edgewin Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Before everyone jumps the gun, let me make a few things clear. A) I am not talking about my kid I know that wrestling is a tough sport. Things get rough. Now, my question is related to an incident that happened at a dual meet recently. A notable wrestler, who clearly would have won this match, fish-hooked his opponent (no, it was not an accident)- causing a large crescent shaped cut inside the mouth, that took the wrestler out of the room and off the mat for this weekend. People have told me that they have seen this wrestler do this on other occasions. I know this kid, I have always liked him.... but I don't stomach a cheat. In your opinion, should the coaches of the injured wrestler push for some sort of sanction against the guy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Before everyone jumps the gun, let me make a few things clear. A) I am not talking about my kid I know that wrestling is a tough sport. Things get rough. Now, my question is related to an incident that happened at a dual meet recently. A notable wrestler, who clearly would have won this match, fish-hooked his opponent (no, it was not an accident)- causing a large crescent shaped cut inside the mouth, that took the wrestler out of the room and off the mat for this weekend. People have told me that they have seen this wrestler do this on other occasions. I know this kid, I have always liked him.... but I don't stomach a cheat. In your opinion, should the coaches of the injured wrestler push for some sort of sanction against the guy?? I would have to actually witness the incident myself to form an opinion. I have heard so many stories about "this guy did this" or "that guy does this" that I just can't stress enough the importance of NOT damning a person without first hand knowledge of the incident. IF this case is as you have posted it, then yes, the young man in question needs to be dealt with. But only the coaches and the young man, his parents, and the school's AD and/or Administration need be involved. Everyone else needs to stay out of the whole thing or it will become VERY ugly for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Before everyone jumps the gun, let me make a few things clear. A) I am not talking about my kid I know that wrestling is a tough sport. Things get rough. Now, my question is related to an incident that happened at a dual meet recently. A notable wrestler, who clearly would have won this match, fish-hooked his opponent (no, it was not an accident)- causing a large crescent shaped cut inside the mouth, that took the wrestler out of the room and off the mat for this weekend. People have told me that they have seen this wrestler do this on other occasions. I know this kid, I have always liked him.... but I don't stomach a cheat. In your opinion, should the coaches of the injured wrestler push for some sort of sanction against the guy?? How was the incident delt with by the referee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgewin Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 The referee gave a point for unsportaman like - but said he "didn't see" the incident. You don't have to witness THE bite in a match, yet if you can see the teeth imprints the referee can disqualify !! It was obvious from the wound what had occured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If this kid has a history of this type of behavior and this was not an isolated incident, hopefully the coaches are dealing with the problem. If you feel that the coaches are ignoring the problem, I would suggest that the AD get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Culp Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The referee gave a point for unsportaman like - but said he "didn't see" the incident. You don't have to witness THE bite in a match, yet if you can see the teeth imprints the referee can disqualify !! It was obvious from the wound what had occured. What bite are you talking about? The unsportsman like conduct came when they went out of bounds and your wrestler was shoved off. I agreed with the call as it was a late and unnesessary push, the referee told the wrestler what he did wrong when they returned to the center of the mat. The fishhook you are talking about, I did not witness, but have heard about. Our wrestler says it was an accident, I have to take his word. But you obviously have to take your wrestler's word. There was no BITE involved though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think he was using that as an example, not that there was anactual bite in the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Culp Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hey Blane, I'm buddies with Jamison. Where you coaching at nowadays? Jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Where does one hide a fishhook? Has to be in the shoe. What if your trying to get to that fishhook and the barb gets stuck, you can't get them out for nothing. ff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Where does one hide a fishhook? Has to be in the shoe. What if your trying to get to that fishhook and the barb gets stuck, you can't get them out for nothing. ff You Sir, Are Just NOT Right... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogleg Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Where does one hide a fishhook? Has to be in the shoe. What if your trying to get to that fishhook and the barb gets stuck, you can't get them out for nothing. ff Abdullah the Butcher used to hide a foreign object in his mouth, so that may be an option also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCFIGHTER170 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I only had one match where I experience Unsportsman like conduct to the full degree! My senior year I was beating John Schmaltz of Cathedral by like 7 or 8...and the full prick came out in him first getting penalized for trying to literally BREAK my fingers off haha then at the end of the match throwing an elbow blantantly when when I had top control. He was ejected from the meet and couldnt wrestle in his Conferance meet the following weekend I believe! New Castle and Cathedral just love eachother...Guess thats why we bout had a all out BRAWL EVERY year at the Cathedral Duals haha...Did I mention he was making Vulgar remarks to Peck haha...Oh well he got Majored anyways ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 As grandma used to say, this (unfortunately) means somebody's momma didn't raise them right. I have seen too many excellent wrestlers succeed with great character to tolerate that type of behavior. For a kid to tell me that fishhooks was an accident (especially if it wasn't the first time) is a kid telling me that he thinks I am an idiot and will hide behind the "well your MY guy and I gotta believe you? DUH!" Kids need boundaries and to play stupid tells them that it's OK, the end justifies the means. When my son was young(er) he came off the field in a youth football game and threw his helmet. As I drug him to the car, he tried to tell me he "dropped" it. He was BS'ing, we both new it and as painful as it was for both of us I could not tolerate it. To this day, he may unsnap his chin strap at half time, but other then that it stays on. This one isn't mine to deal with (I have enough of my own) but I can say that a coach, parent or fan that says they have take the word of a teenager despite what they know and see, is in for a long road. