ENoblewrestling Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 As I look at the semi-state rankings it is really interesting because in a lot of situations it doesn't matter how good the 3rd or 4th ranked guy is because he may get a draw where he gets the second best guy in the Semi-state in the ticket round. Its obvious each year that some of the best guys dont make it to state because of the draw that they get, so which is more important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSanta Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It depends on how bad of a Draw. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 As I look at the semi-state rankings it is really interesting because in a lot of situations it doesn't matter how good the 3rd or 4th ranked guy is because he may get a draw where he gets the second best guy in the Semi-state in the ticket round. Its obvious each year that some of the best guys dont make it to state because of the draw that they get, so which is more important? I think dis subject has been discussed many a time " wrasle backs " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booker T Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Very true rat....It happens every year...You see kids that are ranked in the top 4 or 5 all season end up getting bumped out in the ticket round...Usually it's due to having another stud in their regional and taking second, or drawing the regional that has multiple top guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0341 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I don't get the argument, the top four get out right? Well then it shouldn't matter what draw or who you wrestle, the better wrestler wins, the top four move on. Seems pretty simple to me, the topic should be can we use the draw as a reason why we didn't get out of semistate. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No, the top 4 guys do not always get out. The draw does make a difference without wrestlebacks. I cite again the case of Jimmy Schoettle last year. He wins the regional and enters the semi state with a 42-1 record (only loss to Brandon Wright). The Pendelton Heights regional final has #1 Camden Eppert vs #2 Brandon Wright, so one of the other regional champs feeding into New Castle gets the loser of that match. As it turned out, #4 Jimmy Schoettle draws now #2 Eppert and his season is done. I hope this explains it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 0341, You are incorrect. The top 4 do NOT get out. The top 1 from each quarter bracket gets to go to state. There have been times when 2 of the best wrestlers in the state are at the same regional. The runner-up then gets randomly placed with another regional champ who could be another top wrestler in the state (ex. Jimmy Schoettle last year with Eppert and Wright). So, a wrestler who is obviously better than some of the state qualifiers from the same semistate could still be left out simply because of a bad draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget5589 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 another from last year, the guy thats owned 215 this year didnt make at 189 last year cuz he lost by 1 to the eventual state champ in ticket round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARSMAN Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Draws can cripple a wrestler's chances at state with the current semi-state structure. Taylor Vieck lost to eventual state champ Orrin Kleinhanz at semistate and then came back to win state the next year. This is another example of the talent that get bumped out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
152160hasbeen Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If your the best it's all about talent! If your anything other than that it comes down to draw! So basically for about 14 guys it's about talent....for the rest it's really about the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Talent wil get you to State it will give you a medal. But alot of times at Merrillville a Draw can Cripple a Kid. This isn't a knock but if you not a Regional Champ you want to go through Logansport. South Bend, Crown Point and Calumet always produce Mulitple Finalist. Once again this isn't a knock to Logansport Regional I think they had a great Showing last season and should do great this year. But really that is the Way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I would say it comes down to both. You have to have the talent to get to a point in the tourney where the draw can make a difference. Each year there are ticket round matches that would be great semi-finals if held the next week at Conseco. This year there will be 5-6 ticket round matches that will garner alot of talk on this board the week leading up to semi-state. There will be quite a few that will happen at the regional round, and come Friday night at state, a few people will get paired up for matches that should come later on Saturday. So I will not mention what this screams for, it is not like anyone actually listens anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If Draw didn't matter there would be talk of wrestle Backs at the Semi State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIACwrestler Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 another example is tonte drawing cashe last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2016GrecoGold Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Draws can cripple a wrestler's chances at state with the current semi-state structure. Taylor Vieck lost to eventual state champ Orrin Kleinhanz at semistate and then came back to win state the next year. This is another example of the talent that get bumped out... Vieck was a monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Talent is what gets you there....that being said...the luck of the draw is always a factor. It's what you do when you've got talent and get a "bad" draw that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutsdad Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Last year "Nut" did get a good draw, and some people were mad about it, but in the match for 3rd and 4th he beat the guy that put them out!!! The people that were saying stuff about him getting a good draw is what I'm talking about!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No one can blame it all on the draw. In fact, like we've seen time and time again, ANYTHING can happen in wrestling! No one can blame a kid for his "draw", that's , as they say, "just the way the cookie crumbles!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 You won't get to SS without the talent, but if 2 of the top three kids in the SS are in the same regional, and the runner up draws the best other regional champ, then the draw screws one of those two kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-train Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 60% talent, 40% draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former130 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I would say mental toughness is as important as talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Kendrick Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Jankowski vs. Rosbottom in 1999. that match should have been wrestled under lights at MSA instead it was the ticket round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget5589 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Talent wil get you to State it will give you a medal. But alot of times at Merrillville a Draw can Cripple a Kid. This isn't a knock but if you not a Regional Champ you want to go through Logansport. South Bend, Crown Point and Calumet always produce Mulitple Finalist. Once again this isn't a knock to Logansport Regional I think they had a great Showing last season and should do great this year. But really that is the Way it is. if your listing regionals this ones in laporte not crown point, unless it changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Talent outweighs the draw, this is only my opinion with no proof to back it up. I'd say about 70-75% of the kids that make state get there because they're the more talented. So that leaves about 25-30% that were more talented but either were 1) upsetted or 2) bad semi-state draw. The reason the "ticket round" gets such a bad rap is because we hear and talk about all the bad draws that do happen. But I'd say that the majority of the time, there aren't bad draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Jankowski vs. Rosbottom in 1999. that match should have been wrestled under lights at MSA instead it was the ticket round. And it would have had Rosbottomenot been defeated at regionals. This is a very interesting argument. If the question is only about the best, then it is talent. If it is about having the best 8 wrestlers place, then draw comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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