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What if class wrestling....


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I understand your point about having the opportunity to wrestle in the off season and how that would help them with exposure.  However,  I have coached enough kids at small schools that are going all out in baseball or track in the spring and then football in the summer where spring and summer wrestling are just not a good option for them.  If these 3 sport athletes had the opportunity to wrestle on the big stage earlier in their careers, college coaches that recruit would be able to see them earlier and contact them.  I'm not talking about Big 10 type wrestlers here but places like Trine or Findlay or Wabash.  Many 3 sport athletes I have coached honestly don't know what sport they want to compete in at college until late in their senior year.  This is often too late to be seriously recruited by many colleges. 

 

I dont think a class system would have to last any longer.  I don't believe it extends the season in other states.  I know you are for keeping the system fresh, you and I have similar views on the weight class issues.  I enjoy the back in forth.

 

Your point about a 3 sport athlete not being able to make up his mind until late in his senior season is well taken, and I understand how that can hurt an athletes chances. At a large school, that choice has to be made in the 7th 8th or 9th grade. In a large school, you see very few 3 sport athletes, the competion for varsity spots are so competitive that you must choose sooner then you would at a small school. The athlete at a small school has the chance to make that same choice. 

 

 

Class wrestling is not the way to go for the individule tourney. If they want to put one in for the team event that I could see, but I see no way the IHSAA would ever go to that type of format for wrestling.

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From what I can gather it is percentages that is the main argument for class wrestling, but does that not also hurt their argument. When I look at the number of large school vs small school champions, I see about the same % of champions compared to population. I'm just saying.

 

 

ff

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From what I can gather it is percentages that is the main argument for class wrestling, but does that not also hurt their argument. When I look at the number of large school vs small school champions, I see about the same % of champions compared to population. I'm just saying.

 

But Y2's argument against this is that every school has an equal number of varsity spots, big or small. I tend to disagree with this logic because at the very basic level, bigger schools should be more likely to fill those spots and with better wrestlers. Let me explain using Y2's data of school enrollment here. There are 309 schools accounted for. So for the sake of argument, there are 155 big schools and 154 small schools.

 

Big Schools total enrollment - 232,219 students

Small Schools total enrollment - 73,151 students

 

So since the big schools account for about 76% of all student enrollment. Big schools should have a better wrestler about 3/4 of the time at each weight class then, on average. Just my opinion.

 

Oh, bump by the way. ;D

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From what I can gather it is percentages that is the main argument for class wrestling, but does that not also hurt their argument. When I look at the number of large school vs small school champions, I see about the same % of champions compared to population. I'm just saying.

 

But Y2's argument against this is that every school has an equal number of varsity spots, big or small.  I tend to disagree with this logic because at the very basic level, bigger schools should be more likely to fill those spots and with better wrestlers.  Let me explain using Y2's data of school enrollment here.  There are 309 schools accounted for.  So for the sake of argument, there are 155 big schools and 154 small schools.

 

Big Schools total enrollment - 232,219 students

Small Schools total enrollment - 73,151 students

 

So since the big schools account for about 76% of all student enrollment.  Big schools should have a better wrestler about 3/4 of the time at each weight class then, on average.  Just my opinion.

 

Oh, bump by the way.  ;D

 

This is precisely the reason why most states have class wrestling and the reason why we have class football, etc.  The larger schools have an advantage.

 

Y2's point was in response to people's argument saying that every one is equal no matter what size school they come from.

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I'd like to throw some useless numbers out here based of Ys's data because... well just because I can.

 

Just 8 counties attributed for about half of all the state qualifiers from the past 11 years. In these 8 counties, there are 95 teams. So 95 teams, which is about 30% of all teams, made up about 50% of the state qualifiers. Just looking at Marion and Lake counties, they made up about 24% of the qualifiers with 17% of the teams.

 

Marion - 343

Lake - 237

St. Joseph - 127

Vanderburgh - 127

Allen - 123

Elkhart - 100

Johnson - 82

Porter - 81

 

Hey, maybe we should break up the classes into these counties and then everyone else.

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I'd like to throw some useless numbers out here based of Ys's data because... well just because I can.

 

Just 8 counties attributed for about half of all the state qualifiers from the past 11 years.  In these 8 counties, there are 95 teams.  So 95 teams, which is about 30% of all teams, made up about 50% of the state qualifiers.  Just looking at Marion and Lake counties, they made up about 24% of the qualifiers with 17% of the teams.

 

Marion - 343

Lake - 237

St. Joseph - 127

Vanderburgh - 127

Allen - 123

Elkhart - 100

Johnson - 82

Porter - 81

 

Hey, maybe we should break up the classes into these counties and then everyone else.

 

But aren't Lake and Marion Counties also the most populated counties?  I would bet there is a correlation between the #'s of qualifiers and the county population?

 

P.S. Whenever this conversation starts now I feel like we could really benefit from having the smart brother from that show "numb3rs" in on the discussion!?  CharlieEppes.gif

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In my mind there is no question for the team state we need classes and I would go with atleast 3.  Individual is fine with me the way it is.  To say a small school is on the same level  as a 4-5a school is absurd. 

 

it doesn't make sense that we class everything else for team except sports like wrestling if they have an advantage in 1 sport im pretty sure they have an advantage in all sports. 

 

 

That is the one thing I don't think people get.

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In my mind there is no question for the team state we need classes and I would go with atleast 3.  Individual is fine with me the way it is.  To say a small school is on the same level  as a 4-5a school is absurd. 

 

it doesn't make sense that we class everything else for team except sports like wrestling if they have an advantage in 1 sport im pretty sure they have an advantage in all sports. 

 

 

That is the one thing I don't think people get.

 

Join the club...oh I forgot you are the President. ;D

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From what I can gather it is percentages that is the main argument for class wrestling, but does that not also hurt their argument. When I look at the number of large school vs small school champions, I see about the same % of champions compared to population. I'm just saying.

 

But Y2's argument against this is that every school has an equal number of varsity spots, big or small.  I tend to disagree with this logic because at the very basic level, bigger schools should be more likely to fill those spots and with better wrestlers.  Let me explain using Y2's data of school enrollment here.  There are 309 schools accounted for.  So for the sake of argument, there are 155 big schools and 154 small schools.

 

Big Schools total enrollment - 232,219 students

Small Schools total enrollment - 73,151 students

 

So since the big schools account for about 76% of all student enrollment.  Big schools should have a better wrestler about 3/4 of the time at each weight class then, on average.  Just my opinion.

 

Oh, bump by the way.  ;D

 

This is precisely the reason why most states have class wrestling and the reason why we have class football, etc.  The larger schools have an advantage.

 

Y2's point was in response to people's argument saying that every one is equal no matter what size school they come from.

 

The way I'm looking at it based on those numbers if it was classsed with 2 classess, 1 wrestler out of 5225 students would be crowned a champ for the small schools but 1 out of 16,587 students for the large schools thus giving the small schools a greater % of champs base on enrollment. That doesn't seem fair for the large schools.

 

 

ff

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