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Having actually had a ref tell me after a match "I saw him biting you, but you were up by 12 so I let it go" (and that is a QUOTE), while literally looking right out a dental impression from my opponant in my left forearm, I can only say this... The mat is the REF''S mat during a given match. If a ref choses to let something go, he has the ability to do that. We may not like it, and obviously ref's have an obligation to call what they see, but it's up to their call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Culp Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Now, my question is related to an incident that happened at a dual meet recently. A notable wrestler, who clearly would have won this match, fish-hooked his opponent (no, it was not an accident)- causing a large crescent shaped cut inside the mouth, that took the wrestler out of the room and off the mat for this weekend. People have told me that they have seen this wrestler do this on other occasions. I know this kid, I have always liked him.... but I don't stomach a cheat. In your opinion, should the coaches of the injured wrestler push for some sort of sanction against the guy?? Sorry to bring this up again, but I have helped coach this kid for the last few years and Im not sure what you are talking about on the multiple occasions either. Please explain. I know hes a big physical wrestler, but I have not really seen anything dirty from him. And yes Awood1 I will stand behind my wrestler as I don't believe he did this on purpose. We have other coaches that are on our coaching staff that if they found it to be on purpose, this wrestler would have a "meeting in the office." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Having actually had a ref tell me after a match "I saw him biting you, but you were up by 12 so I let it go" (and that is a QUOTE), while literally looking right out a dental impression from my opponant in my left forearm, I can only say this... The mat is the REF''S mat during a given match. If a ref choses to let something go, he has the ability to do that. We may not like it, and obviously ref's have an obligation to call what they see, but it's up to their call. It is their job to make the call. The ref can not allow unsportsmanlike behavior, that he see's, to happen. This would allow things to get out of hand very quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The mat is the REF''S mat during a given match. If a ref choses to let something go, he has the ability to do that. We may not like it, and obviously ref's have an obligation to call what they see, but it's up to their call. So when did IHSAA wrestling become the WWE? I believe there are some very defined rules in the rule book as to what is and is not acceptable. Biting, elbowing, and blatant punches are not acceptable under any situation. It is a refs job to immediately stop the match when he sees one of these things occuring and eject the wrestler performing such acts. If the ref does not do this then if something big blows up it is his fault. Any ref who does not protect the wrestlers from such harm has no buisness being on the mat in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Need to start teaching the fishhook counter: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counting Lights Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The fishhook counter would work. But if a wrestler is dirty enough to try that particular move, who knows whats next. Behavior in sporting events, and everywhere else, starts at home. Its my opinion that it also should end there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The mat is the REF''S mat during a given match. If a ref choses to let something go, he has the ability to do that. We may not like it, and obviously ref's have an obligation to call what they see, but it's up to their call. So when did IHSAA wrestling become the WWE? I believe there are some very defined rules in the rule book as to what is and is not acceptable. Biting, elbowing, and blatant punches are not acceptable under any situation. It is a refs job to immediately stop the match when he sees one of these things occuring and immediately stop the match and eject the wrestler performing such acts. If the ref does not do this then if something big blows up it is his fault. Any ref who does not protect the wrestlers from such harm has no buisness being on the mat in the first place. Looks like we're gonna need refs to ref the refs. ff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guru Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Need to start teaching the fishhook counter: The direct counter to the fish hook is the eye gouge. If that technique isn't there, you hammer fist to the ballzac region. Remember to teach your youngsters, look away from the half-nelson, but in to the fish hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Need to start teaching the fishhook counter: The direct counter to the fish hook is the eye gouge. If that technique isn't there, you hammer fist to the ballzac region. Remember to teach your youngsters, look away from the half-nelson, but in to the fish hook. Once the fishhooks attempt has been made, I shoot straight for the 5 on 2! > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlittlejohn Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The mat is the REF''S mat during a given match. If a ref choses to let something go, he has the ability to do that. We may not like it, and obviously ref's have an obligation to call what they see, but it's up to their call. So when did IHSAA wrestling become the WWE? I believe there are some very defined rules in the rule book as to what is and is not acceptable. Biting, elbowing, and blatant punches are not acceptable under any situation. It is a refs job to immediately stop the match when he sees one of these things occuring and immediately stop the match and eject the wrestler performing such acts. If the ref does not do this then if something big blows up it is his fault. Any ref who does not protect the wrestlers from such harm has no buisness being on the mat in the first place. Looks like we're gonna need refs to ref the refs. ff I thought that was what coaches were for ;D : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justadadnow Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That ref was definately in the wrong. It may not have had an impact on the match, but there are all kinds of infections caused by human biting. It also gave the biter an unreasonable idea that it was ok to bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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