly teched a New Jersey runner-up who New Jersians say gave Scott Winston his best match. We have a reigning Cadet National champ (Wright), a Freshman Nationals champ (Roach), a Sophomore Nationals runner-up (Duckworth) and numerous placers in many prestigious national events. We have a reigning 7th place finisher (Lovejoy) who beat nationally ranked stud Shane Gentry. Our depth is as good as it's been in recent memory: Wright, Eppert, Chalfant, Duckworth, McMurray, Porras, Napules, Harper, Sandefer, Shrewsbury, Atwood, Quiroga, Brooks, Hawkins, Tsirtsis, Dillon, March, Mosier, Runyan, Sims, Baker....all of these guys (and others) have had national success. There are literally too many good wrestlers to list. I can't recall a time quite like this in recent years. There may not be a Howe, Tsirtsis or Escobedo (key words are 'may not'), but there are many, many national caliber wrestlers currently competing in our state who will be heard from after they graduate from high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhomburg Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Among many other reasons, considering that Team Indiana Gold finished as runners-up at the Brute Scholastic Duals, I would say the state of Indiana wrestling is pretty decent. Jason Bryant is quoted as saying it was, by far, the best Indiana team he had ever seen. Guys like Atwood, Mosier, Wright, Quiroga and McMurray all went undefeated at the Duals. Check into their competition--they faced some of the very best wrestlers in the country. Duckworth majored and very nearly teched a New Jersey runner-up who New Jersians say gave Scott Winston his best match. We have a reigning Cadet National champ (Wright), a Freshman Nationals champ (Roach), a Sophomore Nationals runner-up (Duckworth) and numerous placers in many prestigious national events. We have a reigning 7th place finisher (Lovejoy) who beat nationally ranked stud Shane Gentry. Our depth is as good as it's been in recent memory: Wright, Eppert, Chalfant, Duckworth, McMurray, Porras, Napules, Harper, Sandefer, Shrewsbury, Atwood, Quiroga, Brooks, Hawkins, Tsirtsis, Dillon, March, Mosier, Runyan, Sims, Baker....all of these guys (and others) have had national success. There are literally too many good wrestlers to list. I can't recall a time quite like this in recent years. There may not be a Howe, Tsirtsis or Escobedo (key words are 'may not'), but there are many, many national caliber wrestlers currently competing in our state who will be heard from after they graduate from high school. When I seen that you were the last one to post on this thread I KNEW I had to read this. You know as much about the level of wrestling in this state as anyone else and I always look forward to what you have to say about the best that Indiana has to offer. I was sort of SHOCKED when Fabio claimed he thought wrestling was down this year. Top to bottom there is more depth than ever if you look across the state. I could not agree more with you Dingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naco228 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Unfortunately, wrestling is only the 6th most popular sport for boys in the country :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Wrestling is too hard for most boys. That will always curtail popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb25 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 There are a lot of REALLY good college wrestlers from our state. It would not be surprising if we had multiple national champs from our state this year. It would be a huge surprise if we had multiple national champs from IN. Escobedo is too banged up to repeat, I have a hard time believing that Tsirtsis will be able to get off bottom in crunch time, Kinser may AA, but he won't win, Howe is probably a year away. Right now, I'd say Humphrey has the best shot, but he's in a very deep, tough weight class. I guess if the stars aligned properly we could get multiple champs, but it's very unlikely. Well multiple is two. I don't think it would be a huge suprise with a returning champ another guy who was ranked first and a guy who is ranked second. That being said, it would also not be surprising if we had none. My point is that our state has produced some really competitive guys recently whereas we had very few competitive wrestlers in NCAA 5, 10, 15 years ago. I can't think of any that I know of that were the elite. I don't know what you would consider elite but guys like Campbell, Palmer, Ginther, Zirklebach, Sacksteder,Traviola, Keith Davidson, and Kelvin Jackson all had pretty good DI careers about 15 years ago. Not to mention Ellis and McCubbins whose careers were shortened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Michigan had a girl make it to state.... This is because Michigan has CLASS Wrestling. inf act They have 4 class... if it was one Division she might not can even made it to what would be our Semi-state... I think they call it district or something like that Michigan has actually had a few girls in the past that have been fairly tough and decent wrestlers. Class wrestling has nothing to do with their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget5589 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Wrestling is too hard for most boys. That will always curtail popularity. thats exactly why once they get to the high school level, all the "boys" quit and only the young men remain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Wrestling is too hard for most boys. That will always curtail popularity. thats exactly why once they get to the high school level, all the "boys" quit and only the young men remain Best quote I've seen, have it on my wall: "Wrestling: What men do during boy's basketball season." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroyleahcim Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 midget5589 you hit the nail on the head, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy74 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Among many other reasons, considering that Team Indiana Gold finished as runners-up at the Brute Scholastic Duals, I would say the state of Indiana wrestling is pretty decent. Jason Bryant is quoted as saying it was, by far, the best Indiana team he had ever seen. Guys like Atwood, Mosier, Wright, Quiroga and McMurray all went undefeated at the Duals. Check into their competition--they faced some of the very best wrestlers in the country. Duckworth majored and very nearly teched a New Jersey runner-up who New Jersians say gave Scott Winston his best match. We have a reigning Cadet National champ (Wright), a Freshman Nationals champ (Roach), a Sophomore Nationals runner-up (Duckworth) and numerous placers in many prestigious national events. We have a reigning 7th place finisher (Lovejoy) who beat nationally ranked stud Shane Gentry. Our depth is as good as it's been in recent memory: Wright, Eppert, Chalfant, Duckworth, McMurray, Porras, Napules, Harper, Sandefer, Shrewsbury, Atwood, Quiroga, Brooks, Hawkins, Tsirtsis, Dillon, March, Mosier, Runyan, Sims, Baker....all of these guys (and others) have had national success. There are literally too many good wrestlers to list. I can't recall a time quite like this in recent years. There may not be a Howe, Tsirtsis or Escobedo (key words are 'may not'), but there are many, many national caliber wrestlers currently competing in our state who will be heard from after they graduate from high school. I'm with Dingo. That was probably best Team Indiana Gold at Scholastic Duals ever last year. Fabio.... do you care to elaborate on why you have your opinion that Indiana wrestling is down this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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